Pet Peeve

Jeff wrote:

Jay Levitt wrote:
says...

In a turn, the legs are always actively turning the ski.
In a traverse, you are going straight across the hill, and only when the
next turn happens do the feet become active again.

OK.. so why is traversing more annoying/disruptive than wide-radius
turns? I can see the biomechanical distinction, but it seems both will
put you back and forth across the hill in roughly the same manner.

Because a person can traverse a hill dozens of times with a fall likely
at any point, whereas a wide-radius turner will be gone and out of your
way in seconds.

To me it's less annoying, but the person is applying technique, albeit
in a tentative manner. I was a rookie at one point - heck, I'm still
learning - and it's hard for me to be annoyed with people who are
pushing the envelope and trying to get better. You can time a pass by
a wide=radius turner. Who knows what the hell a traverser is going to
do?

One thing you do know is that they're not going to SUDDENLY change
direction, so zipping past behind them is generally a safe bet,
especially if they're not right at the edge of the run.

--
Cheers,
Bev
=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=/=\=
"Sure, everyone's in favor of saving Hitler's brain, but when
you put it into the body of a great white shark, suddenly
you're a madman." --Futurama

The Real Bev wrote:

Jeff wrote:

Jay Levitt wrote:

says...


In a turn, the legs are always actively turning the ski.
In a traverse, you are going straight across the hill, and only when the
next turn happens do the feet become active again.

OK.. so why is traversing more annoying/disruptive than wide-radius
turns? I can see the biomechanical distinction, but it seems both will
put you back and forth across the hill in roughly the same manner.


Because a person can traverse a hill dozens of times with a fall likely
at any point, whereas a wide-radius turner will be gone and out of your
way in seconds.

Also, a person connecting wide-radius turns is spending more time in the
fall line. Or, put another way, while a person linking wide-radius
turns may cover the same amount of hill side-to-side as someone who's
traversing, they'll do it quicker and they'll cover more vertical as
they go, thus making fewere back-and-forths for one trip down the trail.


--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.

45percent is only about 24 degrees, a decent blue trail.



I disagree. I demark advanced trails at 35%. 40 and 45% is pretty serious
stuff. There is very little over 50%. Breck claims that the Lake Chutes are
57%. The steepest pitch at teh Bormio Men's Downhill course was 58%.

45 degrees is unskiable.

TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

TCS wrote:
45percent is only about 24 degrees, a decent blue trail.




I disagree. I demark advanced trails at 35%. 40 and 45% is pretty serious
stuff. There is very little over 50%. Breck claims that the Lake Chutes are
57%. The steepest pitch at teh Bormio Men's Downhill course was 58%.

45 degrees is unskiable.

TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

Oh dear, are we going to have the "percent"
versus "degree" discussion again?

I'm going to go do some homework.

VtSkier

TCS wrote:

45percent is only about 24 degrees, a decent blue trail.

I disagree. I demark advanced trails at 35%. 40 and 45% is pretty serious
stuff. There is very little over 50%. Breck claims that the Lake Chutes are
57%. The steepest pitch at teh Bormio Men's Downhill course was 58%.

45 degrees is unskiable.

You should say: "45 degrees is 100% unskiable."

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Völkl Conspiracy

TCS wrote:
45percent is only about 24 degrees, a decent blue trail.




I disagree. I demark advanced trails at 35%. 40 and 45% is pretty serious
stuff. There is very little over 50%. Breck claims that the Lake Chutes are
57%. The steepest pitch at teh Bormio Men's Downhill course was 58%.

You NEVER set a downhill course on the steepest terrain.

45 degrees is unskiable.

It is skiable, but I agree that it's at the upper limit.
Like LAL said (I think he said), 66 degrees is something
you jump off.

I frequently ski trails that I judge to be between
40 and 45 degrees. This is the trail I can stop on, stand
sideways, and not have to lean too far to touch the
snow next to me.

My shoulder is 60 inches off the ground, my arm is 36"
from the center of my back, it's only a slight lean to
the slope to touch it. That's 45 degrees or so.

TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

Below is a list of the trails, or rather lines, coming down
Tuckerman's Ravine on New Hampshire's Mount Washington.
There is enough information here to determine average pitch
compared to steepest sections. For instance, Hillman's which
is considered one of the gentler ways down has an average
pitch of 33 DEGREES with a max. pitch of 40 degrees. The
Sherburne Trail is considered a gentle restful way down the
mountain at the end of the day, yet it has a maximum pitch
of 35 DEGREES.

Name Length (approx.) Vertical (approx.) Max.Steep
Tuckerman Bowl 500m (1500 feet) 100m (300 feet) 30 deg
Left Gully 400m (1200 feet) 250m (800 feet) 40 deg
Right Gully 400m (1200 feet) 250m (800 feet) 40 deg
The Lip 400m (1200 feet) 200m (700 feet) 55 deg
The Headwall 300m (900 feet) 250m (800 feet) 55 deg
Lower Snowfield 500m (1500 feet) 200m (700 feet) 35 deg
Hillman Highway 950m (2700 feet) 500m (1500 feet) 40 deg
Sherburne Ski
Trail 3500m (2.5 miles) 600m (1900 feet) 35 deg

Granted ALL of this skiing is for experts only and there are
several "no fall zones" on Tuckerman's. But a lot of people
ski here in the spring (when, BTW, there is NO powder skiing).
It's all crud, slush, crust, ice, boiler plate, corn, etc. All
of the snow is wind deposited and wetted from below. Some people
would consider the skiing "extreme". I skied most of Hillman's
in 1964 on the crappy equipment of the day and before I had
much experience at all on steep terrain. I haven't been back
since then.

The above chart is from
http://www.absolutemotions.com/Newsl...Washington.htm
so you can see for yourself.

To address your comments directly, I would start advanced
trail pitch at some 30 degrees, depending, of course on
conditions including, grooming, snow depth, surface, etc.

Moderate terrain I would peg between 10 and 30 degrees, also
depending on the conditions.

Easy stuff is below 10 degrees with short pitches up to 15
degrees allowed.

VtSkier

VtSkier wrote:
(snip)


Name Length (approx.) Vertical (approx.) Max.Steep
Tuckerman Bowl 500m (1500 feet) 100m (300 feet) 30 deg
Left Gully 400m (1200 feet) 250m (800 feet) 40 deg
Right Gully 400m (1200 feet) 250m (800 feet) 40 deg
The Lip 400m (1200 feet) 200m (700 feet) 55 deg
The Headwall 300m (900 feet) 250m (800 feet) 55 deg
Lower Snowfield 500m (1500 feet) 200m (700 feet) 35 deg
Hillman Highway 950m (2700 feet) 500m (1500 feet) 40 deg
Sherburne Ski
Trail 3500m (2.5 miles) 600m (1900 feet) 35 deg
(snip)
I laid this out using a fixed length font and it looked OK.
You can go to the website I noted to see this in a much
easier to read, tabular form.

VtSKier

Walt wrote:
TCS wrote:

45percent is only about 24 degrees, a decent blue trail.


I disagree. I demark advanced trails at 35%. 40 and 45% is pretty
serious
stuff. There is very little over 50%. Breck claims that the Lake
Chutes are
57%. The steepest pitch at teh Bormio Men's Downhill course was 58%.

45 degrees is unskiable.


You should say: "45 degrees is 100% unskiable."

You love to play with words, don't you? Not that
there's anything wrong with that.

VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote:
TCS wrote:

45 degrees is unskiable.

You should say: "45 degrees is 100% unskiable."

You love to play with words, don't you? Not that
there's anything wrong with that.

Actually, I prefer to play with snow, but it melts whenever I try to
send it over the internet.


--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Völkl Conspiracy

ant wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
news:OpLNd.10221$ya6.9978@trndny01...

There is a certain breed of skier who insists on taking trails many
levels above his ability.


"I can get down anything"! How often have you heard that one?

I can get down anything too. On a patrol sled.

Dave