Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On Monday, July 7, 2014 1:49:02 PM UTC-6, Richard Henry wrote:
On Monday, July 7, 2014 9:47:30 AM UTC-7, pigo wrote:
I understand that PCMR screwed up by not renewing their lease on time. I also am not surprised that it took over three years to get a final eviction notice signed (and I wonder how that will be enforced). I am just hoping that some compromise comes about so that the resort continues to operate, even if the existing lifts have to cross a sort of DMZ between the two properties that now exist.

Would we have PCMR employees loading at the bottom, and Vail/Canyons employees unloading at the top? Will there be a protocol for handing off rescue toboggans at the boundary (or worse, would the rescuee have to change toboggans?)?

pcmr will just operate a contrived snobored park type of area similar to the bottoms of most large resorts. Talisker/Vail (if brought in) will have control over all of the ski terrain. They will have to access from somewhere other than the current base. Both the crayons and DV can to that in a manner similar to Alta and the Supreme chair. Or they can build a new base area above the top of Main St. on property that they own.

On 7/7/14 1:40 PM, pigo wrote:
On Monday, July 7, 2014 11:31:03 AM UTC-6, lal_truckee wrote:
On 7/7/14 9:47 AM, pigo wrote:
Deer Valley will continue to be the best_ski area_ in the country
I KNEW you had a sense of humor...

How many times have you skied it? You apparently know it well.

Once was enough.
Shrink-wrapped slopes.

On 7/7/14 1:47 PM, pigo wrote:
Or they can build a new base area above the top of Main St. on property that they own.
But they can't build an interesting mountain.

On Monday, July 7, 2014 6:32:00 PM UTC-6, lal_truckee wrote:

Once was enough.

Shrink-wrapped slopes.

I'll take that as a no.

On Monday, July 7, 2014 6:39:53 PM UTC-6, lal_truckee wrote:
On 7/7/14 1:47 PM, pigo wrote:

Or they can build a new base area above the top of Main St. on property that they own.

But they can't build an interesting mountain.

That didn't hurt Vail any. And it may be true. But that's always been the case. Interesting enough as a home base with all the other areas that were available in the area.

But what will happen as a result of this shuffle will be, eventually a connection from DV to the crayons. All with varying degrees of snow, terrain, steep, that together will make a better menu.

There's also satisfaction in seeing the turmoil and upheaval in the yuppie ******** that the town has become.

Richard Henry wrote:
On Monday, July 7, 2014 8:48:51 AM UTC-7, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2014-07-07 02:20:16 +0000, Richard Henry said:



This has been a recurring question for decades, but things looked

brightest after 1986 when Dave McCoy bought June more or less out of

bankruptcy, and boosted June-specific income by improving customer

service and upgrading trail and lift facilities, while maintaining most

of June's distinctive flavor. The best years were probably in the late

90's, after a unique tramway lift (Yan QMC) was installed from the

parking base to the main chalet, 1000 feet above the best steep expert

terrain on the mountain, combined with the fact that Mammoth still did

not permit snowboards, and June welcomed them.



Then the QMC became unusable after the Yan lift disasters and

subsequent bankruptcy, snowboards were allowed at Mammoth without

restriction, and the recession piled onto bad snow years. When MMSA

went public by a heavily-indebted buyout, the annual income became

critical, and the weak snow/income 2011-12 year drove MMSA to suspend

June's operation for the 2012-13 season to please creditors.



This year June re-opened, but unfortunately there was another weak snow

season. The linked graphs show the June and June-Mammoth combined

skier-day and income numbers through mid-April, which was when June

closed for the season.



http://monocounty.ca.gov/sites/defau...04-13-2014.pdf






Will this weak financial year force MMSA to close June again creditors?

The Forest Service statened last year that not operating June was a

violation of the Forest Service permit, and they would declare the

permit in default and offer it to other potential operators if MMSA

does not keep June open.



I'm just hoping...



...purely for nostalgic reasons...



...that Talisman "Mountain" repopens:



http://www.thestar.com/business/real_estate/2014/05/13/bankrupt_talisman_ski_resort_to_become_hotel_and_s pa.html






That's where I learned to ski.



:-)

It's fate, really. After driving 5 to 7 hours to get to Mammoth, few
want to drive another hour to ski an inferior resort. In my personal
experience skiing there, the big benefits of June over Mammoth were
smaller crowds on Saturdays, $10 Wednesdays, the QMC (when it was
running), and cheaper (but older) hotels.

Now if the June Lake Valley had been located an hour south of Mammoth, up
in the ridge west of Bishop, Mammoth might be the little brother of the pair.

