my second day of skiing :)

After riding some good powder Saturday at Baker it only
made sense to go skiing in the rain at Snoqualmie on
Sunday, so that's what I did

For now, looks like skiing is quite a bit easier than boarding
in terms of physical energy reqired to ride/ski the same slope
with the same level of aggression. Also it looks like skiing
is much worse as far as a chance of getting a serious injury
goes. Yes, snowboarding gets you bruised quite often and
it's pretty brutal on beginners, but once you're past the danger
of catching an edge at speed there's not much that you can
do to screw things up on a snowboard. The only fall I took
that day on skis I landed my ass on my own ski binding and
I got a kick in the boot while falling strong enough for the
upper part of my calf to still hurt a bit. And I had bindings
set at 6.5 DIN, they didn't release. After telling about that
to my skier friends they would go like "that's nothing, last
year I landed a jump a bit off and the boot chewed my shins
so bad it still hurts". Makes me think twice before acually
trying to ski more.

Anyway, here's a video my friend took, I'd appreciate comments
about what exactly am I doing wrong (I'm sure the short answer
to that would be "a lot") and what can I do to improve faster (~6MB).
http://s87087197.onlinehome.us/ski2.avi

For some reason I was unable to handle my skis at turn exits
at that time and they threw me up a bit. I think I figured out how
to deal with it by the end of the day and also got a bit more
angulation. Of course this is a blue slope that is more like green
(Summit West, lower part) and I can't handle anything substantially
steeper than that with ease, but hey it's my second day skiing and
the first one was a year ago.

The skis are Atomic SX:9 (2003-4 model I believe), boots are
Technica Alu with Intuition liners. I got a question about equipment:
if I absolutely don't care about carving and more interested in
doing steeps, moguls, powder, half-pipe (in that order), would I
be better served by a much much softer pair of skis and boots?
I'm trying to figure out if I should trust my gut feeling that I need
softer equipment because after soft snowboard boots anything
can seem too stiff Oh and by the way - surprise surprise, I liked
the fit of my ski boots and didn't have any problems with hot spots
or them being loose at all. Intuition liner is the ****!

Thanks in advance for any useful comments.

--
Dmitry

"Dmitry" null@null wrote in message
...
Anyway, here's a video my friend took, I'd appreciate comments
about what exactly am I doing wrong (I'm sure the short answer
to that would be "a lot") and what can I do to improve faster (~6MB).
http://s87087197.onlinehome.us/ski2.avi


Actually, the first thing I'm tempted to say is...

Hey, what's wrong with that? Lotta good things happening.
You're aggressive, and you already look better than most
people skiing at Snoqualmie - West. 'Cept for those air
boys hitting all the features. But that will come.

You're well crossed over, nice angulation, nice flexion and
extension if not even a pretty strong up unweight. Not a bad
idea at all to get used to doing that, though you might not need
as much *HUP* as you were getting. Both skis coming off the
snow maybe six inches or more. Too darn much work that.
Especially if you're somewhat back on the skis. It's very nice
to be *able* to do that though. Keep it, learn to mellow it out.
Refine it. It only takes a tad bit in most cases. Maybe a sixty
fourth of an inch of the snow.

I did notice what I would describe as hands flailing around,
getting behind you, etc. Every time your hands go out of
position, your balance disappears. You might try to think
of your upper body as a china doll. The only motion is
at the waist, to counter the direction the skis are going.
Like Robbie the Robot. He can only turn at the waist.
The arms, shoulders, etc. can be posed, but after that
they are locked in place.

The hands of Robbie might well be held just a bit lower
than the shoulders, certainly much higher than shown in
the video. The hands of Robbie are held as if they are
carrying a big beach ball. If you visualize yourself as in
the middle of a (big) clock, the ski tips are at 12, and the
poles are at 10 and 2 respectively. The arms don't really
move from that position, only the wrists swing the poles.
It's just a touch. Not a stab. The hands are *always*
visible in your peripheral vision. The arms don't move
all around or flail. They stay put.

The upper body is the anchor against which the legs turn
back and forth. The most critical part of the upper body
position is the hands. I might add that the whole "upper
body quiet/facing downhill" thing looked pretty good,
the hands are the issue. Just kind of drag the poles at first,
then later, realize that the pole plant signals the extension for
the next turn. Plant, turn, plant, turn. Make sure you don't
leave the pole in the snow and ski past it. If that happens,
your arm and shoulder will follow, and your balance will be
lost. Just touch and pull it back out of the snow, then
advance it forward for the next turn. All this takes care of itself
if you just leave your hands and arms in the beach ball position,
and merely swing your wrists to get the pole motion.

Also, as you passed the camera, one can see a bit of
back seat malady. The hips, and the rest of the body,
are best being in front of the bindings. You want to always
be on the balls of your feet, as if ready to take that jump shot
with the basketball.

