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#21
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Jeff Davis wrote:
Nobody inhales water when they suffocate in snow. They soffocate because the ice crystals that form around their nose and mouth fuse into an air tight barrier. The cavity is depleted of oxygen and they die. So if instead of having a "death mask" form, they have snow packed in their throat shutting off their lungs it doesn't count as suffocating? |
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#22
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In article ,
Walt wrote: Or brain damage if it is corrected but a little too late. Which may explain some of the posts in this thread, IYKWIM. This is crossposted to rec.skiing.snowboard- That speaks for itself. -- According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker." |
#23
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In article .com,
TexasSkiNut wrote: For those of us predisposed to these occurences, even a small particle hitting just the wrong spot can trigger one. I had a tortilla chip cause one once, as did some red pepper on a sandwich bun. Not fun at all. I even have had one trigerred once by chomping on some ice. So, to answer the OP's question, YES, it is possible to "drown" in snow, but it is much more likely that you'd suffocate. Some kid took a header off the traverse below the Casper Resraunt the other day. According to the JH Ski Patrol, the kid had a big wad of chew in his mouth. It lodged in his airway. His buddys got right to him and called the Patrol. Unfortunately they weren't trained and neglected to clear his airway. He was pretty much dead meat by the time the Patrol got to him, but they revived him. He had severe brain damage from suffocation and died in a hospital shortly afterward. So I can see asphyxiation and suffocation, but by your very denotation of dry drowning, one must first inhale water. Without the inhalation of water, there is no drowning. Good research. -- According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker." |
#24
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In article .com,
TexasSkiNut wrote: Jeff Davis wrote: Nobody inhales water when they suffocate in snow. So if instead of having a "death mask" form, they have snow packed in their throat shutting off their lungs it doesn't count as suffocating? Of course that's denotative suffocation. The triple point of water is O degrees Celsius. Water exists as liquid, solid, and vapor at that temperature, eh? Drowning denotes inhalation of liquid water, does it not? There is hardly enough H2O in that amount of snow to qualify as drowning. It is rightly denotatively suffocation. So you're going to argue that Water is a liquid, a solid, or a vapor? Water and Ice are synonymmous? Not to mention Gas? Go ahead and stretch it til it fits, albiet, stretched that tight the rationalization will quickly disintegrate under cursory examination. -- According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker." |
#25
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"Jeff Davis" wrote in message ... In article .com, TexasSkiNut wrote: Jeff Davis wrote: Nobody inhales water when they suffocate in snow. So if instead of having a "death mask" form, they have snow packed in their throat shutting off their lungs it doesn't count as suffocating? Of course that's denotative suffocation. The triple point of water is O degrees Celsius. Water exists as liquid, solid, and vapor at that temperature, eh? Actually, 0.01°C, but you would have to be skiing at a pretty high altitude, since the triple-point pressure is 0.006 atmospheres. Drowning denotes inhalation of liquid water, does it not? There is hardly enough H2O in that amount of snow to qualify as drowning. It is rightly denotatively suffocation. So you're going to argue that Water is a liquid, a solid, or a vapor? Water and Ice are synonymmous? Not to mention Gas? Go ahead and stretch it til it fits, albiet, stretched that tight the rationalization will quickly disintegrate under cursory examination. -- According to John Perry Barlow, "Jeff Davis is a truly gifted trouble-maker." |
#26
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Jeff Davis wrote:
TexasSkiNut wrote: For those of us predisposed to these occurences, even a small particle hitting just the wrong spot can trigger one. I had a tortilla chip cause one once, as did some red pepper on a sandwich bun. Not fun at all. I even have had one trigerred once by chomping on some ice. So, to answer the OP's question, YES, it is possible to "drown" in snow, but it is much more likely that you'd suffocate. [snip] So I can see asphyxiation and suffocation, but by your very denotation of dry drowning, one must first inhale water. Without the inhalation of water, there is no drowning. Good research. As Bill Clinton might say, define inhale. If you mean that water (or whatever substance acts as the trigger) must get past the larynx and into the windpipe, then I can assure you from my personal experience that laryngospasms can be triggered before that happens. And by my previous denotation (i.e. tortilla chips & red pepper), water does not have to be involved for a laryngospasm to occur. The ice example was merely to demonstrate that the H2O did not need to be in liquid form to trigger a laryngospasm. My research was out of necessity, as I had been having laryngospasms for about 26 years without any doctor ever using the term laryngospasm. They would all nod as I explained what was happening but none offered any useful information. Worst of all was the idiot allergist that misdiagnosed it as severe asthma when I was a teen and had my first attack. About 3 years ago, after two pretty severe attacks in the middle of the night as a byproduct of allergies (sinus drainage has caused probably 90% of my episodes) I got busy with Google and found out what it was called. Unfortunately I did not find any treatment for the condition nor useful suggestions for alleviating the attacks. Best I found was "try to avoid situations which might cause a laryngospasm". ObSki: skiing with tobacco or other stuff in my mouth would be a bad idea. Heck, I have to be careful when squirting water into my mouth from my bottle when biking or skiing. I've triggered an attack or two while biking. |
