prettiest view in the world?

Yes, there are some spectacular views skiing up way _high_ at the south ends
of the Val d'Herens, like
http://roberts-1.com/t/hra/day_3

Andrew Bolger wrote
how about Val d'Herens in the Valais, Switzerland?
I've not been there in winter but it's wonderful in summer, has xc trails
(and
the Haute Route) and is said to be just as good if not better in winter.

But where are the _groomed_ cross country ski trails in that valley? Does
one of them get to one those big spectacular views up high?

The typical limitation of groomed-trail cross country skiing in the European
Alps is that the tracks are confined narrowly to the bottom of a long
glacier valley.

Pretty views, yes -- but you're always looking _up_ at things. And a day of
skiing tends to be one long gentle (pretty) climb up, then one long gentle
(fun) descent back down to the starting point. (Another reason I'm glad I
put so much work into learning to skate slowly up hills this winter.)

For me that style of ski tour gets old. That's why I keep looking for
special XC ski centers in Europe that have more variety of skiing on rolling
terrain: like La Feclaz (because it's on a plateau, not a valley), Bessans
(because it's at a big wide flat area in a truly giant valley), Les Saisies
(because it's up by a mountain pass) -- and probably some areas in the Jura.
(That's also why I like to do other kinds of skiing on different days, like
randonnee and off-piste downhill, not just following groomed tracks.)

For Switzerland the puzzle is not in finding a big spectacular mountain
view, it's in finding exactly which groomed cross country ski trails
actually deliver that view. (? How about Pontresina as an area with some
variety of XC ski trails and some interesting views, though not "prettiest
in the world" ?)

Ken

Richard Jefferies' observation that it is better to have a deep
understanding of a few home acres than a superficial knowledge
of the world.

What's better is to have both.
Even better than that is a deep appreciation of home, plus a deepening
knowledge of one other place.

For me it was travelling widely that enabled me to discover and appreciate
the special qualities of the Hudson Valley where I grew up.

I also have lots of fun with _local_ exploring, as my reports on this
newsgroup and on our local MHXCSS group show. Like Sharon and me finding a
rather pretty ski route on Manhattan island:
http://roberts-1.com/t/xc034/ma/c

Rural Michigan surely has plenty of quiet beauty, but the views around the
New York metro area and Hudson Valley have way more variety and excitement
in them. And as many decades of bright Mid-Western farm kids coming to the
big City can testify:
so does the living.

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:

Yes, there are some spectacular views skiing up way _high_ at the south ends
of the Val d'Herens, like
http://roberts-1.com/t/hra/day_3

Well now, THAT is GORGEOUS.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... with radically relevant novels from the ULA & LiteraryRevolution.com! ...

... free music! ... tons o' articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW!
800-763-6923

The photo art of Michigan Gray is now up at my site. : )

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... with radically relevant novels from the ULA & LiteraryRevolution.com!
....
... free music! ... tons o' articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW!
800-763-6923

On 6/4/04 2:40 am, "Jeff Potter"
wrote:

J999w wrote:

Prettiest view in the world of XC?

How about from the top of the podium?

Maybe someday. If the right people don't show up, eh Jay? : )

Regarding the 19thC writer, how about Thoreau, who said he "traveled
widely in Concord." : )

I'm someone who's very tempted by 'grass is greener'-itis and have
followed it globally for decades...so the past few years I've worked
hard on screwing my eyes into good enough focus to see that here is
cool, too.

..The minimalls, pavement, pro-sports-fans, TVheads and salesmen don't
make it very easy, though.

..Neither does the frickin lack of hills and decent water.

It takes a lot of squinting to see the beauty in a drainage ditch. But I
did it growing up and am doing it now. A friend wrote a GREAT essay
called "Paddling the Ditches of Meridian Township" on my OYB site years
back. It's still there. I'm not the only one stuck in this boat. But I
do feel weird about forcing my kids to be exposed to it. So we bought
that little lot up in Idlewild. We'll see how that plays out. Next week
I plan to take the nippers down to the local muddy trickle to see if we
can find some crayfish. No trout, but crayfish can be heaven to a kid.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...

