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Big-mountain or Short-turny



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 9th 05, 09:45 PM
corbeau
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Default Big-mountain or Short-turny

I posted this on my local snowboard website but would be interested the
thoughts from a broader audience too.

Background - I came to snowboarding pretty late, turn 40 in a month, and
age and multiple knee surgeries will prevent me from every progressing
beyond strong intermediacy. 175lbs and pretty fit. Admire freestyle
skills but no interest in developing them for myself. Currently usually
ride in hardboots because I have most fun at higher speed cruising on
moderate slopes. Lately, I've spent more time in softboots due to the
flexibility(of usage, not the boots themselves). I just sold a Donek
Wide as I've gotten to be most comfortable with more forward angles and
didn't need the extra width, would rather have the faster edge
transition. As far as actual runs go, I spend most of my time on the
longer blues trying to ride fast and smooth, forays offpiste but
inbounds in search of powder: Debbies and GoldNugget at Snoqualmie,
everything off Chair8 at Baker, all the long blues and sometimes easier
tree runs at Crystal and Stevens.

That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big-
mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes? Big-mountain
shapes would be things like the Winterstick Tom Burt 172, Steepwater 171
Steep, or a Donek Incline 168. They are all long, stiff and have long
sidecut radii. Good for stability at speed but not so turny for all the
bumps that always form two hours after a dump and tree runs.

The opposite end would be something like the Prior Khyber, Option
Northshore, etc(no Fish/Malolo, don't like the 3-hole mount). Supposedly
good in pow & tree but also fun for all-round use.

In the middle, all the stiffer freeride boards but most interested in
Prior MFR and Donek Incline due to excellent experiences with the boards
and customer service from the makers.

I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but
wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish
conditions.

C.
--
-she ain't revved 'til them rods is thrown...
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  #2  
Old January 9th 05, 10:40 PM
Brian
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Default

I'm on a Prior Men's Freeride this season, and love it... Check out what
I've had to say about it recently in this thread:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...345 30937a7e6

I almost went with a Khyber too, but am glad I didn't. I don't think a
powder
board would work well as a primary board, but would certainly make a fun
addition to your quiver!

Good luck! I'm sure you get some advice from the group.

Brian.


"corbeau" wrote in message
ews.com...
I posted this on my local snowboard website but would be interested the
thoughts from a broader audience too.

Background - I came to snowboarding pretty late, turn 40 in a month, and
age and multiple knee surgeries will prevent me from every progressing
beyond strong intermediacy. 175lbs and pretty fit. Admire freestyle
skills but no interest in developing them for myself. Currently usually
ride in hardboots because I have most fun at higher speed cruising on
moderate slopes. Lately, I've spent more time in softboots due to the
flexibility(of usage, not the boots themselves). I just sold a Donek
Wide as I've gotten to be most comfortable with more forward angles and
didn't need the extra width, would rather have the faster edge
transition. As far as actual runs go, I spend most of my time on the
longer blues trying to ride fast and smooth, forays offpiste but
inbounds in search of powder: Debbies and GoldNugget at Snoqualmie,
everything off Chair8 at Baker, all the long blues and sometimes easier
tree runs at Crystal and Stevens.

That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big-
mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes? Big-mountain
shapes would be things like the Winterstick Tom Burt 172, Steepwater 171
Steep, or a Donek Incline 168. They are all long, stiff and have long
sidecut radii. Good for stability at speed but not so turny for all the
bumps that always form two hours after a dump and tree runs.

The opposite end would be something like the Prior Khyber, Option
Northshore, etc(no Fish/Malolo, don't like the 3-hole mount). Supposedly
good in pow & tree but also fun for all-round use.

In the middle, all the stiffer freeride boards but most interested in
Prior MFR and Donek Incline due to excellent experiences with the boards
and customer service from the makers.

I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but
wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish
conditions.

C.
--
-she ain't revved 'til them rods is thrown...



  #3  
Old January 10th 05, 12:22 PM
Switters
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Default

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:45:36 GMT, corbeau
allegedly wrote:

I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but
wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish
conditions.


It's a tough call, especially when you're parting with cash.

You can obtain the high speed stability by having a stiffer board, and
reducing the overall length. This would then making fast turns in trees
and moguls a little easier. That said, things don't tend to get too bumpy
under Baker's C8, and a stiff board will track over the tracked out powder
a little nicer.

Personally I have a shorter but stiffer board for my general all round
beast. I might be able to charge my 181 under C5 when there's 2ft fresh,
but after the fresh has gone I'd need my 162. In a way, we like the same
things, so maybe this would work for you too.

