A couple of questions about Bourg St Maurice

"pg" wrote in message
...
|
| wrote in message
| ups.com...
|| On Feb 16, 12:23 pm, "pg" wrote:
|| wrote in message

This pm's webcam shows the Petit St Bernard hotel...
http://mysnowsports.com/webcams/bsm700.jpg

Gives a good idea of where the snowline is compared to the town.

Tropical weather the past two days - O° isotherm up at 3100m right now.
This webcam from 2400m at Les Arcs yesterday (no tampering involved)
tells a story....

http://mysnowsports.com/webcams/webfly.jpg

Same high temps tomorrow, but cooler again from Sunday. No significant
snowfall expected through next week.

Pete

"Ace" wrote in message
...
| On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:51:06 +0100, "pg"
| wrote:
|
| If it's
| a sunny day which means the hordes will be out, and you happen to
have a
| car, I would consider driving up to park in the free car park at the
| bottom of the 1950/2000 domain, at the Pre St Esprit. From here the
is a
| little known run, the Rhonaz blue (it's not even marked) opposite the
| Comborciere lift (across on the other side of the road). It includes
a
| short and easy draglift, then you ski on into the Villaroger sector.
|
| Good tip there. Never done that myself but I'll bear it in mind next
| time we're down your way.
|
| Assuming decent snow (ie low down) Villaroger is the place to ski
during
| Feb half term, the crowds don't seem to find their way across to this
| end of the ski area.
|
| Yes, I'd certainly agree here - many of the slopes on that side are
| also much less rocky than other parts, so even with less than perfect
| snow coverage ski damage is generally avoidable.

It takes about 15 minutes to drive to Villaroger Le Pre itself from
Bourg, so that's another option. When there are high winds and both the
Aiguille Rouge and the Lanchettes chair are shut, all the more reason to
head for the Villaroger sector. Firstly, it's completely protected from
the winds. If visibility is poor all the slopes are tree-lined. And most
important of all - virtually no one from the busy Arc 2000/1950 area
finds their way there when access is only possible via the Rhonaz blue.

Peisey used to be similarly quiet :-(

Big developments on the domain, with the new Intrawest construction at
1800, plus a large residential complex and new seasonnaires' building at
Arc 1600. We're going to need some new runs. At least the massive new
reservoir is close to approval at last (Arc 2000). They have had to be
pretty sparing with the snow cannons this year at times.

Pete
http://mysnowsports.com

pg wrote:

Peisey used to be similarly quiet :-(

Big developments on the domain, with the new Intrawest construction at
1800, plus a large residential complex and new seasonnaires' building at
Arc 1600. We're going to need some new runs. At least the massive new
reservoir is close to approval at last (Arc 2000). They have had to be
pretty sparing with the snow cannons this year at times.

Pete
http://mysnowsports.com

I think you are right about more runs and more lifts being required to
match these new developments - but where to put them? My only thoughts
are over the Col de Chal between the A. Rousse and the A. du st. Esprit.
But this is south facing.

Are there any plans to extend the Les Arcs Ski area. If not, then it
could end up like St. Anton, a brilliant ski area ruined by having too
many beds and resulting grossly overcrowded pites.

BTW does the Rhonaz drag ever run?

John

"john elgy" wrote in message
...
| pg wrote:
|
| Peisey used to be similarly quiet :-(
|
| Big developments on the domain, with the new Intrawest construction
at
| 1800, plus a large residential complex and new seasonnaires'
building at
| Arc 1600. We're going to need some new runs. At least the massive
new
| reservoir is close to approval at last (Arc 2000). They have had to
be
| pretty sparing with the snow cannons this year at times.
|
| I think you are right about more runs and more lifts being required to
| match these new developments - but where to put them? My only thoughts
| are over the Col de Chal between the A. Rousse and the A. du st.
Esprit.
| But this is south facing.
|
| Are there any plans to extend the Les Arcs Ski area. If not, then it
| could end up like St. Anton, a brilliant ski area ruined by having too
| many beds and resulting grossly overcrowded pites.
|
| BTW does the Rhonaz drag ever run?

Has to be checked in advance... it isn't today for example. But whenever
the Lanchettes is closed and there's no other access to the Villaroger
sector (eg via the Aiguille Rouge) it's invariably open. Was running
through all the bad weather last week.

Spoke to the lift company last year about plans for the domain - the
main 'enlargement' of the ski area involves the widening of current
pistes - which will be helped by the big increase in artificial snow
coverage... an infrastructure which hopefully will actually be supplied
with some water, unlike during the current winter .

Pete
http://mysnowsports.com

On 16 Feb, 20:37, "pg" wrote:
"pg" wrote in message

...
|| wrote in message

oups.com...
|| On Feb 16, 12:23 pm, "pg" wrote:

|| wrote in message

This pm's webcam shows the Petit St Bernard hotel...http://mysnowsports.com/webcams/bsm700.jpg

Gives a good idea of where the snowline is compared to the town.

