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More reports on Start Grip Tape?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 12th 08, 03:37 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

I saw the post on the new Grip AND Glide treatments, which reminded me
that I have some Start Grip tape, but I've never used it. I'm getting
closer to giving it a try. I just love optimal skis. At the same time,
I find myself very often in TWO situations where my fuss-factor is a
bit high. So maybe the tape could cure this.

The first situation is when I ski on my local trails, especially my
yard trail. I have an idea what the wax will be and I go out and I'm
wrong---I suppose a fix there is to be sure to check the temp just
before I go out rather than 2 hours before...(doh!) Yesterday I went
for a quick half-hour ski---and changed wax 3 times---so I spent about
half of my time coming and going as I didn't carry any wax with me.
Anyway, maybe the tape could just nuke all that wasteage. Or maybe I
should try just being smarter as way to save that time! : )

The second situation is when I go on multi-hour tours on ungroomed
trails. We start in the a.m. and I find that I quite often stop and
start about 6 times in a long outing. It takes a couple stops until I
get my first morning wax dialed in. Then during the day as the temps
warm up I rewax two or three more times. But my skis almost always
have very tasty nice performance! ...Which is a great thing. Maybe I
should just accept the time-wasteage in quality waxing. (But I note
that this is where a study showed that a no-wax ski is faster for day-
touring than waxable due to the starts/stops of rewaxing.)

Generally I find that my nowax skis are lame---good kick, half-good
glide---but I use them in slushy/fresh conditions just to have some
fun. But I find that my waxies can usually be made to work about TWICE
as good as my nowaxies.

Is this tape going to feel too close to nowax lameness for comfort?

I value all my ski outings and my time. I don't really want to fuss
with this tape then screw up even one outing or put in one useless
shop session.

So do I stick with my tried'n'true methods that give great skis but
often have built-in time wasteage or try this new "simple" method that
might cut out all that wasteage and fooling around...

Ha!

--JP
Ads
  #2  
Old December 12th 08, 03:51 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Melinda Shore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 62
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

In article ,
Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com) wrote:
The first situation is when I ski on my local trails, especially my
yard trail. I have an idea what the wax will be and I go out and I'm
wrong---I suppose a fix there is to be sure to check the temp just
before I go out rather than 2 hours before...(doh!) Yesterday I went
for a quick half-hour ski---and changed wax 3 times---so I spent about
half of my time coming and going as I didn't carry any wax with me.
Anyway, maybe the tape could just nuke all that wasteage. Or maybe I
should try just being smarter as way to save that time! : )


I picked some up last year but we didn't get much snow and I
was only able to get out on it 3 or 4 times. The main thing
is that the stuff has an incredibly wide temperature range
and the constant rewaxing situation just doesn't come up.

Is this tape going to feel too close to nowax lameness for comfort?


That's not my experience. Also, Start has a new "sport"
tape this year that's a little thinner. Apparently it's a
little less grippy and a little faster. You may want to
give that a try.

I value all my ski outings and my time. I don't really want to fuss
with this tape then screw up even one outing or put in one useless
shop session.


I think that's a little short-sighted. FWIW it goes on
really easily but is kind of disgusting to clean off. Give
it a shot. Or give it a shot on skis you don't use that
often.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #3  
Old December 12th 08, 04:25 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

I keep the older Start tape on one pair of skis to use on days when
it's needed. Doesn't take to ice real well, tho, or days above about
35F. This year I've shortened it to klister length to see about less
drage, but so far haven't needed to use them.

Gene

(Melinda Shore) wrote:


I picked some up last year but we didn't get much snow and I
was only able to get out on it 3 or 4 times. The main thing
is that the stuff has an incredibly wide temperature range
and the constant rewaxing situation just doesn't come up.

  #4  
Old December 13th 08, 08:19 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Gunde
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

Jeff,

Here in western Colorado, I found the tape to be just too much kick
and not enough glide. Our snow is most often cold and dry since we are
at 10kft+
http://gmnc.info

Even during spring-like klister conditions, it performs less well than
either klister or my waxless ski. And like Gene said, it is a pain to
clean off. So it kind of locks you into putting it on and leaving it
on one pair of skis. Your upper midwest snows are different. But I
have given up on the product. Besides I enjoy waxing.

On Dec 12, 8:37*am, "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)"
wrote:
I saw the post on the new Grip AND Glide treatments, which reminded me
that I have some Start Grip tape, but I've never used it. I'm getting
closer to giving it a try. I just love optimal skis. At the same time,
I find myself very often in TWO situations where my fuss-factor is a
bit high. So maybe the tape could cure this.

