Crossover and Crossunder

"yunlong" wrote in message
ups.com...

Sorry dude, most terrain park features would be closed in/after a dump
(they haven't got groomed), and most of the parkrats would probably out
in the powder fields looking for their fresh tracks too, and most of
them can handle the powder better than average skiers.

Practicing their falling leaf, no doubt.

Mary Malmros wrote:
Norm wrote:
yunlong wrote:


You are talking about something done and named decades before
modern downhill skiing [guess that the "modern downhill" qualifier
for "skiing" is necessary for some partition-minded to know the
subject involved] was invented.

And just because that "something done and named decades before"
doesn't mean there's nothing new there.

Most of snowboarders beyond beginner level know how to do "falling
leaf"; the question is, how many of advanced skiers can do it?



Almost all of them, if they cared to try. But most of them have the
courtesy not to and it would be nice if snowboarders didn't either.
Other than controlling speed while running a toboggan, or getting
down terrain which is beyond ones skill, it really has no practical
application.

Slipping a slalom course. A very practical application, done all the
time.

Of course. Hadn't thought of that.

yunlong wrote:


Most of snowboarders beyond beginner level know how to do
"falling leaf"; the question is, how many of advanced skiers
can do it?

Almost all of them, if they cared to try.

Hehehe...

But most of them have the courtesy not to and it would be nice
if snowboarders didn't either.

Why? [Are you claiming that because the maneuver may scrap the snow so
the maneuver is not ethical or something?]

Other than controlling speed while running a
toboggan, or getting down terrain which is beyond ones skill,
it really has no practical application.

So, you take the major function out of the "falling leaf" then claim
it has no "practical application"? Not sure if you know how to reason.

It is useful while
running a toboggan because its really the only way to run
straight down the fall line and deal with the build-up of snow
in front of your skis. Think about what might happen to the
toboggan if you tried doing short radius turns with a patient
loaded. Think about trying to snowplow on steeper terrain.
Over about 20 degrees it is ineffective, awkward and tiring.
You have to sideslip. And when you do that the snow builds up
in front, so you swing your skis one way then the other. to
release it. That is a falling leaf.

No, you haven't addressed my question, what if an ice chunk bounces
your skis and your knees get locked in straight position while you are
going backward?


What if the moon fell, we'd all be in trouble then wouldn't we? You move the
skis back and forth to deal with stuff like ice chumks. Why would your kness
get locked in a straight position when they have no reason to become that
way in the first place?





If you have no historical background in skiing history

One doesn't have to have "historical background in skiing
history" to know how to ski, and skiing is excelled by
technical/physical know-how and discipline, not in mouthing
the skiing history.

That is true as far as it goes, but if you had just a little
knowledge of skiing history it might have prevented you from
looking like an idiot by telling people who have been skiing
longer than you have been walking that falling leaf is a term
invented by snowboarders.

So, you think that miss-comment makes you look smarter? No, it only
shows that you don't know how to read properly, or just in denial. No,
I didn't say that snowboarder invented the term, but your implication
that the skier invented/owned the term is quite arrogance and idiocy.

No I think your miscomment makes you look dumber. Of course in your case it
hardly stands alone.






it would behoove you to listen and learn instead of
persisting in a public display of ignorance.

"From what I gather, you don't jump, can't do superpipe, can
neither ski straight nor spin, but in a perpetuated wiggles,
you think you are one great skier who knows all about
skiing? Yup, thanks for being such a fine example of
conceited little knowledge."

While I don't claim a lot of skill in any of those things I've
certainly tried them all, and none of them brings me anywhere
near the enjoyment I get from a decent powder day You go hang
out with the kids in the park or whatever gives you pleasure.

Well, you'll have to learn/know how to do them first, that means a lot
of practice, before you can even enjoy them.


Sorry, the season is too short to waste my time with circus tricks. I have
skiing to do.




Just means one fewer track to cross out back where the good
stuff is.

Sorry dude, most terrain park features would be closed in/after a dump
(they haven't got groomed), and most of the parkrats would probably
out in the powder fields looking for their fresh tracks too, and most
of them can handle the powder better than average skiers.

Now, here is a question, there's a beautiful but narrow tract of stash
there with a single track goes through it, how do you ski to enjoy its
fresh untouched powder?

No different than if it was untracked, it just isn't quite as nice. You
still ski it and you still enjoy it. No idea what you are getting at here.