Tropical weather the past two days - O° isotherm up at 3100m right now.
This webcam from 2400m at Les Arcs yesterday (no tampering involved)
tells a story....

http://mysnowsports.com/webcams/webfly.jpg

Same high temps tomorrow, but cooler again from Sunday. No significant
snowfall expected through next week.

Pete

Ha - that made me laugh. I got woken up from a deep, hungover sleep
yesterday by a housefly buzzing around my window. I shouted "Don't you
know how high we are?" and passed out again.

On the subject of extending domains, I heard an astonishing rumour
last month that somebody fancies joining up the Espace Killy,
Paradiski and Three Valleys. I know there are some off piste itineries
that can get you close to this, but piste-ing it? I don't know the
geography well enough, but the guy who told me is always full of so
much Mutzig induced merde that I didn't give it much thought. I'm sure
the environmentalists would have a field day with such a proposal.
Companie des Alpes pipe dream I expect, if that.

M

On 18 Feb 2007 08:21:23 -0800, "Matt T" wrote:

On the subject of extending domains, I heard an astonishing rumour
last month that somebody fancies joining up the Espace Killy,
Paradiski and Three Valleys. I know there are some off piste itineries
that can get you close to this, but piste-ing it? I don't know the
geography well enough, but the guy who told me is always full of so
much Mutzig induced merde that I didn't give it much thought. I'm sure
the environmentalists would have a field day with such a proposal.
Companie des Alpes pipe dream I expect, if that.

M

This is a very old rumour/project.

No chance whatsoever. Technically possible but National parks are protected
even in libetarian France. There would be a need to disturb the Parc national
de la Vanoise. (To include Espace Killy)

Some links can be made but there is no commercial imperative to do so, For
instance to link Pralognan La Vanoise's downhill ski area into the three
valleys requires one lift each. Pralognan thinks this is a very good idea but
the other lift would be from Courchevel 1650. This is the quietest place in
Courchevel ski area. They see no need expand the backwater. Pralognan is in
the same valley as Courchevel and on the same side. Pralognan is actually in
the National Park but the downhill skiing area is back down the valley. The
cross country routes are into the park.

Champagny en Vanoise is also in this valley. Getting to the other side of the
valley (probably to Courchevel 1650 rather than Pralognan) is a much tougher
problem than the Vanoise Express. But this mind boggling engineering would
indirectly link Villaroger (Les Arcs) to Orelle (in the Mauriene valley beyond
Val Thorens).

There are some posibilities for major link ups elsewhere. St Sorlin, who have
already pushed further up Col de la Croix de Fer than some people say they
promised they would, want to continue to Vaujany. This would link the Les
Sybelles ski area to the Alpe D'Huez ski area. The main problem here is a large
flat area that would need to be crossed. This is possible as anyone who has
skied the Sella Ronda, between Corvara and Colfosco (The two small resorts are
linked by two low nearly level lifts, but no skiing). Les Sept Laux also want
to attach to Vaujany, they have problems getting there too.

There is a major problem here. At the moment the number of people mistiming
their return to their home valley is relatively low. I sometimes stay in a
room overlooking the Tufs lift in Tignes Val Claret. This lift is one of the
ways to return to Val D'Isere or Tignes Lac. I sit watching as this long chair
lift is running to ensure there is no one is still on it. This attracts
various types. It varies from the unimportant I want another ride through
people from other Tignes areas who are one (or two) free bus rides from home,
to the very upset Val D'Isere visitors who have found themselves in the wrong
valley. It is not actually that bad, but people who get stuck in the wrong
valley rarely know the best way to travel between them. They sometime have
amusing tantrums. I am not ashamed to say it is excellent apres-ski
entertainment. I expect enlargement would leave many more people badly
stranded.

Ian Blake wrote:
On 18 Feb 2007 08:21:23 -0800, "Matt T" wrote:


On the subject of extending domains, I heard an astonishing rumour
last month that somebody fancies joining up the Espace Killy,
Paradiski and Three Valleys. I know there are some off piste itineries
that can get you close to this, but piste-ing it? I don't know the
geography well enough, but the guy who told me is always full of so
much Mutzig induced merde that I didn't give it much thought. I'm sure
the environmentalists would have a field day with such a proposal.
Companie des Alpes pipe dream I expect, if that.

M


This is a very old rumour/project.

No chance whatsoever. Technically possible but National parks are protected
even in libetarian France. There would be a need to disturb the Parc national
de la Vanoise. (To include Espace Killy)

Some links can be made but there is no commercial imperative to do so, For
instance to link Pralognan La Vanoise's downhill ski area into the three
valleys requires one lift each. Pralognan thinks this is a very good idea but
the other lift would be from Courchevel 1650. This is the quietest place in
Courchevel ski area. They see no need expand the backwater. Pralognan is in
the same valley as Courchevel and on the same side. Pralognan is actually in
the National Park but the downhill skiing area is back down the valley. The
cross country routes are into the park.

Champagny en Vanoise is also in this valley. Getting to the other side of the
valley (probably to Courchevel 1650 rather than Pralognan) is a much tougher
problem than the Vanoise Express. But this mind boggling engineering would
indirectly link Villaroger (Les Arcs) to Orelle (in the Mauriene valley beyond
Val Thorens).

