kids on lifts and what is a surface tow?

Hi,

Never been skiing and as for living in South Texas, we don't get much (any)
snow down here. We are planning a trip to New Mexico early next year and
are thinking of Red River. We have a 5 year old and a almost 3 year old at
that time that are going with us. I am worried about the lifts and
wondering if they are safe for the kids. I have heard that ther are no type
of belts or harness. Is it safe for the kids? Is there any other way to
get to the top of the mountain? Any suggestions of another resort in the NM
or S Colorado that has a gondola? Thanks for any help or suggestions you
can offer.


Sparky

On Fri, 20 May 2005 01:02:09 -0500, "Sparky"
wrote:

Never been skiing and as for living in South Texas, we don't get much (any)
snow down here. We are planning a trip to New Mexico early next year and
are thinking of Red River. We have a 5 year old and a almost 3 year old at
that time that are going with us. I am worried about the lifts and
wondering if they are safe for the kids. I have heard that ther are no type
of belts or harness. Is it safe for the kids? Is there any other way to
get to the top of the mountain? Any suggestions of another resort in the NM
or S Colorado that has a gondola? Thanks for any help or suggestions you
can offer.

Every above ground lift I have ever seen has some type of metal bar
that you lower in front of your waist after getting on, and rasie just
before getting off. When there is a small child (although 3 is
definitely too young for this, and probably 5 would be) the lift
attendant makes certain they are riding up with someone older enought
to handle the bar. The kiddie ski classes/day care tend to work around
using the lift.

The surface tows are much older technology, are rarely seen any more.
Almost all of the ones I recall at the smaller areas in New England
are now gone. No need for safety belts, as the safest thing to do is
to let go if there is a problem. As they require more attention from
the user, much less popular with liability underwriters.

Various types. The oldest is the rope tow, where you grab on and get
pulled up in preset ski tracks. There are also the J-bar, where a
J-shaped bar, often spring-loaded, gets wrapped around your butt to
pull you along. Also the T-bar, where there is a bar at the end of the
rope, and you place this between your legs, and sort of partially sit
on the bar. A few other types existed as well.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Gary S. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2005 01:02:09 -0500, "Sparky"
wrote:


Never been skiing and as for living in South Texas, we don't get much (any)
snow down here. We are planning a trip to New Mexico early next year and
are thinking of Red River. We have a 5 year old and a almost 3 year old at
that time that are going with us. I am worried about the lifts and
wondering if they are safe for the kids. I have heard that ther are no type
of belts or harness. Is it safe for the kids? Is there any other way to
get to the top of the mountain? Any suggestions of another resort in the NM
or S Colorado that has a gondola? Thanks for any help or suggestions you
can offer.


Every above ground lift I have ever seen has some type of metal bar
that you lower in front of your waist after getting on, and rasie just
before getting off. When there is a small child (although 3 is
definitely too young for this, and probably 5 would be) the lift
attendant makes certain they are riding up with someone older enought
to handle the bar. The kiddie ski classes/day care tend to work around
using the lift.

The surface tows are much older technology, are rarely seen any more.
Almost all of the ones I recall at the smaller areas in New England
are now gone. No need for safety belts, as the safest thing to do is
to let go if there is a problem. As they require more attention from
the user, much less popular with liability underwriters.

Various types. The oldest is the rope tow, where you grab on and get
pulled up in preset ski tracks. There are also the J-bar, where a
J-shaped bar, often spring-loaded, gets wrapped around your butt to
pull you along. Also the T-bar, where there is a bar at the end of the
rope, and you place this between your legs, and sort of partially sit
on the bar. A few other types existed as well.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

For very small children, look for an area that has a good kids
program. The kids will be happier and the grown-ups will be too.

Often there is a limited amount of space for the kids and
reservations should be made when you make your reservations for
lodging.

What to look for:
A more or less separate area for kids (adults whizzing by
tend to scare beginning kids)
Staff strictly for kids programs (no overlap w/adults prog)
Lifts: a "Magic Carpet" type of lift is best(easy/slow/low)

And for you, especially the 3yo, if the kids show little or no
interest in skiing, put them in day-care and call it good.
Actually skiing programs for ones that young are really just
day care with maybe an hour or so of "skiing" each day.

If the 5yo has an interest, he/she will pick it up incredibly
quickly so don't worry, but don't push either.

If you are going skiing for the first time with kids, I'd
suggest looking for the best kids' program. The adult program
for adults will probably be adequate for your purposes.

I'll be kind and not offer a Texas skier joke. But. People
from Texas tend to not know what it's like to slide while
on your feet. This is a new experience and you might like
to practice some sock-sliding on a waxed floor, maybe even
some roller-blading, while it's not sliding because it's
more directional, it's a start. Wear pads. Don't worry about
the kids, this is for you.

Oh, yes, let the pros deal with the kids as far as skiing goes.

VtSkier

Gary S. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2005 01:02:09 -0500, "Sparky"
wrote:


Never been skiing and as for living in South Texas, we don't get much (any)
snow down here. We are planning a trip to New Mexico early next year and
are thinking of Red River. We have a 5 year old and a almost 3 year old at
that time that are going with us. I am worried about the lifts and
wondering if they are safe for the kids. I have heard that ther are no type
of belts or harness. Is it safe for the kids? Is there any other way to
get to the top of the mountain? Any suggestions of another resort in the NM
or S Colorado that has a gondola? Thanks for any help or suggestions you
can offer.

First, you're not on your own - ski resorts have a huge investment in
teaching kids to ski - they are the future income. So just check/ask the
mountain. You won't be stuck trying to haul kids up a steep mountain
while trying to learn yourself. (BTW, you didn't ask, but I'll tell you
anyway: take a beginner lesson yourself. Check with the resort - around
here many resorts offer beginner packages - rentals, lessons, and lift
tickets for one low price.)


