Salomon Pilot Classic and Pilot 2 Classic Foot Pain

For years I've used the Salomon Profil Classic boots with no
discomfort. They are very comfortable. However I've tried the Pilot
Classic several years ago and now the Pilot 2 classic boots yesterday
on snow. Both of these newer soles kill my feet just behind the ball of
the foot. It feels as if when flexing up on the ball of the foot there
is great pressure building where the sole bends. Has anyone else had
this experience?

I wasn't aware of an earlier Pilot classic. I've been using the new
S-Lab classics recently and don't have a problem that way (but they are
colder on the bottom than the other models). I'm not going to
suggest a technique issue, but have you considered the possibility that
a custom insole or good quality alpine one modified to your foot might
help? Perhaps that's misses the boat entirely. In any case, alpine
fitters have a lot of experience with feet and flex, and if you find a
sharp one, they may have some ideas about your problem. I've had good
luck with people trained by and using products made by these folks (ZapZ
insoles - http://www.masterfitenterprises.com/zapz/, and InstaPrint
customs - http://www.bootfitters.com/instaprint.htm). The company is
in NY: http://www.masterfituniversity.com/contact.html. They may have a
suggestion on who to see in your region. Their fitters are listed at
http://www.bootfitters.com/FIND_SHOP.htm.

rm


"ADK Skier" wrote:

For years I've used the Salomon Profil Classic boots with no
discomfort. They are very comfortable. However I've tried the Pilot
Classic several years ago and now the Pilot 2 classic boots yesterday
on snow. Both of these newer soles kill my feet just behind the ball of
the foot. It feels as if when flexing up on the ball of the foot there
is great pressure building where the sole bends. Has anyone else had
this experience?

"ADK Skier" wrote:

For years I've used the Salomon Profil Classic boots with no
discomfort. They are very comfortable. However I've tried the Pilot
Classic several years ago and now the Pilot 2 classic boots yesterday
on snow. Both of these newer soles kill my feet just behind the ball of
the foot. It feels as if when flexing up on the ball of the foot there
is great pressure building where the sole bends. Has anyone else had
this experience?


wrote:
I wasn't aware of an earlier Pilot classic. I've been using the new
S-Lab classics recently ...

I'm kind of confused by the OP. The "Pilot" classic boot just came out
this year. Before that, there were two Salomon Profil boots - the Race
9 and the Carbon. But neither of those was a Pilot boot.

To the point of the foot issue. For what it's worth, when I was
shopping for classic boots a couple of years ago, I looked very hard at
both Salomon offerings at the time - the Race 9 and the Carbon. The
Race 9 (at the time yellow and black, switched later to grey) had a
distinctly different sole than the Carbon. It was definitely stiffer,
and for the same general fit, it did not flex the same way. It didn't
feel good at all to me. I had to "bite the bullet" and buy the Carbon
boot (wanted to stay with a Salomon sole). The point being, there was
a distinctively different feel to the sole - one felt great, the other
did not.

I have no idea what the new Pilot boot offerings are - are there more
than one, an S-Lab and some other? If that's the case, I'd recommend
trying the other one. Also, I know that Atomic makes a very nice
looking Pilot sole boot. That would be worth trying. I'd try other
boots before messing with one that hurts. In my opinion, if the
discomfort is caused by the way the sole flexes, I would be doubtful
that a different insole or other easy fix would help.

Ski shops have to just love masters skiers...

My Carbon classics were getting a little/lot beat up, and there was this
boat I sold, and there were these S-Lab Pilot Classics...

I agreed on the 9s. The sole just felt stiff. One of my high school
skiers fit both pretty well, but she said the Carbons were like
'slippers'. I thought more like running shoes, but OK - whatever works
for you.

I've got a narrow heel coupled with a wider forefoot, so fitting boots
is a pain in the foot, not to mention a little higher up the leg. In
general, the carbons fit well, and the flex was great. The only issue
was that they are a little cold. Well, a lot cold, but boot covers
worked on really cool days.

