Crossover and Crossunder

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:27:27 +1000, "ant"
wrote:

yunlong wrote:

No, didn't say that "falling leaf" cannot be done with a toboggan in
the patroller's back, only said that "falling leaf" is an impractical
and dangerous maneuver to handle a toboggan.

I think you might be onto something here. It's a serious issue! I urge you
to contact the National Ski Patrol immediately. Lives are at stake.

True, and what does NSP know? Good intentions do not overcome
partitioned mind, y'know.

bw

yunlong wrote:

In my SKI magazine's "Encyclopedia of Skiing," published in 1970 by
Universal Publishing and Distributing Co., has no mentioned of
"falling leaf" maneuver, in fact, the term is not even in the
glossary.

Well in my copy of "The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing" Third Edition
published in 1999 by Bob Barnes, it says under "falling leaf" the following:

"Falling leaf is an exercise in which the skier side-slips diagonally
forward, then diagonally backward down the slope, prmarily by adjusting the
pressure forward and back on the skis. It is an excellent exercise for
tuning fore/aft balance (finding the "sweet-spot") and developing
sensitivity to the effects of "leverage". It also develops a refined feel
for edge control and edge release".

ant

ant wrote:
yunlong wrote:


In my SKI magazine's "Encyclopedia of Skiing," published in 1970 by
Universal Publishing and Distributing Co., has no mentioned of
"falling leaf" maneuver, in fact, the term is not even in the
glossary.


Well in my copy of "The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing" Third Edition
published in 1999 by Bob Barnes, it says under "falling leaf" the following:

"Falling leaf is an exercise in which the skier side-slips diagonally
forward, then diagonally backward down the slope, prmarily by adjusting the
pressure forward and back on the skis. It is an excellent exercise for
tuning fore/aft balance (finding the "sweet-spot") and developing
sensitivity to the effects of "leverage". It also develops a refined feel
for edge control and edge release".

ant

Hmmm, what I've been saying all along, or I think I have, it gets
confusing sometimes. Does the Encyclopedia have anything to say
about where skier weight is to get the desired effect of side-
slipping forward then backward? He says "adjusting the pressure
forward and back on the skis." But doesn't specify which way does
which. I'm really sure I know, but I'd like to hear it from
someone else.

VtSkier wrote:
ant wrote:
yunlong wrote:


In my SKI magazine's "Encyclopedia of Skiing," published in 1970 by
Universal Publishing and Distributing Co., has no mentioned of
"falling leaf" maneuver, in fact, the term is not even in the
glossary.


Well in my copy of "The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing" Third
Edition published in 1999 by Bob Barnes, it says under "falling
leaf" the following: "Falling leaf is an exercise in which the skier
side-slips diagonally
forward, then diagonally backward down the slope, prmarily by
adjusting the pressure forward and back on the skis. It is an
excellent exercise for tuning fore/aft balance (finding the
"sweet-spot") and developing sensitivity to the effects of
"leverage". It also develops a refined feel for edge control and
edge release". ant

Hmmm, what I've been saying all along, or I think I have, it gets
confusing sometimes. Does the Encyclopedia have anything to say
about where skier weight is to get the desired effect of side-
slipping forward then backward? He says "adjusting the pressure
forward and back on the skis." But doesn't specify which way does
which. I'm really sure I know, but I'd like to hear it from
someone else.

No, just what I quoted. I guess adjusting pressure means either applying it,
or reducing it.

ant

ant wrote:
yunlong wrote:

In my SKI magazine's "Encyclopedia of Skiing," published in
1970 by Universal Publishing and Distributing Co., has no
mentioned of "falling leaf" maneuver, in fact, the term is
not even in the glossary.

Well in my copy of "The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing" Third
Edition published in 1999 by Bob Barnes,

So it is the skiers adopted the term later in years, maybe, after the
term being popularized by snowboarders?


IS

it says under
"falling leaf" the following:
"Falling leaf is an exercise in which the skier side-slips
diagonally forward, then diagonally backward down the slope,
prmarily by adjusting the pressure forward and back on the
skis. It is an excellent exercise for tuning fore/aft balance
(finding the "sweet-spot") and developing sensitivity to the
effects of "leverage". It also develops a refined feel for
edge control and edge release".

ant

In article ,
"ant" wrote:

yunlong wrote:

In my SKI magazine's "Encyclopedia of Skiing," published in 1970 by
Universal Publishing and Distributing Co., has no mentioned of
"falling leaf" maneuver, in fact, the term is not even in the
glossary.

