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Skating and bonking



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 17th 04, 08:55 PM
Jeff Potter
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Default Skating and bonking

I think it was after the Vasa in 1990 on the big screen at the awards.
Coz in 91 I had my run of good marathons after getting the inspiration.

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:04:23 -0500, Jeff Potter
wrote:

I was inspired particularly by seeing marathon winners
on video just stopping
and drinking multiple cups at every feed.


What races did you see this in? Where can we see the video?


--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
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  #12  
Old February 17th 04, 10:09 PM
Onno Oerlemans
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Default Skating and bonking


Why not master the "herringbone skate"? It's my "granny gear" technique.
I found it to be particularly valuable in the mid-pack crushes on crowded
hills early in the Birkie. I would actually feel like I was getting a

rest.

This is a bit weird, but I seem to have lost the ability to do this on
Sunday. I used to herringbone skate on steep hills to control my exertion,
but when I tried doing this in the Keski I would grind to a complete halt.
This might have been because of the snow, which seemed slower at very slow
speeds (going uphill) than when you actually got some momentum going. I
think this makes sense. Anyway, when I switched to herringbone on very steep
hills, I found that I'd automatically revert back to my regular skate within
10 seconds or so. After this happened a few times, I stopped trying,
thinking only of getting the right ski up and forward to get some real
glide. I should probably work on it again.

Another problem with herringbone skate is that it's much wider than V1. I
try to be conscious of how much of the trail I take up when in a race,
especially when I know there are people behind me. Herringbone seems to take
up a lane and a half. This is another argument for why its easier to control
exertion in classic racing. Because it's easier to pass and be passed, one
is less likely to push the pace when people are behind you, or to knock
yourself out trying to pass people in front of you.

Reading over comments and advice so far (all of it very interesting!) I
think part of the problem was not getting enough food along the way. When
it's cold one must be burning more calories, and yet it's harder to take
them in. My gels were frozen solid, the Cliff bar hard as rock, the granola
and cookies unchewable. I only stopped taking in lots of warm gatoraid late
in the race. I was perhaps overconfident because I'd had a huge dinner (So
Good Chinese restaurant--best Chinese food in Ottawa!!) and a huge breakfast
(Kettleman's Bagels!!!!). Though I felt my legs first, I was massively hungr
y by the last two feeding stations, not a good sign.

Thanks again,

Onno Oerlemans


  #13  
Old February 17th 04, 11:09 PM
Eddy Rapid
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Default Skating and bonking


"Onno Oerlemans" wrote
When
it's cold one must be burning more calories, and yet it's harder to take
them in. My gels were frozen solid, the Cliff bar hard as rock, the

granola
and cookies unchewable. I only stopped taking in lots of warm gatoraid

late
in the race.


For a cold, long ski, here's the "in-flight refueling system" that I use.
It's never failed me:

Carry a little rock climber's chalk pouch attached to a belt and hanging in
front, in my case being right-handed on my right thigh, so that you can
quickly dip into at will, particularly on the downhills. If you use a fanny
pack, or a water bottle holder, or a backpack, then use the belt for that to
thread the chalk pouch. If not , which would be surprising in itself, just
use a light little belt.

Now here comes the critical, and very specific, tip-- contents for the
pouch:

1) get Quaker's Chewy Dips Chocolate Fudge granola bars. These have the
highest calory/gram value, and fat , very important in cold weather, of any
bar. I have never had them freeze. Take them out of their wrapper and cut
them in three segments. For a 50k race you'll need about 4 bars (4 *
171calories = 684 costing 4 * 34 grams = 136 grams of weight with 8.4 grams
of fat per bar. Go compare this to your gels and power bars.)

2) get pre-cooked smoked bacon about 150 grams for a 50 k race, and cut
into easily chewable pieces.

Every half hour or so just dip your fingers into the refueling pouch and get
some of this cold weather endurance, anti-bonking food, that has slow
burning fat as well as pick-me-up glucides. You'll never bonk again. And you
won't loose time messing around with tearing off gels and power bars that
are frozen, etc. etc, which we keep hearing about in RSN.

All that gel and power bar stuff is designed for nambi-pambi summer
athletes. Winter athletes need Parham's, patents-applied-for, "in-flight
refueling system" :-)

Parham.



  #14  
Old February 17th 04, 11:47 PM
Mitch Collinsworth
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Default Skating and bonking


On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Ken Roberts wrote:

I've spent the last month or two working on skating _slow_ up hills. It's
something that can be practiced, and there are some special technique


At least in my experience, when I *finally* took the time to do this,
I found my technique greatly improved at race pace as well. I was
able to ski faster with less effort. Or ski even faster when really
pushing hard. Too bad it took so many years of banging my head against
the proverbial wall to finally figure this out.