I tried the S-Labs last year at Hayward, and fell in love. Two main
things I think I felt: More freedom on the return, and better control
on downhills. We'll see about the latter when I ski really hard pack or
glare ice for the first time.

Trying to be a little conservative this time, I tried on the Atomic
boots, the 9s and the S-Labs. The Atomic had too much volume, and I
didn't like the zipper in front. Colors were pretty slick, though. The
9s (or whatever they call 'em this year) fit OK, a little loose, but I
remember what a pain the velcro was on the cuff. I never did get it to
stay on my old 9.11 classics. So I popped for the S-Labs.

Just for fun, I did skate a bit in them the other day at Troll Hollow.
I'd be hard pressed to do a long race in them, but I learned to skate in
Salomon RS-90s, so it wasn't that tough. You do need pretty good ankles:-)

I'll post more after I've skied in them for more than 3 hours. And see
if I still feel the same.

Marsh


Camilo wrote:

"ADK Skier" wrote:

For years I've used the Salomon Profil Classic boots with no
discomfort. They are very comfortable. However I've tried the Pilot
Classic several years ago and now the Pilot 2 classic boots yesterday
on snow. Both of these newer soles kill my feet just behind the ball of
the foot. It feels as if when flexing up on the ball of the foot there
is great pressure building where the sole bends. Has anyone else had
this experience?


wrote:
I wasn't aware of an earlier Pilot classic. I've been using the new
S-Lab classics recently ...

I'm kind of confused by the OP. The "Pilot" classic boot just came out
this year. Before that, there were two Salomon Profil boots - the Race
9 and the Carbon. But neither of those was a Pilot boot.

To the point of the foot issue. For what it's worth, when I was
shopping for classic boots a couple of years ago, I looked very hard at
both Salomon offerings at the time - the Race 9 and the Carbon. The
Race 9 (at the time yellow and black, switched later to grey) had a
distinctly different sole than the Carbon. It was definitely stiffer,
and for the same general fit, it did not flex the same way. It didn't
feel good at all to me. I had to "bite the bullet" and buy the Carbon
boot (wanted to stay with a Salomon sole). The point being, there was
a distinctively different feel to the sole - one felt great, the other
did not.

I have no idea what the new Pilot boot offerings are - are there more
than one, an S-Lab and some other? If that's the case, I'd recommend
trying the other one. Also, I know that Atomic makes a very nice
looking Pilot sole boot. That would be worth trying. I'd try other
boots before messing with one that hurts. In my opinion, if the
discomfort is caused by the way the sole flexes, I would be doubtful
that a different insole or other easy fix would help.

Marsh Jones wrote:
Ski shops have to just love masters skiers...

My Carbon classics were getting a little/lot beat up, and there was this
boat I sold, and there were these S-Lab Pilot Classics...

I agreed on the 9s. The sole just felt stiff. One of my high school
skiers fit both pretty well, but she said the Carbons were like
'slippers'. I thought more like running shoes, but OK - whatever works
for you.

I've got a narrow heel coupled with a wider forefoot, so fitting boots
is a pain in the foot, not to mention a little higher up the leg. In
general, the carbons fit well, and the flex was great. The only issue
was that they are a little cold. Well, a lot cold, but boot covers
worked on really cool days.

I tried the S-Labs last year at Hayward, and fell in love. Two main
things I think I felt: More freedom on the return, and better control
on downhills. We'll see about the latter when I ski really hard pack or
glare ice for the first time.

Trying to be a little conservative this time, I tried on the Atomic
boots, the 9s and the S-Labs. The Atomic had too much volume, and I
didn't like the zipper in front. Colors were pretty slick, though. The
9s (or whatever they call 'em this year) fit OK, a little loose, but I
remember what a pain the velcro was on the cuff. I never did get it to
stay on my old 9.11 classics. So I popped for the S-Labs.

Just for fun, I did skate a bit in them the other day at Troll Hollow.
I'd be hard pressed to do a long race in them, but I learned to skate in
Salomon RS-90s, so it wasn't that tough. You do need pretty good ankles:-)

I'll post more after I've skied in them for more than 3 hours. And see
if I still feel the same.

