No Vasaloppet in 2022-Global Warming

See:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle1559424.ece


This is consistent with a prediction I heard made by scientists who studied
glaciers in the US west. No skiing of any kind in North America in 20 years.

The predictions I heard regarding the effects of climate change due to C02
emissions included northern Europe and The British Isles becoming much
colder.
Also I did hear years ago that Vasaloppet planners where looking into the
future and figuring out how far north they'd have to move the race.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

It's really sad, but in MN I think the (temporatory) future of XC
skiing is artificial snow. It's like doing laps in the pool, so it gets
old quick. Part of what I liked about skiing, is that I could get in a
consistent winter workout skiing on a golf course about 1/2 mile from
my house. Now I have to drive 35 min or more, and of course that adds
to the problem.

I've started doing more self-examination, and I realized that I haven't
changed my habits regarding my CO2 generation besides insulating the
attic a few years ago. Just last night I said to my wife, next year
we're insulating the walls and getting a new furnace.

So is anyone else switching to more fuel efficiency? Riding the bike to
work, solar hot water?

Jay Wenner

Gary Jacobson wrote:
See:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle1559424.ece


This is consistent with a prediction I heard made by scientists who studied
glaciers in the US west. No skiing of any kind in North America in 20 years.

The predictions I heard regarding the effects of climate change due to C02
emissions included northern Europe and The British Isles becoming much
colder.
Also I did hear years ago that Vasaloppet planners where looking into the
future and figuring out how far north they'd have to move the race.

Are you saying no skiing anywhere in North America including the high
mountains of the western US and Canada, northern Canadian provinces, or
anywhere in Alaska? That sounds pretty far fetched to me, but I'm
listening.

Gary Jacobson wrote
No skiing of any kind in North America in 20 years.

I'll be glad to bet money against that claim -- provided there were some
reliable way to ensure that I would get paid in 2026 after I won the bet.

How about offering some credible verifiable source for that extreme negative
claim?
I see no reason to subject the readers of this newsgroup to that sort of
unfounded discouragement about continuing in our sport.

The predictions I heard regarding the effects of climate change due to C02
emissions included northern Europe and The British Isles becoming much
colder.

Yes I've heard sensible reasons for thinking that Scotland and Norway might
have _higher_ average snowfall in 20 years than now. (Though I'm not willing
to bet on that one unless offered some odds.)

Same could happen for some places in North America. Climate is complicated,
and so is snowfall. Just because Earth overall is probably going to keep
getting warmer does not contradict the hope that some areas might start
getting more snow.

Ken

Jay Wenner wrote
Part of what I liked about skiing, is that I could
get in a consistent winter workout

Yes, and even without snow I get a consistent winter workout -- right out my
door-- on my rollerskis or inline skates or bicycle.

... artificial snow. It's like doing laps in the pool,
so it gets old quick.

I've got hundreds of km of well-paved wide roads around where I live -- way
more terrain to explore than any XC ski center in the northeast U.S. I
still keep finding whole networks of pretty streets I've never rollerskied
or skated on before. It does not "get old".

Snow is good too, and I put some effort to drive to it and enjoy it when
it's available. But it's no problem for Sharon and me to get a fun winter
workout without it.

Ken

Gary Jacobson wrote:
"Camilo" wrote in message
oups.com...

Gary Jacobson wrote:
See:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle1559424.ece


This is consistent with a prediction I heard made by scientists who
studied
glaciers in the US west. No skiing of any kind in North America in 20
years.

Are you saying no skiing anywhere in North America including the high
mountains of the western US and Canada, northern Canadian provinces, or
anywhere in Alaska? That sounds pretty far fetched to me, but I'm
listening.

Yes. I am saying that a friend of mine who works for the National Park
System was told by scientists at Glacier National Park that there will be no
skiing in continental USA in 20 years if the rate of glacier recession
continues as it has recently. Apparently the glacial recession is a canary
or harbinger.


Well, you said "North America", not the "continental US". Believe it
or not, there's a lot more to north america than the continental US,
and there's a lot more to the US than the continental US. I thought
your original statement was kind of fishy. I'm skeptical about the
whole thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if any particular place that has snow
regularly now in the US has no snow in 15 years. But the whole US or
the whole of North America? No way. I'll bet global warming will
cause some weird weather patterns with *more* snow in a few places.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Maybe the sport of Nordic Skiing will truly be "nordic only". Some time
in the future if temps keep on rising there will only be xc skiing in
nations with mountenous area very much north.

XC skiing anno 2050:
- Canada
- USA with Alaska
- Norway
- Sweden
- Finland
- Russia

None from central europe because the mountain tops high enough for snow
do not have landscape for xc tracks, only alpine.
Urgh ... what a future. What did you say Gore?



Gary Jacobson skrev:
See:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle1559424.ece

Gary Jacobson wrote
I am saying that a friend of mine who works for the National Park System
was told by scientists at Glacier National Park that there will be no
skiing in continental USA in 20 years if the rate of glacier recession
continues as it has recently.

Now I can guess the source of the confusion. Somebody who doesn't understand
skiing is thinking that because lots of glaciers might disappear in 20
years, therefore there wouldn't be any skiing in 20 years.

But the glaciers have been receding for a long time now, and yet we're still
skiing. One time in March a bunch of us we're ski touring in the Canadian
Rockies, and somebody pointed out that you could see the old path of the
glacier when it was much bigger, and how much smaller it was now in
comparison -- and how if we had been there years ago, the route of our tour
would have taken us onto that glacier. We did our route and despite the lack
of glacier, we were on snow the whole way and we skied the whole way.

In the month of March in the mountains of western Canada, there's lots of
snow on the ground that has nothing to do with the history of glaciers.

Apparently the glacial recession is a canary or harbinger.

Sounds like something Gary is saying, not something the scientists said.

If I may paraphrase a U.S. national ski coach: The glaciers grow because the
snow falls faster, not the snowfall slows because the glaciers don't grow.

Ken

Gary Jacobson wrote
I do know that either or both Worldloppet and IAWLS have voiced concern
about the continuation of Worldloppet into the next decades.

The problem for organizers of giant race events is different than for those
of us who just want to enjoy skiing. The organizers think they need to make
big financial and human-support commitments to a specific place on a
specific date. They've got a big problem with the uncertainty.

For me and lots of other skiers, if anything it's gotten easier to increase
our percentage of good ski days. Modern technology gives us quicker access
to a wider range of info on snow conditions and weather forecasts. Not just
the official website, but reports from real skiers on discussion groups.
Then when we want to meet we can just send an Email out to our buddies,
coordinate at the last minute with cell phones.

For Sharon and me, making a decision about if and where to drive to ski on
Saturday is early if it comes on Thursday night. For long-weekend trips we
can easily reserve lodging on the net, then cancel it just as easily on the
net when conditions don't look good.

I've heard there's a big ice skating in Sweden near Stockholm, where the
80km(?) tour route is set, but the date is not. So they wait week after
week, and when they see the ice conditions are good, a message goes out and
lots of people skate the tour.

When I skied 90km from Salen to Mora, I didn't need anybody to tell me which
day to do it.

race organizers are being encouraged to establish the means to hold races
on man made snow.

That's a question of money (and temperature). The money depends on how many
people choose to participate. The number of people who want to participate
in 20 years -- and 5 years -- is going to depend on how much we encourage or
discourage to start and continue to ski -- and how much we develop and
support a realistic way to get out for enjoyable days of skiing (or
near-skiing substitutes off snow).

Ken