Norm wrote:
yunlong wrote:


Most of snowboarders beyond beginner level know how to do
"falling leaf"; the question is, how many of advanced
skiers can do it?

Almost all of them, if they cared to try.

Hehehe...

But most of them have the courtesy not to and it would be
nice if snowboarders didn't either.

Why? [Are you claiming that because the maneuver may scrap
the snow so the maneuver is not ethical or something?]

Well...?


Other than controlling speed while running a
toboggan, or getting down terrain which is beyond ones
skill, it really has no practical application.

So, you take the major function out of the "falling leaf"
then claim it has no "practical application"? Not sure if
you know how to reason.

It is useful while
running a toboggan because its really the only way to run
straight down the fall line and deal with the build-up of
snow in front of your skis. Think about what might happen
to the toboggan if you tried doing short radius turns with
a patient loaded. Think about trying to snowplow on steeper
terrain. Over about 20 degrees it is ineffective, awkward
and tiring. You have to sideslip. And when you do that the
snow builds up in front, so you swing your skis one way
then the other. to release it. That is a falling leaf.

No, you haven't addressed my question, what if an ice chunk
bounces your skis and your knees get locked in straight
position while you are going backward?

What if the moon fell, we'd all be in trouble then wouldn't
we? You move the skis back and forth to deal with stuff like
ice chumks. Why would your kness get locked in a straight
position when they have no reason to become that way in the
first place?

You'd hit the icy chunks just like you hit the icy spots, and when you
off balance and try to regain it, "if you are going backward on the
back-slip, you'll get caught on the edges easily, which speeds the skis
down faster than you can bend your knees, your knees get locked by ever
faster downward skis' speed. There's no recovery from this type
mishap." Would you fly a commercial airliner knowing the pilot may
faint unpredictably?


If you have no historical background in skiing history

One doesn't have to have "historical background in skiing
history" to know how to ski, and skiing is excelled by
technical/physical know-how and discipline, not in
mouthing the skiing history.

That is true as far as it goes, but if you had just a
little knowledge of skiing history it might have prevented
you from looking like an idiot by telling people who have
been skiing longer than you have been walking that falling
leaf is a term invented by snowboarders.

So, you think that miss-comment makes you look smarter? No,
it only shows that you don't know how to read properly, or
just in denial. No, I didn't say that snowboarder invented
the term, but your implication that the skier invented/owned
the term is quite arrogance and idiocy.

No I think your miscomment makes you look dumber. Of course in
your case it hardly stands alone.

As you couldn't counter "I didn't say that snowboarder invented
the term," your denial makes you look even dumber.




it would behoove you to listen and learn instead of
persisting in a public display of ignorance.

"From what I gather, you don't jump, can't do superpipe,
can neither ski straight nor spin, but in a perpetuated
wiggles, you think you are one great skier who knows all
about skiing? Yup, thanks for being such a fine example of
conceited little knowledge."

While I don't claim a lot of skill in any of those things
I've certainly tried them all, and none of them brings me
anywhere near the enjoyment I get from a decent powder day
You go hang out with the kids in the park or whatever gives
you pleasure.

Well, you'll have to learn/know how to do them first, that
means a lot of practice, before you can even enjoy them.

Sorry, the season is too short to waste my time with circus
tricks. I have skiing to do.

So, you don't think those "circus tricks" are skiing? What kind of
skiing do you do?


Just means one fewer track to cross out back where the good
stuff is.

Sorry dude, most terrain park features would be closed
in/after a dump (they haven't got groomed), and most of the
parkrats would probably out in the powder fields looking for
their fresh tracks too, and most of them can handle the
powder better than average skiers.

Now, here is a question, there's a beautiful but narrow
tract of stash there with a single track goes through it,
how do you ski to enjoy its fresh untouched powder?

No different than if it was untracked, it just isn't quite as
nice. You still ski it and you still enjoy it. No idea what
you are getting at here.

To ski a parallel track/line to the existing track so you don't have to
touch the other track? [you'd have skied the virgin snow twice.]

Here's another challenge to you powder 8 hounds, can you two members
team come down the field on a single track?

IS

Mary Malmros wrote:
Norm wrote:

yunlong wrote:


You are talking about something done and named decades before
modern downhill skiing [guess that the "modern downhill" qualifier for
"skiing" is necessary for some partition-minded to know the subject
involved] was invented.

And just because that "something done and named decades before"
doesn't mean there's nothing new there.

