Mounting pilot skate bindings on NIS plated skis

Hi all,

I'm led to believe that standard profil or pilot skate bindings can be
fitted to skis that carry the new NIS binding plate system.

(a) is this true?

(b) are there any major problems associated with doing so?

Cheers,
Chris

Camilo wrote:
Chris Cole wrote:
Hi all,

I'm led to believe that standard profil or pilot skate bindings can be
fitted to skis that carry the new NIS binding plate system.

(a) is this true?

(b) are there any major problems associated with doing so?

Cheers,
Chris

I was told the same thing recently by a trusted person at a reputable
ski store. I believe he said they just drill into the plate - it
provides the structure exterior(ly), rather than interiorly. If that
makes any sense. It seemed to make sense to me a the time. I didn't
buy the skis (Madshus) because they didn't have a good fit for me.

That seems like it would be a waste. Madshus skis around here with the
plate cost about $125 more than the same ski without the plate.

Joseph

Mounting bindings on top of NIS plates is fine. The net effect is that
you end up with a bit of a binding lift. I know that Madshus (by their
report) has removed one or two laminations designed to hold the binding
screws from the inside of the ski and replaced it with the relatively
supple ABS of the NIS plate which also provides plenty of material for
the screws to hang onto. They claim that this provides a more supple
flex characteristic to the skis - and it has been my impression that
the NIS skis are generally better - especially on the classic side of
things.

For this past year the NIS skis cost about $15 more than the comparable
non-NIS model (at least in the Madshus line). Next year all the race
skis will be NIS. They have apparently adjusted the mold fort he NIS
plate so that there are pre-centered holes or hollows for Salomon
binding screws. Provided they do a good job positioning the NIS plate
(which they do) this will make it easier rather than harder to mount
Salomon bindings.

The biggest knock on putting bindings on top of NIS plates is that it
doesn't look super "clean". That may be a concern for some people, and
because psychology should not be underestimated as a factor is ski
performance, it's a valid concern. However, the top level skiers who
are on Madshus and Salomon are using NIS skis with good success.

Zach

Camilo wrote:
Chris Cole wrote:

Hi all,

I'm led to believe that standard profil or pilot skate bindings can be
fitted to skis that carry the new NIS binding plate system.

(a) is this true?

(b) are there any major problems associated with doing so?

Cheers,
Chris


I was told the same thing recently by a trusted person at a reputable
ski store. I believe he said they just drill into the plate - it
provides the structure exterior(ly), rather than interiorly. If that
makes any sense. It seemed to make sense to me a the time. I didn't
buy the skis (Madshus) because they didn't have a good fit for me.


Yep, I've been told they just drill into/through the ABS plastic NIS
plate and that it's just as stable. The main reason I'm curious is that
the new Madshus skis I bought have an NIS plate that is not flat... it
has ridges in all sorts of interesting places, and I'm not convinced a
pilot binding is going to sit flat/flush against the ski / binding
plate. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

Cheers,
Chris

wrote:
Camilo wrote:

Chris Cole wrote:

Hi all,

I'm led to believe that standard profil or pilot skate bindings can be
fitted to skis that carry the new NIS binding plate system.

(a) is this true?

(b) are there any major problems associated with doing so?

Cheers,
Chris

I was told the same thing recently by a trusted person at a reputable
ski store. I believe he said they just drill into the plate - it
provides the structure exterior(ly), rather than interiorly. If that
makes any sense. It seemed to make sense to me a the time. I didn't
buy the skis (Madshus) because they didn't have a good fit for me.


That seems like it would be a waste. Madshus skis around here with the
plate cost about $125 more than the same ski without the plate.

I didn't buy the skis for their NIS binding plate; it was incidental. I
was after the ski for it's size/shape/base and fit, which are better
suited for their intended use than other similar skis without the NIS
system. Unfortunately I specifically want to use Salomon pilot boots
with them, but hopefully it won't be a problem. I guess it is a bit of a
"waste" of the NIS system, but the skis weren't more expensive than
the other contenders, so I'm not too fussed about it. I'll have to wait
a couple of months until we have snow and I can find out if it all works
or not. =)

Chris

Zach Caldwell wrote:
Mounting bindings on top of NIS plates is fine. The net effect is that
you end up with a bit of a binding lift. I know that Madshus (by their
report) has removed one or two laminations designed to hold the binding
screws from the inside of the ski and replaced it with the relatively
supple ABS of the NIS plate which also provides plenty of material for
the screws to hang onto. They claim that this provides a more supple
flex characteristic to the skis - and it has been my impression that
the NIS skis are generally better - especially on the classic side of
things.

For this past year the NIS skis cost about $15 more than the comparable
non-NIS model (at least in the Madshus line). Next year all the race
skis will be NIS. They have apparently adjusted the mold fort he NIS
plate so that there are pre-centered holes or hollows for Salomon
binding screws. Provided they do a good job positioning the NIS plate
(which they do) this will make it easier rather than harder to mount
Salomon bindings.

