Copper's Snow Report and Used Cars

At the beginning of the season someone noted that Copper was advertising
for someone (to paraphrase my recollection) write Copper's snow reports
with enthusiasm. It apparently found the person.

Here is yesterday's lead line (repeated again today):

"Over 18 inches of the good stuff has graced the Copper slopes this month!"

Now I would guess the average, unsuspecting person reading these things
would think that the slopes are full of snow. I would guess that's why
Copper writes this stuff. And, these reports are probably technically
correct. (Though the Copper site itself says there has only been 17
inches this month.) Yet, this sort of statement is very misleading.

The vast majority of this month's snow came at the beginning of the
month. I don't think there's been more than several inches in the last
couple weeks. The slopes at Copper are "graced" not only with snow but
with many rocks and bare spots. Almost any lift ride leads to
conversations about how we really need more snow. This weekend lift
attendants shrugged when I asked where there was good coverage.

This puffery is the kind of misleading stuff that - while perhaps
technically true - requires one to pay so much attention that it seems
more like dealing with a used car dealer rather than a resort.

Moreover, it's really unnecessary. Unless Copper is actually trying to
sneak one past the unsuspecting visitor, why would it put stuff like
this in its snow report. The Winter Park site, for example, simply
gives the totals. In fact, WP has a useful little two week snowfall
graph on the bottom of its report. Copper doesn't need to say stuff
like this.

I just cannot think this sort of thing is good for the ski industry.
Would someone who doesn't ski here regularly and who has booked a pricey
vacation be happy when they show up? I wouldn't take a set of new skis
- if I had one - down most of the ungroomed slopes (despite all the snow
that fell on the first weekend of January.)

Varanasi Benares wrote:

(Though the Copper site itself says there has only been 17
inches this month.)

I wonder whether Copper reads this group. Seems it changed the reported
snow in the last hour or so. The monthly total is now 18 inches.

Varanasi Benares wrote:

At the beginning of the season someone noted that Copper was advertising
for someone (to paraphrase my recollection) write Copper's snow reports
with enthusiasm. It apparently found the person.

Here is yesterday's lead line (repeated again today):

"Over 18 inches of the good stuff has graced the Copper slopes this month!"

Sadly, Copper is not the only one doing this. I was sitting in the
parking lot of the Safeway in Frisco on Saturday morning listening to
KSMT. The Breck snow report came on. They were reporting 1" new in the
last 24 hours, and 17" new in the last 15 days. I could not stop
laughing. What kind of idiots do they take us for? 1" in 24 hours gets
skiied off before 10am, much less 17" over the past 15 days.

The marketing department at Copper has always tried to massage the snow
reports to make it look better than it is. I still remember the
conversation I had with one of the head marketeers when I introduced him
to r.s. (this was before rsa and rsam). If I had posted that garbage,
my credibility in these groups would have been destroyed, Copper would
have been a laughing stock (though they seemt o be trying for that
again), and I would have had to stop posting my CSDR's forever. I
couldn't let that happen, so I proceeded to try and explain the reality
of the world to someone who doesn't live in it. Marketing folks
definitely have their own reality, and it doesn't coincide with what the
rest of us experience.

I hope they are reading this group, but I doubt it. And if they are,
they will likely never admit to it. It is more likely someone
complained on their forums. But the complaint may not be there anymore,
as they tend to censor things.

JH - if you are reading this, drop me a note. We would all be curious to
know why you guys think we aren't so smart...
----------------------
Chester Bullock,
Colorado Mountain Cams, Snow Conditions, Opinionated Reports
http://www.black-diamond.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

On 2004-01-20, Varanasi Benares penned:

This puffery is the kind of misleading stuff that - while perhaps
technically true - requires one to pay so much attention that it seems
more like dealing with a used car dealer rather than a resort.

I agree, but at the same time, I think a person would have to be ...
well, let's be nice and call it naive .... to not read between the
lines. They're in the business of making money. They do this by
enticing people to their lifts. If the only thing they can think of to
brag about is seasonal snow accumulation, there's no new snow. If they
skip talk of snow and instead talk about their great restaurants,
shopping, etc, there's no new snow.

If they don't explicitly state that there's been new snow in the last
day or two, I guarantee that there has been no new snow.

weather.com recognizes a lot of ski resorts by name. Their 10-day
forecast is useful, although they rate resorts by weather "comfort
level" (sunshine and warmth) rather than by snow quantity.

--
monique

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:47:23 CST, "Monique Y. Herman"
wrote:

I agree, but at the same time, I think a person would have to be ...
well, let's be nice and call it naive .... to not read between the
lines. They're in the business of making money. They do this by
enticing people to their lifts.

Of course. However they could say something like

"sparse cover with rocks, hardpack, 70 inches of snow since Sept. 15,
free tallboys after every run" and still expect a good crowd. I know
I'd think about showing up.