#27
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On 2006-03-10 09:47:32 -0700, "JQ" said:
I did something similar to this at Meadows on Mt. Hood. I was skiing with two friends and didn't see them turn and I followed two boarders. I stopped and heard my friends call to me, there was about 50 yards between me and them. So I headed towards them in un tracked snow not knowing it was so deep. As I got about 20 yards into this open area I realized that my poles wasn't hitting ground or any thing and I fell. The snow was about 5' deep I began to wonder how I was going to get out of this situation. My skis up on top of the snow and me deep down in the snow. I used me pole to get one of my skis off so I was able to stand on one leg with other still on top of the snow. I was really beginning to worry that I would have to dig my way to them. I struggled there for about 15 minutes trying to get back on top of the snow I did finally make it back up using my poles down in the snow. Lucky for me I had a lot of flexibility, I fell back down maybe three or four times trying to get the one ski back on. when I go it back on and was standing I just slide the skis across the snow almost like a cross country skier. I was exhausted when I finally got to my friends and they laughed at me for being so stupid. I normally ski in the east and we never get that much snow that you would sink so deep so that situation was new to me. Later that same day fog set so thick you couldn't see a thing and the goggles I was wearing that made it even worse. At the top of one run I couldn't see thing so I went to stop and fell. I had vertigo and didn't know up from down, whether I was moving or not. I began to panic knowing there was a 10' drop into some rocks not being able to see and thinking I was still sliding. I am kicking and flopping around like a fish out of water in all that movement my goggle got knocked off and I then noticed I wasn't moving at all. Again my friends had a real good laugh wondering what the hell I was doing. When I told them what had happened they were a little more understanding but still thought it was very funny watching me bouncing around. We went down to the lodge to buy some clear goggles and I threw out those other goggles, I wasn't going to go through that again. JQ illustrates clearly with this story why you should stay our of deep powder. That, and this: http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5829.html Be safe! Avoid the powder! You could drown! Mike... 8J -- See my ski photography at http://Powderday.us Carpe powder-diem |
#28
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Let Mikey Ski It! wrote:
why you should stay our of deep powder. That, and this: http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5829.html Be safe! Avoid the powder! You could drown! I think they're taking a leak on that tree ... |
#29
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#30
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TexasSkiNut wrote: Jeff Davis wrote: TexasSkiNut wrote: For those of us predisposed to these occurences, even a small particle hitting just the wrong spot can trigger one. I had a tortilla chip cause one once, as did some red pepper on a sandwich bun. Not fun at all. I even have had one trigerred once by chomping on some ice. So, to answer the OP's question, YES, it is possible to "drown" in snow, but it is much more likely that you'd suffocate. [snip] So I can see asphyxiation and suffocation, but by your very denotation of dry drowning, one must first inhale water. Without the inhalation of water, there is no drowning. Good research. As Bill Clinton might say, define inhale. If you mean that water (or whatever substance acts as the trigger) must get past the larynx and into the windpipe, then I can assure you from my personal experience that laryngospasms can be triggered before that happens. I'm wondering if one or more people in this convo are confusing dry drowning, which is caused by laryngospasm and in which no liquid enters the lungs, with secondary drowning AKA parking lot drowning. See http://users.ox.ac.uk/~oulsc/theory/drown.html for more info on these definitions. They make the point, BTW, that laryngospasm can be triggered by cold water immersion -- again, not necessarily any water in the lungs. My research was out of necessity, as I had been having laryngospasms for about 26 years without any doctor ever using the term laryngospasm. I had it exactly once, when I got hit in the face with a blast of water while kayaking. My mouth was open, and I guess it hit just right, because the ol' spasm happened. Fortunately, I already knew about the phenomenon. I just kept paddling and telling myself, "Take it easy, you've got a lungful of air, just wait it out," and it relaxed in plenty of time. It would have been super-scary had I not recognized it, though. |
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