- Dave.

--
The only powder to get high on, falls from the sky.
http://www.vpas.org/ - Snowboarding the worlds pow pow -
Securing your e-mail

The Snowboard FAQ lives here - http://rssFAQ.org/
  #4  
Old January 19th 05, 03:18 AM
Dmitry
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Default


"corbeau" wrote

transition. As far as actual runs go, I spend most of my time on the
longer blues trying to ride fast and smooth, forays offpiste but
inbounds in search of powder: Debbies and GoldNugget at Snoqualmie,
everything off Chair8 at Baker, all the long blues and sometimes easier
tree runs at Crystal and Stevens.

That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big-
mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes?

...
I like the specificity of the big-mountain models and the Khyber but
wonder which direction people find most effective for the PacNWish
conditions.


After trying quite a few boards over the last couple of years, it looks like
I've found a happy compromise in a medium length, medium to high
stiffness board with a tight sidecut.

I find that carving smooth blue runs I can basically do on anything, and
the amount of fun I get out of it doesn't really depend all that much on the
board, but more on comfort in the boots, binding setup, board tune (edge
sharpness, bevel, wax). Of course, I'm not talking noodle pure freestyle
boards, but pretty much anything else just works. (mind you, I could not
say that in the beginning of last year - takes some practice to get to this
stage).

Now, what comes next is where the board actually does make a big
difference for me. Bumps - need a short, light, turny, grippy board. If I
don't have something close to that, plus bindings that allow considerable range
of motion, I just can't do it. With the Channel Titanium and Nidecker freeride
bindings I could not, for the life of me, no matter how hard I tried, take a run
directly under chair 6 at Baker top to bottom without _at least_ 2 stops to
catch my breath. I could do it in one mad dash on my Nitro Shadow and
TechNine bindings with even some energy left in me, and it was very
satisfying because stops kick me off my rythm, dissipate concentration and
generally suck.

Same goes for tree runs and steeper smooth parts. When dropping into
a chute, if I don't plan to just bomb it, I want a very turny crisp short board
with as much edge grip as possible.

Some other considerations: in PacNW, perfect wide open groomed runs
are pretty scarce (Alpine Meadows comes to mind as a example where
they are plentiful). I find that on a really grippy stiff big freeride board I'm
just way too fast and have to hold back too much times for the sake of safety
(mine and others on the slope). This is quite frustrating, and a turny board
helps alleviate that - I can experience higher lateral accelerations at lower
speeds. The run under chair 8 at Baker (Daytona) is a good example - it
was quite a struggle for me this Sat on a BX board, it needs way too much
speed to get into the comfort zone. With all the beginners and skiers around,
I just coulnd't open it up as much as it deserved to most of the time. Oh, and
the Chute (the natural half-pipe close to the base of mid-station of lift 1) was
simply a disaster - I had to sideslip almost the entire length of the pipe itself,
not enough room/skill/strength/range of motion to turn that monster in two-three
boards wide rock lined icy path at 30+ degrees.. Quite humiliating considering
all the people on the lift watching you struggle with it

The boards that might fit your carving needs.. I'd recommend to try
Nitro Darkhorse, Shogun or Naturals, Prior MFR, Salomon Fastback,
or, if you can find it - Palmer Carbon Circle (looks like Clutch is the closest
analog of CC this year).


  #5  
Old January 19th 05, 03:26 AM
Dmitry
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Default


"Brian" wrote

I'm on a Prior Men's Freeride this season, and love it... Check out what
I've had to say about it recently in this thread:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...345 30937a7e6


I've read your review, and I agree with almost everything.

Tried MFR last April at Whistler (they said it was from their first
batch of '05 boards), and apart from what you already said, my
impressions we
- it has quite a dampened and rubbery feeling to it
- edge grip on ice is not very good

Other than that, I really enjoyed it, especially after all the
uber-stiff stuff I was on before. Had the same feeling as you
did when I could push it and get a lot out of it or I slack a
bit and not get punished for that. I was surprised at how good it
handled very high speeds despite the fact that it's not very
stiff, I guess dampening is the compromise they had to make to
achieve that trait. The one I was on sucked big time on steep
ice, but I wrote that off to it being a demo and edges to be far
from perfect.


  #6  
Old January 19th 05, 05:04 AM
Mike T
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Default

That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big-
mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes?


I haven't ridden a pintial (e.g. Fish, Khyber) yet but I do suspect you'd
miss the full-on tail on a board when carving the groomers. I wish I
remember more about how you ride in your hard boots @ TLine last May,
whether you like to make swooping C-shaped turns or whether you tend to
switch edges when point more downhill.. if the former, the pintails might
feel like they are realeasing a little early on you?

