getting used to new boots

Janet wrote:
lal_truckee wrote:


In any case the topic is recreational skiers - IMO their boots should
never hurt enough to require unbuckling - not even on extended breaks
like lunch - you put them on in the morning, you take them off when
you're done for the day - they stay on during the day. If unbuckling
relieves pain, get back to the shop that sold them and demand
adjustments.


Well, maybe you're comfortable walking around in ski boots that are
completely buckeled up, but a lot of people (including me) are not. It
has nothing to do with fit, pain, etc. I'm just not comfortable walking
in ski boots or standing in line so I will unbuckle when I go inside and
when I have to stand in a long lift line. I'm especially uncomfortable
walking up/down stairs in buckled up ski boots - I feel like
frankenstien... And in the east, most ski areas put the bathrooms
downstairs!

Janet

Hmm, interesting. Another point of view. I am quite uncomfortable if my
boots are NOT buckled when I'm walking in them. I find support from the
rear, but not the front most disconcerting. Further, I also find
flopping buckles (the top ones, the one or two lowers I hardly notice
either way) annoying. My natural inclination is to allow the front of
the boots to support my leg. If it's not, it feels weird. This is, of
course, my brain telling me that certain things are true and my body
finding out that it ain't so. I never have this reaction in any other
type of footwear.

At Killington, we have bathrooms upstairs and downstairs and at one
lodge the stair connects the bathrooms (K-1, formerly known as KBL).

If I know I have to walk a lot, I wear my AT boots. They have a cuff
release which allows the cuff to move freely in any fore-aft direction.
Some alpine boots have this feature. The AT boots have the added bonus
of a Vibram sole. They are not stiff enough to drive my high-end Volkls,
though, so I stay on my mid-fat Fischers.

VtSkier

On 2004-12-16, David Harris penned:
lal_truckee wrote in
:

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-16, DZN penned:

....

The response issue also makes new boots feel awkward - you may feel as if
you've forgotten how to ski. Be more aggressive - i.e. be as quick as your
boots - they will respond to any twitch, so make the twitches deliberately,
not accidentally. In short order you will be back on top of things and a
better skier.

I like this thinking. I remember moving to better skis that I could push
them harder and they would react faster. Faster than I thought possible -
each time you pushed them harder they would do things better and better -
the sort of things that only "really good" skiers could do.

My skis right now are of the "cheap and easy" variety -- now that I'm in
Colorado, I find that I ski a lot of early and late season, so skis that I
don't mind shredding are a must.

I suppose I should think about good skis, too. Sigh.

I don't think boots will have quite the same amount of effect, but push them
hard, try things you think you can't quite do, and see what happens.

I'm still not quite sure what this means. I have always viewed my limitations
as personal, not equipment-al =P

--
monique
Longmont, CO

On 2004-12-16, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

Presumably new boots will transmit induced forces to the binding/ski faster
and more accurately than your old boots (otherwise, why change?)

Well, in this case, at least 50% of the reason for change was that my old
boots never fit properly and always hurt. Now, the bootfitter's claim that
they could "eventually" get my old boots to look like anything I wanted
notwithstanding, I wanted boots that wouldn't hurt. As I'm skiing much more
challenging runs now than I used to be, the idea of getting a boot better
suited to my current and future ski style was also about half of the reason.
But to be honest, I'd rather have a pain-free boot than a boot perfectly
matched to my abilities.

Hence there are two issues - comfort and response. Most of the
conversation has focused on comfort - the boots shouldn't hurt; but
there may be a fitting period while the inner boot shifts around to
accommodate the details of your foot. That's reasonable, and the way
to make it happen is to put down some miles - go skiing.

Tomorrow, either Breck or Vail. I'm thinking Breck and a half or all-day
lesson, but then, I wonder if I should wait till my boots are fully broken in?
Hrmmm ...

I also think I have a free lesson in the PEAKS bank ... not sure if that
applies only to Vail, or if it applies to affiliates, too.

The response issue also makes new boots feel awkward - you may feel as
if you've forgotten how to ski. Be more aggressive - i.e. be as quick
as your boots - they will respond to any twitch, so make the twitches
deliberately, not accidentally. In short order you will be back on top
of things and a better skier.

Yes, it absolutely felt like I didn't know what I was doing.

If I can figure out what you mean by being aggressive, I will definitely do
it. Any other ways of saying the same thing? I've already found that this
boot demands that I keep my shins forward, which is a good thing and will
certainly help my technique, at the expense of my poor, sore legs =P

--
monique
Longmont, CO

On 2004-12-17, Janet penned:

Well, maybe you're comfortable walking around in ski boots that are
completely buckeled up, but a lot of people (including me) are not. It has
nothing to do with fit, pain, etc. I'm just not comfortable walking in ski
boots or standing in line so I will unbuckle when I go inside and when I
have to stand in a long lift line. I'm especially uncomfortable walking
up/down stairs in buckled up ski boots - I feel like frankenstien... And in
the east, most ski areas put the bathrooms downstairs!

I kinda like the skiboot swagger -- I feel like I'm about to star in a
barfight scene =)

The main reason I'm not comfortable walking in ski boots has nothing to do
with fit, pain, or the "unique" gait one acquires ... it's that ski boots
force your lower leg into an unaccustomed position, and it really tires me
out. I'd rather be able to walk with a straight lower leg.


--
monique
Longmont, CO

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-16, David Harris penned:

lal_truckee wrote in
:


Monique Y. Mudama wrote:

On 2004-12-16, DZN penned:


....

The response issue also makes new boots feel awkward - you may feel as if
you've forgotten how to ski. Be more aggressive - i.e. be as quick as your
boots - they will respond to any twitch, so make the twitches deliberately,
not accidentally. In short order you will be back on top of things and a
better skier.