-Mitch




  #15  
Old February 17th 04, 11:49 PM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Default Skating and bonking

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:09:32 -0500, "Onno Oerlemans"
wrote:

I only stopped taking in lots of warm gatoraid late
in the race. I was perhaps overconfident
because I'd had a huge dinner (So
Good Chinese restaurant--best Chinese food in Ottawa!!)


What restaurant? There is good Chinese food in that city. We had a
really good meal last year at a place on Dalhousie Street but I am
always on the lookout for good food.

and a huge breakfast
(Kettleman's Bagels!!!!).


For me, the optimal fueling for a long race involves eating and
drinking a lot for several days before the event and the morning of.
THe night before I try to top everything off with a snack that makes
me sleepy and has some calories before bed -- like something with milk
or soymilk.

And then in the morning it is critical for me to have protein and fat
in addition to carbohydrates. Like eggs and a little bit of ham with
bagels.

For the Keskinada I had good morning fueling whcih included three
boiled eggs, a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, a banana, a small
amount (a half a cup) of fried rice from the previous night's meal and
a few tiny pieces of chicken leftovers. And at least 40 ounces of
sports drink and diluted fruit juice.

I say that fueling was good because I only bonked *slightly*, at the
very end of the event....I know I didn't take in enough fuel during
the race. That Gatorade from the feed zones does not seem to have
enough carbs and I only drank half my bottle of thick sports drink due
to the top freezing.

JT
  #16  
Old February 17th 04, 11:54 PM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Default Skating and bonking

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:09:57 -0500, "Eddy Rapid"
wrote:

Quaker's Chewy Dips Chocolate Fudge granola bars


What kind of fat do they have in them?

JT

  #17  
Old February 18th 04, 12:08 AM
Onno Oerlemans
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Default Skating and bonking

Fantastic idea! I'm sold. I'll order a rock climber's chalk pouch today!

Onno

"Eddy Rapid" wrote in message
.. .


Carry a little rock climber's chalk pouch attached to a belt and hanging

in
front, in my case being right-handed on my right thigh, so that you can
quickly dip into at will, particularly on the downhills. If you use a

fanny
pack, or a water bottle holder, or a backpack, then use the belt for that

to
thread the chalk pouch. If not , which would be surprising in itself,

just
use a light little belt.

Now here comes the critical, and very specific, tip-- contents for the
pouch:

1) get Quaker's Chewy Dips Chocolate Fudge granola bars. These have the
highest calory/gram value, and fat , very important in cold weather, of

any
bar. I have never had them freeze. Take them out of their wrapper and cut
them in three segments. For a 50k race you'll need about 4 bars (4 *
171calories = 684 costing 4 * 34 grams = 136 grams of weight with 8.4

grams
of fat per bar. Go compare this to your gels and power bars.)



  #18  
Old February 18th 04, 12:11 AM
Onno Oerlemans
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Posts: n/a
Default Skating and bonking

Hi John:

The name of the great Chinese restaurant is "So Good", which is on Somerset
St, just west of Bronson. It's small, and has a huge vegetarian menu. It's
really excellent. I used to live in Ottawa, and while I haven't tried all
the Chinese restaurants there, it was the best of the many that I did try.

Onno


"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:09:32 -0500, "Onno Oerlemans"
wrote:

I only stopped taking in lots of warm gatoraid late
in the race. I was perhaps overconfident
because I'd had a huge dinner (So
Good Chinese restaurant--best Chinese food in Ottawa!!)


What restaurant? There is good Chinese food in that city. We had a
really good meal last year at a place on Dalhousie Street but I am
always on the lookout for good food.




  #19  
Old February 18th 04, 12:26 AM
Eddy Rapid
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Posts: n/a
Default Skating and bonking


"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote

Quaker's Chewy Dips Chocolate Fudge granola bars


What kind of fat do they have in them?


Oh all the coconut oil, hydrogenated, transfat stuff that you get any
regular candy bar like O-Henry's and such, and would surely kill you, sooner
or later, if you lived on a constant diet of the chocolate fudge bars... But
I don't.


Parham.



  #20  
Old February 18th 04, 01:43 AM
Jeff Potter
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Posts: n/a
Default Skating and bonking

Yeah gentle skiing is very rewarding. Pays off bigtime. I think that's what JD
was pushing us about: he said we can all drool and hammer. He wanted us to ski
SLOW and in control and nicely...a lot more often. Boy, it really helped me
break thru the uphills in marathons. If I'd kept skiing much I coulda kept that
feel going. Now I'm only just now getting it again, and losing it again. Don't
skate much. It's a BIG feel thing.

Mitch Collinsworth wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Ken Roberts wrote:

I've spent the last month or two working on skating _slow_ up hills. It's
something that can be practiced, and there are some special technique


At least in my experience, when I *finally* took the time to do this,
I found my technique greatly improved at race pace as well. I was
able to ski faster with less effort. Or ski even faster when really
pushing hard. Too bad it took so many years of banging my head against
the proverbial wall to finally figure this out.


--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national travel forums! HOLY SMOKES! 800-763-6923


 




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