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#1
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
That's what I'm looking for.
True performance reviews and comparisons. Not just among new products but with the best of the past in mind. I would think that the vast majority of skiers might find such info to be helpful and interesting, as it's the vast majority of skiing. (But who knows, maybe the sport is shifting from ski-anywhere to specialized destination-oriented---it would take a lot of shifting but it could happen! I have gotten some feedback that reps were interested in resorts/classes/rentals in terms of daytouring and personal tastes in terms of tele. An interesting neglect of the backyard daytourist! Maybe I need to find Woody. WOODYYYY!) --JP |
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#2
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:42:49 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: I would think that the vast majority of skiers might find such info to be helpful and interesting, as it's the vast majority of skiing. You've got a logical problem if one one hand you talk about the vast majority and on the other you've got idiosyncratic views of what is right to use - views that don't agree with that people would buy now. |
#3
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Dec 19, 8:42 am, "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)"
wrote: That's what I'm looking for. True performance reviews and comparisons. Not just among new products but with the best of the past in mind. I would think that the vast majority of skiers might find such info to be helpful and interesting, as it's the vast majority of skiing. (But who knows, maybe the sport is shifting from ski-anywhere to specialized destination-oriented---it would take a lot of shifting but it could happen! I have gotten some feedback that reps were interested in resorts/classes/rentals in terms of daytouring and personal tastes in terms of tele. An interesting neglect of the backyard daytourist! Maybe I need to find Woody. WOODYYYY!) --JP I would be interested in this discussion too, but why waste time talking about the best of the past? We want info for future purchases. Nobody wants to know how excellent my 70's era Naronnas were. I like modern boots better. |
#4
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Dec 19, 7:31 pm, Camilo wrote:
On Dec 19, 8:42 am, "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: That's what I'm looking for. True performance reviews and comparisons. Not just among new products but with the best of the past in mind. I would think that the vast majority of skiers might find such info to be helpful and interesting, as it's the vast majority of skiing. (But who knows, maybe the sport is shifting from ski-anywhere to specialized destination-oriented---it would take a lot of shifting but it could happen! I have gotten some feedback that reps were interested in resorts/classes/rentals in terms of daytouring and personal tastes in terms of tele. An interesting neglect of the backyard daytourist! Maybe I need to find Woody. WOODYYYY!) --JP I would be interested in this discussion too, but why waste time talking about the best of the past? We want info for future purchases. It's good to keep a running baseline. For instance, the new midlength skis might will all glide and float with various abilities relative to each other. I'll then want to know how those figures compare to the best of full-length skis from a few years ago. See why old is important? It may be that ski building skill of awhile ago was more advanced than it is today. Maybe highest quality isn't cost effective. Why was my top of line touring ski lighter 17 years ago than the comparable ski today? It was very strong and performed perfectly. Maybe the new midlength skis have measurable benefits. Let's evaluate them...in light of previous best art, as the innovators say. Cycling right now is going thru a phase where they're reclaiming higher quality from previous eras. Especially in terms of versatility and allround geometries. Road bikes that had clearance for plump tires or broken spokes were gone for a few years. They're coming back now. Maybe they're not TdF bikes but they're better for most day-riders. Nobody wants to know how excellent my 70's era Naronnas were. I like modern boots better. We'd want to know about your Naronnas if they were excellent in the sense of being better than modern boots. To appreciate the new-style tour boots with cuffs we'd want to compare them to each other...and to one of the best prior-era boots, to use as a baseline. --JP |
#5
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Dec 19, 7:08 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:42:49 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: I would think that the vast majority of skiers might find such info to be helpful and interesting, as it's the vast majority of skiing. You've got a logical problem if one one hand you talk about the vast majority and on the other you've got idiosyncratic views of what is right to use - views that don't agree with that people would buy now. Why are you so contrary? Point out an idiosyncratic view that I have. My stated standards for skis a glide, flotation, stability, control, weight, reliability, versatility. I'll add price i there just to be safe. And graphic design, too. The Fischer Touring Light Aircore fulllength woodcore ski of 1990 *ROCKED* those values---being good both in and out of track. And basically perfect for homestyle skied-in trails in mellow terrain. I allege this to be the most common ski situation. (It fell back only slightly on graphic design, thankfully just missing out on the 80's Miami Vice green/pink era. Their more recent all-red Country ski seems like a winner with rock-solid graphics. Their new dark blue plus computerized chunks seems an *almost* dull step back, but still semi- OK for design.) That ski is my personal bar to compare other daytour skis to. Others can describe their own. A very UN-idiosyncratic approach. The only "weird" thing it assumes is skier enthusiasm and competence. It assumes the pursuit of a high-end daytour ski. I note that corporate ski values might include mine, but they also include cost of manufacture (and shipping) and market size realities and market ease of service. In the case of daytouring skis this MIGHT put a beginner ski-school ski in a small (?) faraway market ahead of a individualized market for a performance daytouring ski. It might also put a heavy cap ski ahead of a hand made ski. Etc. I *DID* just get word from on high that midlength skis aren't bad. With the caveat to DEMO TIL YA DROP. ...We need more data, obviously. I will gladly demo a midlength! ...And will appreciate other folks' midlength reports. --JP |
#6