Most of snowboarders beyond beginner level know how to do "falling
leaf"; the question is, how many of advanced skiers can do it?




Almost all of them, if they cared to try. But most of them have the
courtesy not to and it would be nice if snowboarders didn't either.
Other than controlling speed while running a toboggan, or getting down
terrain which is beyond ones skill, it really has no practical
application.


Slipping a slalom course. A very practical application, done all the time.

In local FIS and USSA races it's even done repeatedly by raggedy-ass
aged volunteer course workers carrying shovels and 30lb bags of salt
while trying to control rut build-ups or replacing torn-out gates.

yunlong wrote:

Now, here is a question, there's a beautiful but narrow tract of stash
there with a single track goes through it, how do you ski to enjoy its
fresh untouched powder?

How do you ski it? You ski it QUICKLY, before some doofus boarder
sideslips the whole dam fall-line.

yunlong wrote:


But most of them have the courtesy not to and it would be
nice if snowboarders didn't either.

Why? [Are you claiming that because the maneuver may scrap
the snow so the maneuver is not ethical or something?]

Well...?

OK, Yunlong, I will acknowledge that you seem to have grasped the blatantly
obvious here.



leaf is a term invented by snowboarders.

So, you think that miss-comment makes you look smarter? No,
it only shows that you don't know how to read properly, or
just in denial. No, I didn't say that snowboarder invented
the term, but your implication that the skier invented/owned
the term is quite arrogance and idiocy.

No I think your miscomment makes you look dumber. Of course in
your case it hardly stands alone.

As you couldn't counter "I didn't say that snowboarder invented
the term," your denial makes you look even dumber.

What, you want me to go back and find where you did? I don't know exactly
what you said but the implication was there. Everybody else seems to have
thought so as well, so if thats not what you meant maybe it was a problem
with the way you said it.




it would behoove you to listen and learn instead of
persisting in a public display of ignorance.

"From what I gather, you don't jump, can't do superpipe,
can neither ski straight nor spin, but in a perpetuated
wiggles, you think you are one great skier who knows all
about skiing? Yup, thanks for being such a fine example of
conceited little knowledge."

While I don't claim a lot of skill in any of those things
I've certainly tried them all, and none of them brings me
anywhere near the enjoyment I get from a decent powder day
You go hang out with the kids in the park or whatever gives
you pleasure.

Well, you'll have to learn/know how to do them first, that
means a lot of practice, before you can even enjoy them.

Sorry, the season is too short to waste my time with circus
tricks. I have skiing to do.

So, you don't think those "circus tricks" are skiing? What kind of
skiing do you do?

Yunlong, if those kind of things bring you enjoyment then by all means you
should do them. It just doesn't happen to do it for me. I prefer skiing
challenging steeps and powder, when I can. If I was able to ski often enough
that I got bored with those, then I might spend some time in the park but I
don't foresee reaching that point for a long time yet.





Just means one fewer track to cross out back where the good
stuff is.

Sorry dude, most terrain park features would be closed
in/after a dump (they haven't got groomed), and most of the
parkrats would probably out in the powder fields looking for
their fresh tracks too, and most of them can handle the
powder better than average skiers.

Now, here is a question, there's a beautiful but narrow
tract of stash there with a single track goes through it,
how do you ski to enjoy its fresh untouched powder?

No different than if it was untracked, it just isn't quite as
nice. You still ski it and you still enjoy it. No idea what
you are getting at here.

To ski a parallel track/line to the existing track so you don't have
to touch the other track? [you'd have skied the virgin snow twice.]

Here's another challenge to you powder 8 hounds, can you two members
team come down the field on a single track?

Oh, is that what you meant? I do the first all the time, its not difficult,
as long as the first track wasn't put there by someone a lot better than
myself. Why would I want to do the second? Maybe if I was trying to preserve
the line? I might do that if I was guiding, but other than that, I can't
imagine why.

Norm wrote:
VtSkier wrote:


excellent exercise for tuning fore/aft balance (finding the
"sweet-spot") and developing sensitivity to the effects of
"leverage". It also develops a refined feel for edge control and
edge release". ant

Hmmm, what I've been saying all along, or I think I have, it gets
confusing sometimes. Does the Encyclopedia have anything to say
about where skier weight is to get the desired effect of side-
slipping forward then backward? He says "adjusting the pressure
forward and back on the skis." But doesn't specify which way does
which. I'm really sure I know, but I'd like to hear it from
someone else.