Well in my copy of "The Complete Encyclopedia of Skiing" Third Edition
published in 1999 by Bob Barnes, it says under "falling leaf" the following:

"Falling leaf is an exercise in which the skier side-slips diagonally
forward, then diagonally backward down the slope, prmarily by adjusting the
pressure forward and back on the skis. It is an excellent exercise for
tuning fore/aft balance (finding the "sweet-spot") and developing
sensitivity to the effects of "leverage". It also develops a refined feel
for edge control and edge release".

There you go with your fancy book learning, and references, and facts.
That ain't no way to argue o'er the usenet. You gotta use all CAPITALS
and a bunch of these "!!??!?!?!?!!" Make fun of the other person's
intelligence. Claim to be a "Perfesser of Skiing Turnology" and have a
phD from Oxnard. And don't forget, anybody who disagrees with you
really hates you and you need to let them know not to try any funny
business.

HTH.

Dave

You ____ off jerk.
"Bob Lee" wrote in message
...
yunlong wrote:

VtSkier wrote:
yunlong wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
(MERCY SNIP)
.....
Partitioned mindset again? The "falling leaf" is a maneuver
that mimics a falling leaf falls, be that in snowboarding,
flying, or skiing, if the description fits, it's how it'd be
called.

Agreed, someone just tried to insert a flying reference into
a skiing ng without first saying so.

Guess I'd never figure that you are such a partition-minded. No, you
cannot and could not see into this realm of oneness--one principle
guides/fits all--if you don't know how "definition" works.

I rest,

See, he needs to **** off. C'mon VtSkier, tell him to **** off.

Bob

yunlong wrote:
Norm wrote:

It was named after, um, a falling leaf, which is the action it
mimics.


nevertheless, it was snowboarders who adopted the name for that
particular maneuver, as a part of normal snowboarding.

HeySusss.
Is there something in your environment that particularly makes you stupid?

You are talking about something done and named decades before
snowboardering was invented.

If you have no historical background in skiing history it would behoove
you to listen and learn instead of persisting in a public display of
ignorance.

"VtSkier" wrote in message

Swear t'god. What I've described is just what I've observed.
Remember this is an observation, not a teaching drill. None
of it is useful or effective. It's just what I've seen.

Yea, but, a person does need to be crossed over, else
they'll fall. Even the tiniest bit, nonetheless they are and/or
need to be.

Vt, you could get every one of these new skiers down, with
a minimum or even absence of falling, and in fact, quite
possibly have them skiing in rough parallel by the time they
get down. By the time they get down they'll *really be psyched*.
Up, not out. They'll be back the next day for first beginner
chair.

This all, if you show them how the unshakably simple turn
I've described works. Easy to do, easy to teach.

Traverse, set the edge, transfer the weight to the outside ski,
match the skis by just a tiny lift of the inside ski tail, repeat. Stay
in home position, if you lose balance regain it by getting home
position back using abs and arms. Hands forward *always,
every second*.

Watch them and explain what it was they didn't do that time.
Just keep hammering on those simple points. This is how
the turn is actually done, not some nebulous theory. Before
long, they will have made successful turns, before much longer
they will have the whole thing.

If they're not getting the big toe edge, it's because they
aren't pushing on the ball of the foot, they don't have
enough knee angulation, or the boots don't fit. Even if
the boots don't fit, they could still get the job done with
the feet by pushing on the big toe ball of the foot and
using enough knee angulation.

Teach on. Respond on.

"Dave M" wrote in message

Ahhhh, but there is certripital force which often makes us think we feel
the phantom force acting centrifugally. Or something like that that I
learned in Physics a long time ago. I think I could still explain it on a
chalkboard with vector lines and such.

Dave M.

Centripetal is the force(s) that acts to oppose inertia. For
instance, the string that holds the ball it's attached to as you
twirl the whole assembly in a circle.

Centrifugal force is simply inertia.