The biggest knock on putting bindings on top of NIS plates is that it
doesn't look super "clean". That may be a concern for some people, and
because psychology should not be underestimated as a factor is ski
performance, it's a valid concern. However, the top level skiers who
are on Madshus and Salomon are using NIS skis with good success.

Zach


Thanks for that, Zach. Good to hear I haven't made a horrendous mistake. :-)

My concern was that the binding isn't going to be able to be mounted
completely flush/snugly against the ski or NIS plate. The model I have
obviously isn't the newer NIS plate designed specifically to take a
Salomon binding "neatly". I'm not really fussed what it looks like, in
terms of neatness. I'll be happy as long as the binding doesn't either
rip out of the ski/NIS plate, or have too much torsional flex in
relation to the ski/plate. As long as it stays firmly attached, it's all
good.

It certainly looks like the ABS plastic NIS plate is _very_ firmly
bonded to the ski.

I'd be interested in seeing how an R4/NIS binding attaches to the plate,
but no-one in Australia stocks any NIS gear (and probably won't for
years to come). For now, though, I would still prefer to stick with a
Salomon pilot binding as the boot fit is perfect.

As mentioned previously, it's all a bit hypothetical at this stage as
skiiable snow is still at least 3 months away and I'll have to make do
with staring longingly at my new skis until then. =)

Cheers,
Chris

Is there a weight penalty for using the Salomon pilot binding? That is,
does the pilot mounted on top of the NIS plate weigh any more than the
NNN binding, which the NIS plate is designed to accept?

-Everett

Zach Caldwell wrote:
Mounting bindings on top of NIS plates is fine. The net effect is that
you end up with a bit of a binding lift. I know that Madshus (by their
report) has removed one or two laminations designed to hold the binding
screws from the inside of the ski and replaced it with the relatively
supple ABS of the NIS plate which also provides plenty of material for
the screws to hang onto. They claim that this provides a more supple
flex characteristic to the skis - and it has been my impression that
the NIS skis are generally better - especially on the classic side of
things.

For this past year the NIS skis cost about $15 more than the comparable
non-NIS model (at least in the Madshus line). Next year all the race
skis will be NIS. They have apparently adjusted the mold fort he NIS
plate so that there are pre-centered holes or hollows for Salomon
binding screws. Provided they do a good job positioning the NIS plate
(which they do) this will make it easier rather than harder to mount
Salomon bindings.

The biggest knock on putting bindings on top of NIS plates is that it
doesn't look super "clean". That may be a concern for some people, and
because psychology should not be underestimated as a factor is ski
performance, it's a valid concern. However, the top level skiers who
are on Madshus and Salomon are using NIS skis with good success.

Zach

Everett wrote:
Is there a weight penalty for using the Salomon pilot binding? That is,
does the pilot mounted on top of the NIS plate weigh any more than the
NNN binding, which the NIS plate is designed to accept?


Good question. I don't have access to any NNN/NIS bindings to weigh
them. At a rough guess the ABS plate on the ski surely couldn't weigh
more than about 20 grams. I wouldn't imagine an NNN/NIS binding will
weigh significantly less than a normal pilot binding, just based on
appearance in photos, and size.

Given that my skis weigh roughly 1100g per pair, and at my level of
skiing, a difference of perhaps 10-20g per ski is unlikely to make a
significant difference to me. It may be an issue for elite racers, though.


Chris

Good questions about weight. I just put some bindings on the scale. A
single NIS binding weighs 140 grams. A single pilot bindings weighs 160
grams. Not a huge difference. I don't have NIS skis here right now but
I weighed some NIS Madshus versus non NIS Madshus in the fall and found
that the difference between NIS and non-NIS is less than the
variability of weight between any two given skis.

Z

Zach Caldwell wrote:
Good questions about weight. I just put some bindings on the scale. A
single NIS binding weighs 140 grams. A single pilot bindings weighs 160
grams. Not a huge difference. I don't have NIS skis here right now but
I weighed some NIS Madshus versus non NIS Madshus in the fall and found
that the difference between NIS and non-NIS is less than the
variability of weight between any two given skis.

Z

I understand that there are differences in weight among the various
bindings - e.g. it sounds like a Pilot binding is slightly heavier than
a NIS binding (not surprised given the "hardware" I see on my Pilot
bindings compared to a NNN type binding).. But someone asked if there
is a weight penalty for using a Pilot binding on a NIS ski. My first
thought was would it make a weight difference whether you mount any
binding on a NIS ski or a "regular" ski - the weight difference, is
simply a function of the binding, not the ski? In other words, the
weight "penalty" of a Pilot binding is not somehow exacerbated by
mounting it on an NIS ski.