There are some posibilities for major link ups elsewhere. St Sorlin, who have
already pushed further up Col de la Croix de Fer than some people say they
promised they would, want to continue to Vaujany. This would link the Les
Sybelles ski area to the Alpe D'Huez ski area. The main problem here is a large
flat area that would need to be crossed. This is possible as anyone who has
skied the Sella Ronda, between Corvara and Colfosco (The two small resorts are
linked by two low nearly level lifts, but no skiing). Les Sept Laux also want
to attach to Vaujany, they have problems getting there too.

There is a major problem here. At the moment the number of people mistiming
their return to their home valley is relatively low. I sometimes stay in a
room overlooking the Tufs lift in Tignes Val Claret. This lift is one of the
ways to return to Val D'Isere or Tignes Lac. I sit watching as this long chair
lift is running to ensure there is no one is still on it. This attracts
various types. It varies from the unimportant I want another ride through
people from other Tignes areas who are one (or two) free bus rides from home,
to the very upset Val D'Isere visitors who have found themselves in the wrong
valley. It is not actually that bad, but people who get stuck in the wrong
valley rarely know the best way to travel between them. They sometime have
amusing tantrums. I am not ashamed to say it is excellent apres-ski
entertainment. I expect enlargement would leave many more people badly
stranded.
Thanks for the very informative artiicle Ian.

The intersting thing about all these proposed link ups is they do very
little to actually increase the area available for skiing. They appear
to be mainly marketting excercises to say my resort is bigger than
yours. Witness the Vanoise express. From what I can see it is probably
the least used lift in the paradski area. Ever since it opened I have
skied 2 weeks a year in Les Arcs and have been across to La Plange once;
normally I cannot be bothered with the extra 25 euro. Has anyone else
used it much, perhaps 2 or three times a holiday?

What would be interesting is if a ski area actually added a new lift or
two into a completely undeveloped area.

BTW what is the skiing in Pralognan like? Would it be worth a day or two?

John

On 18 Feb, 21:25, Ian Blake wrote:
I am not ashamed to say it is excellent apres-ski
entertainment. I expect enlargement would leave many more people badly
stranded.

Heh - the old 5 o'clock Tommeuse shuffle. Never been caught out
myself, but I've cut it close a few times.

Thanks for the informative post.

Matt

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:19:14 +0000, john elgy
wrote:

Thanks for the very informative artiicle Ian.

The intersting thing about all these proposed link ups is they do very
little to actually increase the area available for skiing. They appear
to be mainly marketting excercises to say my resort is bigger than
yours. Witness the Vanoise express. From what I can see it is probably
the least used lift in the paradski area. Ever since it opened I have
skied 2 weeks a year in Les Arcs and have been across to La Plange once;
normally I cannot be bothered with the extra 25 euro. Has anyone else
used it much, perhaps 2 or three times a holiday?

What would be interesting is if a ski area actually added a new lift or
two into a completely undeveloped area.

BTW what is the skiing in Pralognan like? Would it be worth a day or two?

John

Actually a bit of misinformation. I should of looked at the map before I
mentioned this one. The Pralogonan ski area is on the wrong side of Pralognan.
This explains S3Vs coolness to the project. They get two new pistes one in
their area and one in Pralognan that is not linked to the rest of the area.
Pralognan get a second ski area. Perhaps that Remy Loisirs now own a big chunk
of S3V as well as Pralognan this may change.

I can not comment on the quality of Pralognan skiing. It is small area with
what appears to be a good mix of pistes. Certainly better than Doucy
Combelouviere (timid beginners only). I suspect it would be fine for a day or
two but too small for a week. Unless you like ski touring and cross country
then you would be in a great location.

I admit I did use the Vanoise Express three times last time I was in Les Arc. I
quite liked the fact that apart from first thing in the morning it is lightly
used. But that is what you would expect, mostly we cross to spend a day in La
Plagne. I noticed that more people appear to visit Les Arcs than the other way
around. I quite like the trip to Montalbert or Champagny for lunch. In the
restaurant above Champagny I was looking down on Courchevel. Montalbert is a
pretty little resort. The Vanoise Express certainly make such mini expeditions
possible.

You are right. Most development does not expand the area. This is not
univerally true. Most resorts are hemmed in by National Park and geography so
can not do anything but there examples where this is not true. In the last few
years the Valley de Belleville have pushed over into Orelle and built new lifts
into a previously unserved area. On the other hand they promised not to build
any new accomdation in Val Thorens. Good but, lower down the valley used to be
pleasantly quiet. St Martin and Les Menuires have expanded accomodation
massively. So queues are common here. I think each village are trying to
destroy their respective reputations. Les Menuires I understand but St Martin
was thought of as one of the prettiest ski resorts. Now they are both faux
tyrolean monstrocities. I feel even Les Menuires has lost some of its soul
when they dynamited a few of the infamous tower blocks.

Avoriaz has some ski area expansion ambitions. Some land trading between
France, Andorra and Spain has allowed several resorts to dream of massive
expansion.