The first situation is when I ski on my local trails, especially my
yard trail. I have an idea what the wax will be and I go out and I'm
wrong---I suppose a fix there is to be sure to check the temp just
before I go out rather than 2 hours before...(doh!) Yesterday I went
for a quick half-hour ski---and changed wax 3 times---so I spent about
half of my time coming and going as I didn't carry any wax with me.
Anyway, maybe the tape could just nuke all that wasteage. Or maybe I
should try just being smarter as way to save that time! : )

The second situation is when I go on multi-hour tours on ungroomed
trails. We start in the a.m. and I find that I quite often stop and
start about 6 times in a long outing. It takes a couple stops until I
get my first morning wax dialed in. Then during the day as the temps
warm up I rewax two or three more times. But my skis almost always
have very tasty nice performance! ...Which is a great thing. Maybe I
should just accept the time-wasteage in quality waxing. (But I note
that this is where a study showed that a no-wax ski is faster for day-
touring than waxable due to the starts/stops of rewaxing.)

Generally I find that my nowax skis are lame---good kick, half-good
glide---but I use them in slushy/fresh conditions just to have some
fun. But I find that my waxies can usually be made to work about TWICE
as good as my nowaxies.

Is this tape going to feel too close to nowax lameness for comfort?

I value all my ski outings and my time. I don't really want to fuss
with this tape then screw up even one outing or put in one useless
shop session.

So do I stick with my tried'n'true methods that give great skis but
often have built-in time wasteage or try this new "simple" method that
might cut out all that wasteage and fooling around...

Ha!

--JP


  #5  
Old December 15th 08, 08:23 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

I've used grip tape twice and thing it is really, really good.

I've been skiing since the mid-70s and believe I'm a competent waxer.
I"m not a serious racer, but do race in citizen races. I am possibly
not the most particular grip waxer in the world, but do get it when
the kick and glide are both terrific. On the other hand, I will
sacrifice glide for kick any day. The only bad wax days are when the
kick is not solid.

That said, I believe my grip tape performs as well if not better than
my ski-mate's regular waxing more than 80% of the time in all
conditions from new, cold snow to about 30 degrees F. I would say -
roughly - that my grip tape is almost always at least as good, and
usually better for both grip and glide 99.9% of the time in all
conditions from +10F to +25F in established tracks.

I've found that the worst case in my area for grip tape is cold, new
snow (-10F - 0F) where the grip tape does get a bit draggy. In those
conditions, it is very skiable, but doesn't glide as well as a
decently waxed ski. However, the deficiency is not enough to
counteract the simplicity and time savings (and hassle savings) of
just putting being able to put the skis on and go. I probably
wouldn't be happy with the deficiency in a race (what passes for
racing for me - mid-back of the pack), but is very tolearable in rec
skiing and training groups as I never get behind because if it.


Durability: last year I used it for about 50K and it began to show
signs of wear. The conditions that did it in were very icy and any
snow plowing, skate-turns, parallel turns, etc, just wore it off. The
kick/glide action did not.

I put new tape on last spring, but don't really know how many K's I
put on it before putting the skis away for the summer. At least 30 or
so though. I stored the skis with the grip tape covered with wax
paper inside my ski bag (the way I store all my family's skis: hard
(~CH 6) storage wax, inside a bag to keep dust off). I simply scrape
the hard storage wax and ski until the skis need new wax.

I've been using last spring's grip tape this season for at least
another 75 km for a total of over 100km. The tape shows no
significant wear other than a little at the front and back which is
probably because I mis-estimated the correct zone for the tape. I
believe I'll get at least another 50 km or more.

When I have fresh snow, I often put 2 inches of conventional hard wax
in front of and behind the grip tape, just as I would wax longer in
shearing conditions. This works great.

My next experiment is to try waxing over the grip tape in very cold
conditions to see if I can mitigate the draggy-ness a little. I would
plan to wax with a very hard/cold grip wax. Worst case is that it
will ruin the grip tape, but I'll be happy to replace it.

I put grip tape on my wife's skis this fall and she has told that she
thought it felt imperfect (imperfect grip and glide) but once she got
her balance back and concentrated on her kick, she felt the kick was
almost always as good or better than she could wax herself. When she
skis with her friends (all middle aged women, VERY recreational
types), she always feels her skis grip and glide better than theirs.
She's happy with it.

Again, I've kick-waxed for 30 years. I know how to do it. But I am
really sold on grip tape and feel that although I could possibly
(POSSIBLY) out perform it with day-specific wax, this is very rare,
and nowhere near the benefit of the ease and performance of grip tape.