Every above ground lift I have ever seen has some type of metal bar
that you lower in front of your waist after getting on, and rasie just
before getting off.

Not around here. "Safety" bars are common on high speed detachable lifts
but there are plenty of older lifts left around, often on the more
desirable terrain for kids. Safety bars seem more common in the east and
Colorado tourist towns than farther west - I don't know about the SW.
Even when we do have bars lots of folks decline to lower them.

When there is a small child (although 3 is
definitely too young for this, and probably 5 would be) the lift
attendant makes certain they are riding up with someone older enought
to handle the bar. The kiddie ski classes/day care tend to work around
using the lift.

IF the kids are using the lifts (see below) the operators can/will slow
the lift to help the kid get settled and secure next to an adult. Not a
problem. Although my two year old tried to jump off a lift in mid-flight
before I caught him on the way out. BTW 3&5 is not too young; 3s should
ride with an adult each.

But instead of riding lifts, kids 3 and 5 (or 4 and 6) should be in
"snow school" AKA a day care with ski instruction. Look for a resort
with a quality kid's care facility. They should provide skis and boots,
should get the kid dressed warmly and ready to ski, should teach them on
isolated easy terrain with a moving carpet to get up the whole three
feet of vertical, and should provide lunch and snack. A good such
program is wonderful. Avoid one where the principle is baby sitting;
insist on one that does focus on ski instruction.

Hope you find out why we all love skiing.

Sparky wrote:
Hi,

Never been skiing and as for living in South Texas, we don't get much
(any) snow down here. We are planning a trip to New Mexico early
next year and are thinking of Red River. We have a 5 year old and a
almost 3 year old at that time that are going with us. I am worried
about the lifts and wondering if they are safe for the kids. I have
heard that ther are no type of belts or harness. Is it safe for the
kids? Is there any other way to get to the top of the mountain? Any
suggestions of another resort in the NM or S Colorado that has a
gondola? Thanks for any help or suggestions you can offer.

Surface lifts are no big deal. A lot of the beginner lifts in Australia are
pomas and t-bars, and many hills even in the US use rope-tows or handle tows
for beginners (especially kids). Harnesses would be bloody dangerous. In the
old days we used them, called "nutcrackers", but you'd never see one in
America nowadays.

I have a notion there is a NM resort with a gondola... Apache something? Ski
Apache. Near some place called I think "ruidoso".

but the beginner terrain isn't always at the top of gondolas, and double
that for little kids.

--
ant
Don't forget to watch Eurovison! 7.30 friday night and the main event
Sunday night!

Vail has - I think - a gondola-accessible beginners area.

But, having said that, a gondola is not the solution. The kids need to
learn to ride the lifts. Teaching this is something ski schools do when
the kids are ready - often during the afternoon of the first day.

Most lifts have some sort of bar or other, and I have ridden lifts with
very little kids without any problems at all.

Please don't come to Colorado.

Sparky wrote:
Hi,

Never been skiing and as for living in South Texas, we don't get much (any)
snow down here. We are planning a trip to New Mexico early next year and
are thinking of Red River. We have a 5 year old and a almost 3 year old at
that time that are going with us. I am worried about the lifts and
wondering if they are safe for the kids. I have heard that ther are no type
of belts or harness. Is it safe for the kids? Is there any other way to
get to the top of the mountain? Any suggestions of another resort in the NM
or S Colorado that has a gondola? Thanks for any help or suggestions you
can offer.


Sparky

rumpius wrote:
Please don't come to Colorado.

ROTFL. sympathise.

--
ant
Don't forget to watch Eurovison! Sunday night.

Please don't come to Colorado.

I won't come back to Colorado if you NEVER come to Texas. What an Ass....

" Surface lifts are no big deal. A lot of the beginner lifts in Australia
are
pomas and t-bars, and many hills even in the US use rope-tows or handle
tows for beginners (especially kids). Harnesses would be bloody dangerous.
In the old days we used them, called "nutcrackers", but you'd never see
one in America nowadays.

I have a notion there is a NM resort with a gondola... Apache something?
Ski Apache. Near some place called I think "ruidoso".

but the beginner terrain isn't always at the top of gondolas, and double
that for little kids.

Yes Riudoso does have a gondola.....the only gondola in the state of NM as a
matter of fact. The problem with Riudoso is that the ski are Ski Apache is
a 40 minute drive one way up the mountain and there is no lodging in the ski
area. We considered this but want to sta in a resort area so the kids have
access to the snow and tubing and snow mobiles w/o having to ride the lifts
up to the top of the mountain. Red River says they have a surface tow but I
can't find any info on it and how far it goes up the mountain. We should
have more than enough people going on the trip with us so the little one
will always have someone to stay with down below. Thanks for all the
help........

Sparky wrote:
Yes Riudoso does have a gondola.....the only gondola in the state of NM as a
matter of fact. The problem with Riudoso is that the ski are Ski Apache is
a 40 minute drive one way up the mountain and there is no lodging in the ski
area. We considered this but want to sta in a resort area so the kids have
access to the snow and tubing and snow mobiles w/o having to ride the lifts
up to the top of the mountain. Red River says they have a surface tow but I
can't find any info on it and how far it goes up the mountain. We should
have more than enough people going on the trip with us so the little one
will always have someone to stay with down below. Thanks for all the
help........


If it's the same surface lift (rope tow) as when I was there, it starts
at the day lodge on climbers right and goes up maybe 75 vertical feet.

-klaus