The area west of Bishop would be around Sabrina Lakes area. There is some
good backcountry skiing there, but we are talking around 12 to 13 thousand
feet up, (Sabrina Lakes is around eight to nine thousand).. There are
pretty crazy lines... Also even though it is not much higher than Mammoth,
those extra thousand or two thousand feet in elevation can make a storm
much worse.

I don't think a hypothetical June Mountain further south would help
business. June Mountain doesn't have the water, the land, besides the
infrastructure, (roads, getting the county to pass bonds for all the public
works for building etc) to be a major resort...

This is one of the most isolated areas in the Continental US, with a small
year round population. If the area wants to viable, they need to have lots
of year round activity, besides a ski area and good fly fishing..

People will go to June if they have enough attractions to be drawn to it.
Much like Las Vegas was pretty built out of the middle of no where,

Right now, if they want to open the mountain, (if the USFS allows it) I
would keep overhead down to the bone, have one lift open, and do a
Silverton to La Grave set up, because that is probably the cheapest way to
keep open with the minimum of staff. They can operate as a multi faceted
lift ski area, because they don't have the draw to get a large daily base
each day, besides Season Ticket holders will be at minimum, (which is money
in the bank to get interest)

If June had the land and the water to developed, I think they would have a
chance. However with no water, how climate change is already effecting the
Eastern Sierra, and the competition from Mammoth to South Lake Tahoe, I
don't see a good business plan to keep June Mountain open.

On Monday, July 7, 2014 9:23:43 PM UTC-6, wrote:

I used to go to Lake Sabrina in the early 60's. It's where the family went to car camp. Also Lake Mojave on the Colorado River. I still enjoy the CR as often as possible. Over 100 visits to Lake Powell. And probably as many to sites South of there.

Much like Las Vegas was pretty built out of the middle of no where,

Las Vegas was established by the mo's. I believe the intent was to open a trade route from SLC to L.A. or somewhere near there to have a port for trade.

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:28:52 AM UTC-7, pigo wrote:
On Monday, July 7, 2014 9:23:43 PM UTC-6, wrote:



I used to go to Lake Sabrina in the early 60's. It's where the family went to car camp. Also Lake Mojave on the Colorado River. I still enjoy the CR as often as possible. Over 100 visits to Lake Powell. And probably as many to sites South of there.



Much like Las Vegas was pretty built out of the middle of no where,



Las Vegas was established by the mo's. I believe the intent was to open a trade route from SLC to L.A. or somewhere near there to have a port for trade.

Before the railroads came, it was a dependable water stop in the middle of the desert. Then the railroads built a town there for the same reason. It boomed during the Hoover Dam construction time, and then later in the war as the military trained nearby. It ended up being a remnant of wild-west culture (bars, gambling and hookers) just when America was cleaning up the rest of country. Then the Mafia came. The current city has no logical reason to be as big as it is where it is except for its history and momentum.

lal_truckee wrote:
On 7/6/14 7:20 PM, Richard Henry wrote:
http://monocounty.ca.gov/sites/defau...04-13-2014.pdf

I wonder how they'd be doing if they were still a ski mountain instead of
a real estate debt servicing operation.
As the biggest of the town of Los Angeles' local ski hills they did well
for decades. It wasn't til they went corporate bananas chasing the MBA
will-o-the-wisp that they fell on hard times. Unfortunately their
attitude invested the whole town and dragged it into the pit.

I recommend Hal Clifford's book Downhill Slide: Why the Corporate Ski
Industry is Bad for Skiing, Ski Towns, and the Environment

I wouldn't call the Eastern Sierras ski areas "Los Angeles' local ski
hills", given they are over 300 miles away, and Reno is much closer to
them.. I would say the "Southern California Market", given that Southern
California has a GDP bigger than countries like Spain, Poland etc, and is
larger than 40 individual US states.

Most lift operating areas, with no property development and commercial
leasing, can't do well in the present economic climate. Energy prices,
Insurance rates, Operating Expenses just suck up any EBITDA. Ski areas
make their money on property development and real estate, no matter how
risky and tumultuous property development can be as a business.

Combine with warmer winters, a ski area can't rely as their business plan,
solely on being a ski area, (xxxx must have a secret business plan, but I
am guessing with a steady clientele next to an urban area, and world renown
PR, it can get profit in bad snow years)

Ski areas have to try to get revenue all year round, with property
development, attracting those who want a second home, and constantly
getting money from rents from their developments, rather than have half the
businesses close shop after the ski season is over.

The lift skiing was always tight margins, while it attracted the skiers to
buy other stuff, like second homes, or to come out of season.. hence the
building of golf courses etc.

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:12:44 PM UTC-6, Richard Henry wrote:

Before the railroads came, it was a dependable water stop in the middle of the desert.

That's pretty much what I said.