  #6  
Old December 16th 08, 12:21 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

On Dec 15, 12:23*pm, wrote:
I've used grip tape twice and thing it is really, really good.

snip

That said, I believe my grip tape performs as well if not better than
my ski-mate's regular waxing more than 80% of the time in all
conditions from new, cold snow to about 30 degrees F. * I would say -
roughly - that my grip tape is almost always at least as good, and
usually better for both grip and glide 99.9% of the time in all
conditions from +10F to +25F in established tracks.

snip

The Start Grip Tape is marked as good up to +5C (over 40F). Given
that the difficulty in waxing is for air temperatures around freezing
and for ski tours that start at below 0C in the morning, rise to above
0C mid-day to early afternoon, then drop below 0C, the question is how
wide a range does the Grip Tape really work.

Does Grip tape work for both fine grained (new and old) snow and for
course grained (e.g. refrozen) old snow? By "work", I am thinking in
terms of touring and in comparison to patterned skis.

The third question is, does Grip Tape work with high humidity snow?
We have a lot of high humidity conditions near 0C here on the left
coast.
  #7  
Old December 17th 08, 04:13 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

Well, I only have one pair of daily skis, but I went and put on the
tape. It was easy to install. It's very thin and sticky.

Then I took it out on thinly covered trails, with lots of leaves,
about 25F, packed, uneven, a good bit icy.

It seemed to work pretty good!

It did stop/balk me a bit on the leaves---but what wouldn't. Only a
few items stuck into the tape---easily removed.

It seemed to glide just fine. The kick was a bit sketchy---but then
I'm starting with a minimum amount of tape. I'm using touring skis and
I'm going from the heel to 3" in front of binding. Basically the
klister zone. I started even shorter then added an inch fore and aft.
It didn't seem to help that much. Maybe it's mostly the hard, icy,
uneven track.

Then it rained. And froze. Now it's snowing again. I'm hoping for
enough snow soon---tomorrow!---to try it again. Well, I'm stuck with
it in any case, unless it proves to be really lame. But so far so
good!

--JP
  #8  
Old December 17th 08, 04:36 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 572
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

Yeah, ice is not the best place to test grip tape in my experience.
My hunch would be to go a bit forward instead of back, since even the
heel is usually the back of the normal kick zone, if not sometimes
further back than it depending on the flex.

Gene

"Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote:

Well, I only have one pair of daily skis, but I went and put on the
tape. It was easy to install. It's very thin and sticky.

Then I took it out on thinly covered trails, with lots of leaves,
about 25F, packed, uneven, a good bit icy.

It seemed to work pretty good!

It did stop/balk me a bit on the leaves---but what wouldn't. Only a
few items stuck into the tape---easily removed.

It seemed to glide just fine. The kick was a bit sketchy---but then
I'm starting with a minimum amount of tape. I'm using touring skis and
I'm going from the heel to 3" in front of binding. Basically the
klister zone. I started even shorter then added an inch fore and aft.
It didn't seem to help that much. Maybe it's mostly the hard, icy,
uneven track.

Then it rained. And froze. Now it's snowing again. I'm hoping for
enough snow soon---tomorrow!---to try it again. Well, I'm stuck with
it in any case, unless it proves to be really lame. But so far so
good!

--JP

  #9  
Old December 18th 08, 07:26 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default More reports on Start Grip Tape?

On Dec 15, 3:21*pm, wrote:
On Dec 15, 12:23*pm, wrote: I've used grip tape twice and thing it is really, really good.

snip

That said, I believe my grip tape performs as well if not better than
my ski-mate's regular waxing more than 80% of the time in all
conditions from new, cold snow to about 30 degrees F. * I would say -
roughly - that my grip tape is almost always at least as good, and
usually better for both grip and glide 99.9% of the time in all
conditions from +10F to +25F in established tracks.


snip

The Start Grip Tape is marked as good up to +5C (over 40F). *Given
that the difficulty in waxing is for air temperatures around freezing
and for ski tours that start at below 0C in the morning, rise to above
0C mid-day to early afternoon, then drop below 0C, the question is how
wide a range does the Grip Tape really work.

Does Grip tape work for both fine grained (new and old) snow and for
course grained (e.g. refrozen) old snow? *By "work", I am thinking in
terms of touring and in comparison to patterned skis.

The third question is, does Grip Tape work with high humidity snow?
We have a lot of high humidity conditions near 0C here on the left
coast.


Hopefully someone else will be able to help you on this. The
conditions you describe I don't ski in very much - I'm in a pretty
cold, dry place and these days mostly ski in groomed tracks that have
old snow.
 




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