... with radically relevant novels from the ULA &
LiteraryRevolution.com! ...
... free music! ... tons o' articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW!
800-763-6923





Sounds like my magnum opus (Bolger, A. forthcoming) The skibale ditches of N
Derbyshire. Must check it out.

I agree with you in general about trenchlike Alpine valleys. As I said I've
only been to Val d'Herens in the summer when it was equisite, looking across
from verdant terraces to hanging glaciers. I believe that there are groomed
xc trails around La Sage but I don't expect that they are very extensive but
we said pretty not big.
andyb
On 6/4/04 1:15 pm, "Ken Roberts" wrote:

Yes, there are some spectacular views skiing up way _high_ at the south ends
of the Val d'Herens, like
http://roberts-1.com/t/hra/day_3

Andrew Bolger wrote
how about Val d'Herens in the Valais, Switzerland?
I've not been there in winter but it's wonderful in summer, has xc trails
(and
the Haute Route) and is said to be just as good if not better in winter.

But where are the _groomed_ cross country ski trails in that valley? Does
one of them get to one those big spectacular views up high?

The typical limitation of groomed-trail cross country skiing in the European
Alps is that the tracks are confined narrowly to the bottom of a long
glacier valley.

Pretty views, yes -- but you're always looking _up_ at things. And a day of
skiing tends to be one long gentle (pretty) climb up, then one long gentle
(fun) descent back down to the starting point. (Another reason I'm glad I
put so much work into learning to skate slowly up hills this winter.)

For me that style of ski tour gets old. That's why I keep looking for
special XC ski centers in Europe that have more variety of skiing on rolling
terrain: like La Feclaz (because it's on a plateau, not a valley), Bessans
(because it's at a big wide flat area in a truly giant valley), Les Saisies
(because it's up by a mountain pass) -- and probably some areas in the Jura.
(That's also why I like to do other kinds of skiing on different days, like
randonnee and off-piste downhill, not just following groomed tracks.)

For Switzerland the puzzle is not in finding a big spectacular mountain
view, it's in finding exactly which groomed cross country ski trails
actually deliver that view. (? How about Pontresina as an area with some
variety of XC ski trails and some interesting views, though not "prettiest
in the world" ?)

Ken

What time of year was your trip? I'm jealous.
andyb
On 6/4/04 3:17 pm, "Jeff Potter"
wrote:



Ken Roberts wrote:

Yes, there are some spectacular views skiing up way _high_ at the south ends
of the Val d'Herens, like
http://roberts-1.com/t/hra/day_3

Well now, THAT is GORGEOUS.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ...
... with radically relevant novels from the ULA & LiteraryRevolution.com! ...

... free music! ... tons o' articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW!
800-763-6923

Andrew Bolger asked
What time of year was your trip?

Those tours in Switzerland were done right around now.

After lots of folks on this newsgroup already declared snow skiing to be
"over".

Views like those are why Sharon and I normally keep skiing into May every
year. And the warmth and sunshine. And the more consistent snow quality
and more predictable avalanche conditions. Including this year.

As I said I've only been to Val d'Herens in the summer . . .

Yes, I thought you had been very careful to explain the context of your
knowledge.

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:
Or perhaps more in keeping with the "prettiest view" in XC skiing theme,
drive west from the airport to Rjukan. (wonder if we could make it there in
time to ski the first day?)

I just came back from 8 days of skiing the Rjukan mountains, even with
Easter traffic it took just 2 hours 45 mins from Hardangervidda via
Rjukan and Kongsberg to Oslo.

Driving on to Gardermoen would have added about 35 more minutes.

Besides, there's a very regular (hourly) bus schedule from Oslo to
several cities in Telemark.