I'm curious about the new Pilot classic boots, I've heard good things
about the boot and the system. But my Carbons are still in perfect
condition and just fit my foot perfecly. Totally comfortable. I
really like the last and hope that the S-Labs are close enough to give
me a similar good fit.

I never notice the cold factor because I'm just used to wearing boot
covers (naturally cold feet). The black Boot Glove ones work great and
look great with the silver boot 8-).




Marsh


Camilo wrote:

"ADK Skier" wrote:

For years I've used the Salomon Profil Classic boots with no
discomfort. They are very comfortable. However I've tried the Pilot
Classic several years ago and now the Pilot 2 classic boots yesterday
on snow. Both of these newer soles kill my feet just behind the ball of
the foot. It feels as if when flexing up on the ball of the foot there
is great pressure building where the sole bends. Has anyone else had
this experience?


wrote:
I wasn't aware of an earlier Pilot classic. I've been using the new
S-Lab classics recently ...

I'm kind of confused by the OP. The "Pilot" classic boot just came out
this year. Before that, there were two Salomon Profil boots - the Race
9 and the Carbon. But neither of those was a Pilot boot.

To the point of the foot issue. For what it's worth, when I was
shopping for classic boots a couple of years ago, I looked very hard at
both Salomon offerings at the time - the Race 9 and the Carbon. The
Race 9 (at the time yellow and black, switched later to grey) had a
distinctly different sole than the Carbon. It was definitely stiffer,
and for the same general fit, it did not flex the same way. It didn't
feel good at all to me. I had to "bite the bullet" and buy the Carbon
boot (wanted to stay with a Salomon sole). The point being, there was
a distinctively different feel to the sole - one felt great, the other
did not.

I have no idea what the new Pilot boot offerings are - are there more
than one, an S-Lab and some other? If that's the case, I'd recommend
trying the other one. Also, I know that Atomic makes a very nice
looking Pilot sole boot. That would be worth trying. I'd try other
boots before messing with one that hurts. In my opinion, if the
discomfort is caused by the way the sole flexes, I would be doubtful
that a different insole or other easy fix would help.

Marsh Jones wrote:
Ski shops have to just love masters skiers...

My Carbon classics were getting a little/lot beat up, and there was this
boat I sold, and there were these S-Lab Pilot Classics...

I agreed on the 9s. The sole just felt stiff. One of my high school
skiers fit both pretty well, but she said the Carbons were like
'slippers'. I thought more like running shoes, but OK - whatever works
for you.

I've got a narrow heel coupled with a wider forefoot, so fitting boots
is a pain in the foot, not to mention a little higher up the leg. In
general, the carbons fit well, and the flex was great. The only issue
was that they are a little cold. Well, a lot cold, but boot covers
worked on really cool days.

I tried the S-Labs last year at Hayward, and fell in love. Two main
things I think I felt: More freedom on the return, and better control
on downhills. We'll see about the latter when I ski really hard pack or
glare ice for the first time.

Trying to be a little conservative this time, I tried on the Atomic
boots, the 9s and the S-Labs. The Atomic had too much volume, and I
didn't like the zipper in front. Colors were pretty slick, though. The
9s (or whatever they call 'em this year) fit OK, a little loose, but I
remember what a pain the velcro was on the cuff. I never did get it to
stay on my old 9.11 classics. So I popped for the S-Labs.

Just for fun, I did skate a bit in them the other day at Troll Hollow.
I'd be hard pressed to do a long race in them, but I learned to skate in
Salomon RS-90s, so it wasn't that tough. You do need pretty good ankles:-)

I'll post more after I've skied in them for more than 3 hours. And see
if I still feel the same.

Marsh


Camilo wrote:

"ADK Skier" wrote:

For years I've used the Salomon Profil Classic boots with no
discomfort. They are very comfortable. However I've tried the Pilot
Classic several years ago and now the Pilot 2 classic boots yesterday
on snow. Both of these newer soles kill my feet just behind the ball of
the foot. It feels as if when flexing up on the ball of the foot there
is great pressure building where the sole bends. Has anyone else had
this experience?


wrote:
I wasn't aware of an earlier Pilot classic. I've been using the new
S-Lab classics recently ...