I think Chester is demanding creativity with integrity and a worldwide
snow reporting standard. Its not too much to ask for is it? Then
again, I enjoy reading a good snow report when it snows. It pumps
you up.

I believe that Chester wants them to stop crying wolf about snow.
When it snows and its good say so. The marketers could use promotions
like free beer, hooters girls, on site caucus coverage, etc., to lure
skiers to the resort rather than spin doctoring.

nate

uglymoney wrote:

Of course. However they could say something like

"sparse cover with rocks, hardpack, 70 inches of snow since Sept. 15,
free tallboys after every run" and still expect a good crowd. I know
I'd think about showing up.

That is one snow report I would love to see, but I don't think it will
happen.

I think Chester is demanding creativity with integrity and a worldwide
snow reporting standard. Its not too much to ask for is it? Then
again, I enjoy reading a good snow report when it snows. It pumps
you up.

Integrity is the key here. To most marketeers this is a foreign word.

I believe that Chester wants them to stop crying wolf about snow.
When it snows and its good say so. The marketers could use promotions
like free beer, hooters girls, on site caucus coverage, etc., to lure
skiers to the resort rather than spin doctoring.

I just want straight up honesty. The other things cost them money.
There is a hard cost associated with free beer (although you could
likely get a brewer to throw in some free beer for the free marketing
exposure). Not being honest has got to be costing them money. Maybe
not today. But in the long run people are going to step up and say
"God, I'll never go there again. They lie about their conditions."

Marketeers don't seem to understand that the world is changing. The
Internet is bringing about a huge change in how people get their
information. I can quickly publish a report from the guy who sits
across the aisle from me saying how bad Copper was this past Sunday. Do
you think that will weigh more than the "official" report from the
mountain? Hell yes it will.

OK, time to go home, getting off the soap box.
----------------------
Chester

'Tis a brave man who wears the kilt in January.

Chester Bullock wrote:

Snip interesting comments about Copper Mtn
My fav was an e-mail I got from them Jan 8th:

Hello Samuel,

How's this for a public display of affection? Twenty
great ways for us to show our true appreciation for
Copper Season Pass holders. Twenty great ways for you to
show your appreciation for the place you love. And if
that's not enough, we just got two feet of new snow! The
conditions are incredible and these deals are too.
So get up here, you'll be glad you did.

Thats all I got. What are the "twenty great ways"?
I have a 4 pack, not a season pass.
The e-mail was in html, and god only knows what they
did to make sure I DIDN'T get the entire message.
Hey ****heads, how about plain test. I bet someone
is "earning" an income off generating this useless e-mail.

Sam "Still waiting for the real Ullr to cover up the rocks" Seiber

On 2004-01-20, Sam Seiber penned:
Chester Bullock wrote:

Snip interesting comments about Copper Mtn My fav was an e-mail I got
from them Jan 8th:

Hello Samuel,

How's this for a public display of affection? Twenty great ways for us
to show our true appreciation for Copper Season Pass holders. Twenty
great ways for you to show your appreciation for the place you love.
And if that's not enough, we just got two feet of new snow! The
conditions are incredible and these deals are too. So get up here,
you'll be glad you did.

Thats all I got. What are the "twenty great ways"? I have a 4 pack,
not a season pass. The e-mail was in html, and god only knows what
they did to make sure I DIDN'T get the entire message. Hey ****heads,
how about plain test. I bet someone is "earning" an income off
generating this useless e-mail.

Sam "Still waiting for the real Ullr to cover up the rocks" Seiber


I would also like plain text, and have complained to them. I use mutt
-- changed the content-type to plain text and fished out the urls. Some
pretty good deals, actually. The one in particular that caught my eye
was a $25 adv/intermediate lesson.

--
monique

Chester Bullock wrote:

uglymoney wrote:

Of course. However they could say something like

"sparse cover with rocks, hardpack, 70 inches of snow since Sept. 15,
free tallboys after every run" and still expect a good crowd. I know
I'd think about showing up.

That is one snow report I would love to see, but I don't think it will
happen.

Just like there are very few CO ski areas that will admit to HP (Hard
pack)
conditions. Winter Park, Eldora & Telluride reported such conditions in
this mornings Rocky Mtn News (print edition). Seems to me, I never see
that from the other areas. I understand Keystone this weekend had
HP, but reported PP. Hey kids, if the snow report is just showing
PP, they really mean HP.

Sam

Chester Bullock wrote:

The marketing department at Copper ...

They have a marketing department? I figured otherwise with their slogan
"Where the skiers ski and the boarders ride". I bet it took someone over a
minute to come up with that.

Maybe we should have a "lamest ski area slogan" contest. Anyone have
another entry?

Mike...

--
Littleton, Colorado (reply to msaemisch at yahoo dot com)
See my ski photography at: http://PowderDay.us
Carpe powder-diem