No, just what I quoted. I guess adjusting pressure means either
applying it, or reducing it.

ant

I got that much, but want a second opinion (in addition to
mine) about which direction of pressure provides what results.
What is your opinion?


Norm? Alan? How 'bout it guys, what direction of pressure
gets the tips/tails going in what direction?


****, I donno, I just do it. More of a twisting sort of thing than pressure,
I think.
I remember all kinds of instruction about using the chain and what fin to
weight if you have to travers and all that, but the falling leaf, all I
remember is the instructer getting us to try it without a toboggan, then
once it was apparent nobody was going to crash and die, we did it with the
real thing. If you have any kind of balance and edge control skills, its
almost second nature, its really not hard at all. I'd go so far as to say
its easier WITH a toboggan behind you than without.
If I had snow to try it out on right now, I'm sure I could figure out the
dynamics of it well enough to describe, but thats gonna havta be a next
December kind of thing now. :-(

Yes, I can do it by twisting, sort of like "steering" but you
don't need to, just weight shifting should do it.

Norm wrote:
yunlong wrote:


But most of them have the courtesy not to and it would be
nice if snowboarders didn't either.

Why? [Are you claiming that because the maneuver may scrap
the snow so the maneuver is not ethical or something?]

Well...?


OK, Yunlong, I will acknowledge that you seem to have grasped the blatantly
obvious here.




leaf is a term invented by snowboarders.

So, you think that miss-comment makes you look smarter? No,
it only shows that you don't know how to read properly, or
just in denial. No, I didn't say that snowboarder invented
the term, but your implication that the skier invented/owned
the term is quite arrogance and idiocy.

No I think your miscomment makes you look dumber. Of course in
your case it hardly stands alone.

As you couldn't counter "I didn't say that snowboarder invented
the term," your denial makes you look even dumber.


What, you want me to go back and find where you did? I don't know exactly
what you said but the implication was there. Everybody else seems to have
thought so as well, so if thats not what you meant maybe it was a problem
with the way you said it.

it would behoove you to listen and learn instead of
persisting in a public display of ignorance.

"From what I gather, you don't jump, can't do superpipe,
can neither ski straight nor spin, but in a perpetuated
wiggles, you think you are one great skier who knows all
about skiing? Yup, thanks for being such a fine example of
conceited little knowledge."

While I don't claim a lot of skill in any of those things
I've certainly tried them all, and none of them brings me
anywhere near the enjoyment I get from a decent powder day
You go hang out with the kids in the park or whatever gives
you pleasure.

Well, you'll have to learn/know how to do them first, that
means a lot of practice, before you can even enjoy them.

Sorry, the season is too short to waste my time with circus
tricks. I have skiing to do.

So, you don't think those "circus tricks" are skiing? What kind of
skiing do you do?


Yunlong, if those kind of things bring you enjoyment then by all means you
should do them. It just doesn't happen to do it for me. I prefer skiing
challenging steeps and powder, when I can. If I was able to ski often enough
that I got bored with those, then I might spend some time in the park but I
don't foresee reaching that point for a long time yet.




Just means one fewer track to cross out back where the good
stuff is.

Sorry dude, most terrain park features would be closed
in/after a dump (they haven't got groomed), and most of the
parkrats would probably out in the powder fields looking for
their fresh tracks too, and most of them can handle the
powder better than average skiers.

Now, here is a question, there's a beautiful but narrow
tract of stash there with a single track goes through it,
how do you ski to enjoy its fresh untouched powder?

No different than if it was untracked, it just isn't quite as
nice. You still ski it and you still enjoy it. No idea what
you are getting at here.

To ski a parallel track/line to the existing track so you don't have
to touch the other track? [you'd have skied the virgin snow twice.]

Here's another challenge to you powder 8 hounds, can you two members
team come down the field on a single track?


Oh, is that what you meant? I do the first all the time, its not difficult,
as long as the first track wasn't put there by someone a lot better than
myself. Why would I want to do the second? Maybe if I was trying to preserve
the line? I might do that if I was guiding, but other than that, I can't
imagine why.

Take a look at this...
http://www.gravityfed.com/articles/2...e-profile.html

A little insight into how to get a clean run many times in the
same fresh powder.

VtSkier wrote:
Take a look at this...
http://www.gravityfed.com/articles/2...e-profile.html

Looks like Walt the Legend's tracks. Silver Spoon has been renamed
Wally World due to him. Go up there any day in the winter, and he'll
be there.

-klaus