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Pilot Boots in Profil Bindings?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 16th 04, 01:11 PM
Jonathan Shefftz
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Default Pilot Boots in Profil Bindings?

I knew the answer to this once, but have since forgotten, so I need a
refresher, and perhaps the conventional wisdom has changed since then
anyway based in additional experience:

A pilot boot will work in a profil binding, but what are the
implications for skiing performance and for wear&tear/durability?
(I recall that the answer has something to do with how the front of
the pilot boot bumps up against the profil bumper, yet can't recall
the specifics.)

Detailed background in case it matters:
I've been skiing in the Salomon 9.1 RS (i.e., pre-pilot
top-of-the-line model). They're still in very good condition, but I
just found a pair of the bumble-bee pilot boots for a price that
looked like a misprint, and I have a friend who could use my old
profil boots. I will buy a new pair of skate skis with pilot
bindings, and relegate my old skate skis with profil bindings for
dirty conditions. But since we often have such dirty conditions here
in Boston (yes, we actually have a ski area in the city complete with
snowmaking, grooming, lights, and Tuesday night time trials series)
because of our air pollution, and since my old skate skis are still in
pretty good shape after three seasons, I hope to use them fairly often
.. . . if that doesn't cause significant problems. Hence the inquiry.

thanks in advance for any feedback!
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  #2  
Old November 16th 04, 07:58 PM
Nathan Schultz
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Default

Jonathan,

You won't have any problem wearing your Pilot boots on your "backup"
skis. The feel is not quite as nice as the dedicated Pilot system or the
dedicated Profil system, but after 10 minutes you won't even notice it.
This is due to the fact that the bumper gets squeezed a little bit more with
the Pilot boot since there is not a toe piece made to accept it.

When the Pilot first came out, they wanted all of us on the Subaru
Factory Team wearing them, even though they could not ship any bindings to
us. So we spent the bulk of a season on Pilot boots with Profil bindings.
No issues.

-Nathan
www.nsavage.com

"Jonathan Shefftz" wrote in message
om...
I knew the answer to this once, but have since forgotten, so I need a
refresher, and perhaps the conventional wisdom has changed since then
anyway based in additional experience:

A pilot boot will work in a profil binding, but what are the
implications for skiing performance and for wear&tear/durability?
(I recall that the answer has something to do with how the front of
the pilot boot bumps up against the profil bumper, yet can't recall
the specifics.)

Detailed background in case it matters:
I've been skiing in the Salomon 9.1 RS (i.e., pre-pilot
top-of-the-line model). They're still in very good condition, but I
just found a pair of the bumble-bee pilot boots for a price that
looked like a misprint, and I have a friend who could use my old
profil boots. I will buy a new pair of skate skis with pilot
bindings, and relegate my old skate skis with profil bindings for
dirty conditions. But since we often have such dirty conditions here
in Boston (yes, we actually have a ski area in the city complete with
snowmaking, grooming, lights, and Tuesday night time trials series)
because of our air pollution, and since my old skate skis are still in
pretty good shape after three seasons, I hope to use them fairly often
. . . if that doesn't cause significant problems. Hence the inquiry.

thanks in advance for any feedback!



  #3  
Old November 16th 04, 11:11 PM
Andrew Lee
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Default


"Jonathan Shefftz" wrote:
A pilot boot will work in a profil binding, but what are the
implications for skiing performance and for wear&tear/durability?
(I recall that the answer has something to do with how the front of
the pilot boot bumps up against the profil bumper, yet can't recall
the specifics.)


The bar in the pilot boot is set a bit farther back from the toe so the part
of the boot that contacts the bumper sticks out more. Compare the boots.
It looks like about a 4 mm difference. If you won't be switching boots
around, take a knife and shave back the bumper about 4 mm or so. A point of
comparison would be to click a profil boot into a profil skate binding (or
pilot boot into a pilot binding), hold onto the boot dangling the ski, and
see how it hangs. Then slowly shave back the bumper so you get it to hang
the same way with the pilot boot in the profil binding. You could also
shave it back more or less depending on your personal preferences I guess,
or try the softer yellow classic bumper without shaving it back.

I don't like the pilot binding, so I put profils on my last new pair of
skate skis. I don't see how they can perform that much differently... the
spring hook on the pilot can't provide any extra lateral stability. You can
test that off the ski easily. What provides the lateral stability is the
stiffness of the toe bar and the clamp mechanism, as well as the ridge when
the boot is down. The ridge on the pilot binding is wider just behind the
main bar clamp, so that's why profil boots don't physically fit on the pilot
binding. The wider hollow in the front part of the pilot boots (to
accomodate the fatter ridge) does leaves a bit of a gap in that location
when using pilot boots with profil bindings. But, I don't think it matters
since it is so close to the clamp and the lateral deflection is minimal
there . I don't feel any difference when skiing, but others feel something.
The spring is less damped than the bumper (though you can adjust the preload
by shaving back the bumpers using the pilot boot), so that probably provides
the feel difference.


  #4  
Old November 17th 04, 08:46 PM
Jonathan Shefftz
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Default

Thanks everyone for the highly informative responses!

The boot box says copyright 2000, so that means they're definitely not
the original bumble bees (which I think came out in '97?).

I put the pilot boot in one profil binding and the profil boot in the
other. The profil boot goes up about 10 degrees before engaging the
bumper, where as the pilot boot engages the bumper immediately. The
profil boot goes up about 40 degrees before the bumper is compressed
to its max, whereas the pilot boot makes it up only to about 30
degrees.

I have a skate/classic combi/active bumper I can use (105 flex) so I
think I'll use that instead of a skate bumper (115 flex).

thanks again for all the feedback!
 




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