Terje

--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Sounds like flying into Oslo and skiing the first afternoon in Rjukan would
work -- thanks Terje.

And someone actually did it in France a couple of weeks ago: My friend
Craig got off the airplane at the Geneva airport on Saturday morning after
flying all the way from Salt Lake City, and skated at La Feclaz that
afternoon. It was winter conditions in mid-April with new snow. They had
groomed the trails nicely, but when I tried to purchase a badge for skiing,
the man said "gratuit" -- no charge for that day.

We skated again at Bessans last weekend, and made a surprise discovery of
another candidate trail for "prettiest". Bessans (www.bessans.com) is an
hour or so east from Albertville, and has been the venue for several recent
elite ski-and-shoot Biathlon events. The whole setting of the quiet village
and ski trails rather spectacular -- perhaps the gentlest trail system in
France, yet surrounded by big dramatic mountains. The trails were nicely
groomed, but the woman at the ski "nordique" center said "gratuit".
(Interesting how I've seen several French XC ski centers groom many more km
than they advertise, and keep on grooming without fee after the official
"ski season" is finished).

But the surprise "prettiest" trail was when Craig and I decided to try one
of the green ("tres facile" = very easy) trails on the edge of the "espace
nordique Bessans" trail map. And then the trail kept going and going and
started climbing southeast up this big valley, and we skated past a little
village of stone houses and isolated shepherd's huts. It was not "very
easy" any more -- some parts more like "tres difficile" -- so Craig and I
had to stop and rest several times, but it didn't matter since it was so
pleasant just to be there. The trail was no longer groomed smooth, but
still well-packed and wide and very skate-able. It looked like the packing
was done not by the ski center grooming machine, but by a "snowcat" vehicle
being used for transportation up and down the valley.

We reached another village of stone houses which we figured must be Averole.
It seemed deserted in mid-April: We were way out beyond the network of ski
trails shown on the "espace nordique Bessans" map. Then I spotted a "hut"
up beyond the village, must be the Refuge d'Averole. Craig said he had gone
far enough, but I saw the skating track continuing, and I thought there
would be people up at the Refuge, so I gave him the car keys.

Going up to the Refuge turned out to be the toughest skating I ever did:
very steep beyond the village. Good thing I had practiced Peter's
suggestion of skating switchbacks (going wide into the ungroomed snow), or I
would not have made it. Finally I arrived at the Refuge, and there was the
big snowcat vehicle. Four skiers picnicking out front greeted me in
Italian. The hut-guardian switched effortlessly to English as soon as she
heard one sentence of my attempt at ordering a drink in French -- so I had
some hot chocolate and soup and bread. Then used my best downhill
techniques to descend those steep slopes to the village. There was Craig --
he had taken a nap right there beside the trail instead of going back to the
car. So we skied back down together to Bessans.

I think it's about 10 km and 300 vertical meters (1000 ft) of climbing to
the village of Averole from the Besssans nordique depart, (or 5 km and 100
vertical meters if go up only far as the village of Vincendieres). For
those who must, climbing to the Refuge adds another 200 vertical meters --
with some sections so steep that next time I'll bring climbing skins.

Glad I spent so much time this year practicing skating up long hills slowly.
The European Alps offer several very rewarding examples.

Ken
__________________________________________________ _
Terje Mathisen wrote
Ken Roberts wrote:
Or perhaps more in keeping with the "prettiest view" in XC skiing theme,
drive west from the airport to Rjukan. (wonder if we could make it
there in
time to ski the first day?)

I just came back from 8 days of skiing the Rjukan mountains, even with
Easter traffic it took just 2 hours 45 mins from Hardangervidda via
Rjukan and Kongsberg to Oslo.

Driving on to Gardermoen would have added about 35 more minutes.

Besides, there's a very regular (hourly) bus schedule from Oslo to
several cities in Telemark.

Terje
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"