In any case, I think the Incline 168 or equivalent might be a bit much to
handle in trees, in soft boots. I've got an older one that has softened
somewhat and it's work in trees on softies, fine on plates, and I've got 20
pounds on you. Why not look at a shorter version of one of your
big-mountain choices... say an Incline 164 or the equivalent in one of your
other brands? A little shorter and softer would let you work it in trees
and bumps easier but I think you'd still have plenty of edge length and a
big enough sidecut to carve it nicely on the groomed. Or you could get a
big-mountain and a pintail, but I digress...

You guys get hit by the Pineapple Express as hard as we did? Mt Hood
Meadows's base went from an already-pathetic-and-dirt-showing 3 feet to 2
feet in about 24 hours, and when the water runs off I expect another 6 inch
loss... I suspect they are closed till the next dump.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

-Mike T



  #7  
Old January 19th 05, 05:31 PM
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I think the simple answer is to ride a few and see.

I detest soft boots, but I've ridden the Kyhber and lots of Fish using
proper hard bindings. The Kyhber feels (and is, as I rode it) longer
than the Fish and less dedicated, but it's still basically short and
turny, as opposed to big and cruisy. So you trade acceleration and
possibly stability at speed for agility in the trees. Most people get
the thing which works where it's toughest, hence the popularity of the
Fish in serious powder. But these are pure powder boards: I wouldn't
consider riding either in bumps or on hard piste. Of course it could be
done, but I wouldn't do it.

For piste stuff, you have the same choice (turny or cruisy), but you'd
be considering a different set of boards. Here it's more "do you want
to be the absolute fastest on the hill, or do you want to ride bumps".
Pick a board designed for one or the other.

I think you might want to figure out first how many boards you're
prepared to carry about with you. If you can stretch to two, then it's
easier because you can have a powder board and a piste board...

  #8  
Old January 19th 05, 06:35 PM
Edog
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Default


wrote:

For piste stuff, you have the same choice (turny or cruisy), but

you'd
be considering a different set of boards. Here it's more "do you want
to be the absolute fastest on the hill, or do you want to ride

bumps".
Pick a board designed for one or the other.


There are boards 'designed' for bumps?
I'm game. Who makes a bump board?

  #9  
Old January 20th 05, 02:26 AM
corbeau
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article aTlHd.7429$HT6.7056@trnddc04, says...
That being the case, what do you see as the tradeoff between a big-
mountain shape and some of the more turny tapered shapes?


I haven't ridden a pintial (e.g. Fish, Khyber) yet but I do suspect you'd
miss the full-on tail on a board when carving the groomers. I wish I
remember more about how you ride in your hard boots @ TLine last May,
whether you like to make swooping C-shaped turns or whether you tend to
switch edges when point more downhill.. if the former, the pintails might
feel like they are realeasing a little early on you?

In any case, I think the Incline 168 or equivalent might be a bit much to
handle in trees, in soft boots. I've got an older one that has softened
somewhat and it's work in trees on softies, fine on plates, and I've got 20
pounds on you. Why not look at a shorter version of one of your
big-mountain choices... say an Incline 164 or the equivalent in one of your
other brands? A little shorter and softer would let you work it in trees
and bumps easier but I think you'd still have plenty of edge length and a
big enough sidecut to carve it nicely on the groomed. Or you could get a
big-mountain and a pintail, but I digress...

You guys get hit by the Pineapple Express as hard as we did? Mt Hood
Meadows's base went from an already-pathetic-and-dirt-showing 3 feet to 2
feet in about 24 hours, and when the water runs off I expect another 6 inch
loss... I suspect they are closed till the next dump.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

-Mike T

Hi Mike. I'm more of the swoopy C-shape. My background was surfing so
I'm essentially trying to make big rail gouging bottom turns all the way
down. Since the weather is so terrible, I've put off this buying
decision although I'm thinking hard about one of the F2 speedcarves -
wider and shorter than my Prior 4wd 169. I'm actually thinking about
selling the Madd170 since it looks like I won't get to use it until next
season.

This season sucks... It was 60 deg today and rainy. Other than a short
cool spot later this weeks it looks like warm and wet is what we've got
for a while. My local hill had a 30" base that probably no longer
exists. I'm wondering if they'll even be able to reopen... Not a good
year to be a season passholder for a family of four!

Thomas
--
-she ain't revved 'til them rods is thrown...
 




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