I'm kind of confused by the OP. The "Pilot" classic boot just came out
this year. Before that, there were two Salomon Profil boots - the Race
9 and the Carbon. But neither of those was a Pilot boot.

To the point of the foot issue. For what it's worth, when I was
shopping for classic boots a couple of years ago, I looked very hard at
both Salomon offerings at the time - the Race 9 and the Carbon. The
Race 9 (at the time yellow and black, switched later to grey) had a
distinctly different sole than the Carbon. It was definitely stiffer,
and for the same general fit, it did not flex the same way. It didn't
feel good at all to me. I had to "bite the bullet" and buy the Carbon
boot (wanted to stay with a Salomon sole). The point being, there was
a distinctively different feel to the sole - one felt great, the other
did not.

I have no idea what the new Pilot boot offerings are - are there more
than one, an S-Lab and some other? If that's the case, I'd recommend
trying the other one. Also, I know that Atomic makes a very nice
looking Pilot sole boot. That would be worth trying. I'd try other
boots before messing with one that hurts. In my opinion, if the
discomfort is caused by the way the sole flexes, I would be doubtful
that a different insole or other easy fix would help.

Right what I meant to say was I tried the Bumblebee Classic 9 several
years ago. The new Pilot 2 boot I'm using is the Active model. The sole
flexes easy enough but that distinct pressure just like the Classic 9
is still there. My only other option is to buy a pair of the silver
combi boots which are softer than the previous two boots and don't kill
my feet. I guess I'll have to eat the purchase of the Pilot Classic
Active boots and two pairs of the new Pilot 2 bindings.

Camilo wrote:
Marsh Jones wrote:
Ski shops have to just love masters skiers...

My Carbon classics were getting a little/lot beat up, and there was this
boat I sold, and there were these S-Lab Pilot Classics...

I agreed on the 9s. The sole just felt stiff. One of my high school
skiers fit both pretty well, but she said the Carbons were like
'slippers'. I thought more like running shoes, but OK - whatever works
for you.

I've got a narrow heel coupled with a wider forefoot, so fitting boots
is a pain in the foot, not to mention a little higher up the leg. In
general, the carbons fit well, and the flex was great. The only issue
was that they are a little cold. Well, a lot cold, but boot covers
worked on really cool days.

I tried the S-Labs last year at Hayward, and fell in love. Two main
things I think I felt: More freedom on the return, and better control
on downhills. We'll see about the latter when I ski really hard pack or
glare ice for the first time.

Trying to be a little conservative this time, I tried on the Atomic
boots, the 9s and the S-Labs. The Atomic had too much volume, and I
didn't like the zipper in front. Colors were pretty slick, though. The
9s (or whatever they call 'em this year) fit OK, a little loose, but I
remember what a pain the velcro was on the cuff. I never did get it to
stay on my old 9.11 classics. So I popped for the S-Labs.

Just for fun, I did skate a bit in them the other day at Troll Hollow.
I'd be hard pressed to do a long race in them, but I learned to skate in
Salomon RS-90s, so it wasn't that tough. You do need pretty good ankles:-)

I'll post more after I've skied in them for more than 3 hours. And see
if I still feel the same.

Marsh


Camilo wrote:

"ADK Skier" wrote:

For years I've used the Salomon Profil Classic boots with no
discomfort. They are very comfortable. However I've tried the Pilot
Classic several years ago and now the Pilot 2 classic boots yesterday
on snow. Both of these newer soles kill my feet just behind the ball of
the foot. It feels as if when flexing up on the ball of the foot there
is great pressure building where the sole bends. Has anyone else had
this experience?


wrote:
I wasn't aware of an earlier Pilot classic. I've been using the new
S-Lab classics recently ...

I'm kind of confused by the OP. The "Pilot" classic boot just came out
this year. Before that, there were two Salomon Profil boots - the Race
9 and the Carbon. But neither of those was a Pilot boot.