I like this thinking. I remember moving to better skis that I could push
them harder and they would react faster. Faster than I thought possible -
each time you pushed them harder they would do things better and better -
the sort of things that only "really good" skiers could do.


My skis right now are of the "cheap and easy" variety -- now that I'm in
Colorado, I find that I ski a lot of early and late season, so skis that I
don't mind shredding are a must.

I suppose I should think about good skis, too. Sigh.


I don't think boots will have quite the same amount of effect, but push them
hard, try things you think you can't quite do, and see what happens.


I'm still not quite sure what this means. I have always viewed my limitations
as personal, not equipment-al =P

"good" skis don't necessarily have to cost all that much.
Demo a fair number, find out when manufacturer's demos are going to
occur at your area, figure out what you like, buy used demos at the end
of the year, cruise ebay for a while, take Bev's advice and cruise yard
sales, etc. The trick is to know what you want so that when you see them
for a good price, you can grab them without too much thought. The only
thoughts you should have when you reach this point concern the condition
of the skis you are considering.

Notice that this advice is NOTHING like my boot advice.

My experience is that skis are much less important to skiing than boots.
I just came back from Tahoe after skiing three days on near bottom of
the line rental skis. Had a blast, even on the crust at Alpine. Ask lal.

VtSkier

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-17, Janet penned:

Well, maybe you're comfortable walking around in ski boots that are
completely buckeled up, but a lot of people (including me) are not. It has
nothing to do with fit, pain, etc. I'm just not comfortable walking in ski
boots or standing in line so I will unbuckle when I go inside and when I
have to stand in a long lift line. I'm especially uncomfortable walking
up/down stairs in buckled up ski boots - I feel like frankenstien... And in
the east, most ski areas put the bathrooms downstairs!


I kinda like the skiboot swagger -- I feel like I'm about to star in a
barfight scene =)

The main reason I'm not comfortable walking in ski boots has nothing to do
with fit, pain, or the "unique" gait one acquires ... it's that ski boots
force your lower leg into an unaccustomed position, and it really tires me
out. I'd rather be able to walk with a straight lower leg.


I chimed into this thread a while ago and forgot to mention that I
*never* walk (especially in ski boots) when I can ski. I'll put the skis
on even when it means an uphill skate to get to the lift. I'll put my
skis on to slide down to the peak restaurant after getting off the
gondola so I don't have to walk 50 yards. etc.etc.

My earlier post was about walking in unbuckled boots.
VtSkier

VtSkier wrote:
Had a blast, even on the crust at Alpine. Ask lal.

True

VtSkier wrote in
:

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-16, David Harris penned:
....

I don't think boots will have quite the same amount of effect, but
push them hard, try things you think you can't quite do, and see what
happens.

I'm still not quite sure what this means. I have always viewed my
limitations as personal, not equipment-al =P

....
I just meant the very opposite: some of your limitations may have been
equipmental, and you may now be able to jump up a level in skiing, just
because of the equipment. This is based on switching
brands/shapes/lengths/uptodatedness of skis and being able to ski lines
that were just not possible the day before (or more realistically, not
possible to ski well...)

My experience is that skis are much less important to skiing than
boots. I just came back from Tahoe after skiing three days on near
bottom of the line rental skis. Had a blast, even on the crust at
Alpine. Ask lal.

VtSkier

That's good, but my experience is that skis are more important to skiing
ability than boots. Boots have to fit, but skis can make you better
immediately. Having said that, it's not an absolute: Better boots can
improve your skiing, and good skiers can make any equipment work. But
I'd rather ski in beginner boots and expert skis than vice versa.

dh

On 2004-12-19, David Harris penned:

That's good, but my experience is that skis are more important to skiing
ability than boots. Boots have to fit, but skis can make you better
immediately. Having said that, it's not an absolute: Better boots can
improve your skiing, and good skiers can make any equipment work. But I'd
rather ski in beginner boots and expert skis than vice versa.

It seems to me that beginner boots don't come in the (small) variety of shapes
that higher-end boots do, so you almost have to get a higher-performance boot
to get the right fit if you don't have "ski boot perfect" feet.

That being said, the differences from my first hand me down skis (165 K2
Gyrators, mogul skis) to my second hand me down skis (190 Atomic Arcs; I never
did have the thigh strength or skill to turn those beasts) to demoing my first
shape skis (168 Volkls, I swear I could turn them in a full circle they were
so nimble) to my first new skis (178 K2 Powers) to my current non-descript 168
Elans ... yeah, there were huge differences there. But the big differences I
noticed were in length and shaped vs. straight.

I do kinda miss those Gyrators. I was in such a hurry to "prove" myself
capable of skiing longer skis that I probably set my skiing back a few years.
And I wish I'd gone ahead and bought the Volkls; at the time I was still in
the "longer is better" mentality and couldn't imagine buying a short pair of
skis, no matter how fun they were. Stupid. I still fight that mentality
whenever I look at skis.

--
monique
Longmont, CO

David Harris wrote:

VtSkier wrote in
:

Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-16, David Harris penned:
....

That's good, but my experience is that skis are more important to
skiing
ability than boots. Boots have to fit, but skis can make you better
immediately. Having said that, it's not an absolute: Better boots
can
improve your skiing, and good skiers can make any equipment work.
But I'd rather ski in beginner boots and expert skis than vice
versa.

dh

I'm controverse, I would just ski in _my_ boots on any skies. OK not
Slalom racing carvers, tried those 2 weeks behind too hard for me.
(could master one of those 5 years before - Atomic betacarve ??)


--
Nobody is perfect
not even in failing