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:13:10 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: On Dec 19, 7:08 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:42:49 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: I would think that the vast majority of skiers might find such info to be helpful and interesting, as it's the vast majority of skiing. You've got a logical problem if one one hand you talk about the vast majority and on the other you've got idiosyncratic views of what is right to use - views that don't agree with that people would buy now. Why are you so contrary? Why are you so sloppy with your thinking. Point out an idiosyncratic view that I have. My stated standards for skis a glide, flotation, stability, control, weight, reliability, versatility. I'll add price i there just to be safe. And graphic design, too. The Fischer Touring Light Aircore fulllength woodcore ski of 1990 *ROCKED* those values---being good both in and out of track. Ask yourself a simple question. If they "rocked" in general, why are they not sold today? I'm not saying newer is always better, or the "latest and greatest" stuff is necessarily the best, but ask yourself why is it that you long for stuff that most other people wouldn't use anymore if they have a choice. |
#7
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:39:06 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: It's good to keep a running baseline. For instance, the new midlength skis might will all glide and float with various abilities relative to each other. I'll then want to know how those figures compare to the best of full-length skis from a few years ago. See why old is important? It may be that ski building skill of awhile ago was more advanced than it is today. Maybe highest quality isn't cost effective. Why was my top of line touring ski lighter 17 years ago than the comparable ski today? It was very strong and performed perfectly. Maybe the new midlength skis have measurable benefits. Let's evaluate them...in light of previous best art, as the innovators say. They don't make em like they used to, the good old days, real craftsmanship is dead, blah, blah blah. |
#8
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Dec 19, 11:49 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:39:06 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: It's good to keep a running baseline. For instance, the new midlength skis might will all glide and float with various abilities relative to each other. I'll then want to know how those figures compare to the best of full-length skis from a few years ago. See why old is important? It may be that ski building skill of awhile ago was more advanced than it is today. Maybe highest quality isn't cost effective. Why was my top of line touring ski lighter 17 years ago than the comparable ski today? It was very strong and performed perfectly. Maybe the new midlength skis have measurable benefits. Let's evaluate them...in light of previous best art, as the innovators say. They don't make em like they used to, the good old days, real craftsmanship is dead, blah, blah blah. I'm being specific. You're acting weird. I'm perfectly happy when improvements come along: NNN is better than 75. Carbon poles are better than bamboo.) JFT: If you would post CIVILLY then RSN would be a better place. --JP |
#9
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
"Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote in message ... The Fischer Touring Light Aircore fulllength woodcore ski of 1990 *ROCKED* those values---being good both in and out of track. And basically perfect for homestyle skied-in trails in mellow terrain. I allege this to be the most common ski situation. (It fell back only slightly on graphic design, thankfully just missing out on the 80's Miami Vice green/pink era. Their more recent all-red Country ski seems like a winner with rock-solid graphics. Their new dark blue plus computerized chunks seems an *almost* dull step back, but still semi- OK for design.) I had to laugh at your "Miami Vice green/pink era" comment. That was definitely one of the low points in sports gear graphic design. Remember mountain bikes with psychadelic random-paint-spattering schemes? Or those Kastle skating skis with the day-glo green bases? I *DID* just get word from on high that midlength skis aren't bad. With the caveat to DEMO TIL YA DROP. ...We need more data, obviously. I will gladly demo a midlength! ...And will appreciate other folks' midlength reports. --JP I view all this "short" or "mid-length" stuff as just another marketing ploy. I learned to ski, as did many from my generation, on traditional length light touring gear. Everything is a trade-off, and one thing you sacrifice with shorter skis is fore-aft stability (and perhaps some glide). As for quality - well, there were some great skis produced back in the day, and there were some dogs. Nordic skiing and mountain biking both went through boom phases, and a lot of junk got manufactured. To answer your original question, JP: My first skis, I think (that was long time ago), were Fischer Royales (waxable). Then I skied a pair of Fiber Crowns into the ground. I've got a pair of Country Crowns that I've always thought were heavy and slow (compared to the other Fischer skis I owned). Finally, in a vain attempt to re-capture my youth, I've purchased a pair of Fischer Sport Glass (waxable) light touring skis, which I'm going to install some 3-pin bindings on. I'm with you, I would happily demo a shorter ski, but it would have to glide as well as a full length ski for me to get very excited about it. This is supposed to be a gliding sport. If I didn't want to glide, I'd take up snow-shoeing. -JJ |
#10
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Serious reviews/discussion of Day Touring gear?
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 05:36:01 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: On Dec 19, 11:49 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:39:06 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: It's good to keep a running baseline. For instance, the new midlength skis might will all glide and float with various abilities relative to each other. I'll then want to know how those figures compare to the best of full-length skis from a few years ago. See why old is important? It may be that ski building skill of awhile ago was more advanced than it is today. Maybe highest quality isn't cost effective. Why was my top of line touring ski lighter 17 years ago than the comparable ski today? It was very strong and performed perfectly. Maybe the new midlength skis have measurable benefits. Let's evaluate them...in light of previous best art, as the innovators say. They don't make em like they used to, the good old days, real craftsmanship is dead, blah, blah blah. I'm being specific. You're acting weird. I'm perfectly happy when improvements come along: NNN is better than 75. Carbon poles are better than bamboo.) JFT: If you would post CIVILLY then RSN would be a better place. If people would not say SILLY things like "performed perfectly" about something and set that up as a reference to judge newer stuffl RSN would be a better place. If people would not say such subjective and BIZARRE things as black clothes don't work RSN would be a better place. |
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