To the point of the foot issue. For what it's worth, when I was
shopping for classic boots a couple of years ago, I looked very hard at
both Salomon offerings at the time - the Race 9 and the Carbon. The
Race 9 (at the time yellow and black, switched later to grey) had a
distinctly different sole than the Carbon. It was definitely stiffer,
and for the same general fit, it did not flex the same way. It didn't
feel good at all to me. I had to "bite the bullet" and buy the Carbon
boot (wanted to stay with a Salomon sole). The point being, there was
a distinctively different feel to the sole - one felt great, the other
did not.

I have no idea what the new Pilot boot offerings are - are there more
than one, an S-Lab and some other? If that's the case, I'd recommend
trying the other one. Also, I know that Atomic makes a very nice
looking Pilot sole boot. That would be worth trying. I'd try other
boots before messing with one that hurts. In my opinion, if the
discomfort is caused by the way the sole flexes, I would be doubtful
that a different insole or other easy fix would help.

All the models now use Pilot bindings, so I assume you've looked at
the lot. I was tempted by the combi, but it seemed a lot stiffer
overall and maybe narrower than the previous ones.




"ADK Skier" wrote:

Right what I meant to say was I tried the Bumblebee Classic 9 several
years ago. The new Pilot 2 boot I'm using is the Active model. The sole
flexes easy enough but that distinct pressure just like the Classic 9
is still there. My only other option is to buy a pair of the silver
combi boots which are softer than the previous two boots and don't kill
my feet. I guess I'll have to eat the purchase of the Pilot Classic
Active boots and two pairs of the new Pilot 2 bindings.

The combi I'm describing is the silver model which works with the
Profil binding only. I think the combi you are talking about is the
black model which works with Pilots. I know because I also have a pair
of he later just for pursuit races. Yes they are quite stiff. Better
yet I fixed the problem this morning on the Pilot Active Classic boots.
Took my drimmel tool and grinded down the distinct hump inside the boot
just back of where the ball of the foot would rest.

wrote:
All the models now use Pilot bindings, so I assume you've looked at
the lot. I was tempted by the combi, but it seemed a lot stiffer
overall and maybe narrower than the previous ones.




"ADK Skier" wrote:

Right what I meant to say was I tried the Bumblebee Classic 9 several
years ago. The new Pilot 2 boot I'm using is the Active model. The sole
flexes easy enough but that distinct pressure just like the Classic 9
is still there. My only other option is to buy a pair of the silver
combi boots which are softer than the previous two boots and don't kill
my feet. I guess I'll have to eat the purchase of the Pilot Classic
Active boots and two pairs of the new Pilot 2 bindings.

As mentioned earlier, you should check the Atomic classic boots - they
have the pilot sole. My experience is that there are real differences
between brands. The Atomics look like excellent boots to me, and they
might be better for your foot. I would certainly look at that option
before I changed out a bunch of bindings. Good luck.

ADK Skier wrote:
The combi I'm describing is the silver model which works with the
Profil binding only. I think the combi you are talking about is the
black model which works with Pilots. I know because I also have a pair
of he later just for pursuit races. Yes they are quite stiff. Better
yet I fixed the problem this morning on the Pilot Active Classic boots.
Took my drimmel tool and grinded down the distinct hump inside the boot
just back of where the ball of the foot would rest.

wrote:
All the models now use Pilot bindings, so I assume you've looked at
the lot. I was tempted by the combi, but it seemed a lot stiffer
overall and maybe narrower than the previous ones.




"ADK Skier" wrote:

Right what I meant to say was I tried the Bumblebee Classic 9 several
years ago. The new Pilot 2 boot I'm using is the Active model. The sole
flexes easy enough but that distinct pressure just like the Classic 9
is still there. My only other option is to buy a pair of the silver
combi boots which are softer than the previous two boots and don't kill
my feet. I guess I'll have to eat the purchase of the Pilot Classic
Active boots and two pairs of the new Pilot 2 bindings.