That way you're on the front of the skis, and it's possible to
really control them from there. You can steer, jump, unweight,
and so on with great ease. Pull the skis back underneath you
as far as you can, then get used to skiing from there. Balls of the
feet, always on the balls of the feet. Avoid skiing on the heels, even
though it *seems* easier at first. Every time you finish a turn, pull
the skis back underneath you as far as you can. Also, use the
extension to reset yourself to a really forward position after
each turn.

Then, to complement that nice flex and extend you have,
as you sink at the end of the turn, give both legs a twist
from the hip socket, in the direction of the turn, so that the
knees, acting together, point more toward the center of the turn.
Steer at the end of the turn in other words. Then, extend and
crossover and start another.

To put this all together, make actual, really round, really
complete linked half circles. I'm seeing linked eighths or
quarters of a circle, it tough to control speed that way,
the real "meat" of the turn, that final quarter, is missing.

And, fool around with lifing the tail of the inside ski, leaving the
tip on the snow, when you're halfway through a *nice, really
round, complete half circle* type turn. Just drill with this to get
the idea of what forward is. In order to learn what a really nice
round half circle is, Take a run down Thunderbird (the trail, not
the face, go straight off the lift and follow the curve around to
the right), making one turn at a time to a stop. Once you really
get that, *then* link the turns. Ok, try it first on one of the easier
ones, but you need fairly steep terrain to prove it out. You really
*need* to get on steep terrain and take one turn at a time to a
stop at this point if you really want to improve the fastest you
can.

Screw around with this stuff a while, then go out and just open
up without thinking, just have fun and ski. Then, work on it some
more again later.

If you get the leg steering against the upper body down and
making one really round turn at a time, short, medium or wide, to
a stop, and you're able to ski on the balls of your feet and stay
there, as well as maintain more discipline with the hands, you'll
have everything you need to ski probably any black slope in the
country. When it gets really steep, all the rules change, but more in
terms of the way you put things together, not the way that you do
them. You do the same things, but you mix and time them
differently.

How about some vids of you on some steep stuff making one
nice round turn at a time to a stop?

Dmitry wrote:
snip

Only your second day on skis... ever? I'd say you're doing really good,
Dmitry. Hopping a bit to much, but all in all you're doing well.

One thing you might want to try to get more of a feel for the skis and
to help eliminate some of the hopping is to make sure your weight is on
the balls of your feet and then try "rolling" your knees from side to
side. Do it slowly and give the ski time to react. This will put the
skis on edge and make them turn all on their own without the need to
hop up and down. Do it on a somewhat gentle slope where you have time
to let the skis work without having to worry getting going too fast.

Keep it up... you're doing great!

A.

"Armin" wrote in message

One thing you might want to try to get more of a feel for the skis and
to help eliminate some of the hopping is to make sure your weight is on
the balls of your feet and then try "rolling" your knees from side to
side. Do it slowly and give the ski time to react. This will put the
skis on edge and make them turn all on their own without the need to
hop up and down. Do it on a somewhat gentle slope where you have time
to let the skis work without having to worry getting going too fast.

Keep it up... you're doing great!

A.

You know, Armin, I had the same notion, that is, some
suggestion as to how he might smooth out the turns, and round
them out more, via a "just cross over" style, like your suggestion,
or perhaps a lead change, or something like that. Thing was, he's
got such a dynamite flex extend up unweight type thing going, I'd
hate to see him lose it until he's seen all it's dimensions, and it's
become a purely automatic thing he can call up at will. Then he
could start screwing around with other types of turns. He's got
such a nice rhythm, and that up and in motion will work for him
in anything, pow included.

Although, knee angulation surely is a part of it. Maybe you
can't get too much information, as some say you can.

He is doing quite well for two days or so isn't he? He's not afraid,
and he wants the challenge.

Dmitry wrote:

if I absolutely don't care about carving and more interested in
doing steeps, moguls, powder, half-pipe (in that order),

In order to do steeps, moguls, powder, you need to be able to carve your
skis - the tails have to follow the tips or you're screwed.

BTW, if you can ski, why would you want to waste time in a park? That's
for boarders whose equipment limits their all mountain access. Just get
out on the real terrain and find your own natural half pipes, jumps,
drops, stumps, logs, etc.

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
om...
Dmitry wrote:

if I absolutely don't care about carving and more interested in
doing steeps, moguls, powder, half-pipe (in that order),

In order to do steeps, moguls, powder, you need to be able to carve your
skis - the tails have to follow the tips or you're screwed.

BTW, if you can ski, why would you want to waste time in a park? That's
for boarders whose equipment limits their all mountain access. Just get
out on the real terrain and find your own natural half pipes, jumps,
drops, stumps, logs, etc.

LAL, this is something that I don't understand about the way
you get skiing done. Everyone else on earth slips through really
challenging moguls, yes in fact many could carve through less
steep bumps runs, and do.

And in fact, the tails don't have to follow the tips, and for the
most part didn't, until only recent times. The history of skiing
is a history of the tails skidding around the tips, much of it
due to the wideness of the shovel versus the waist and tail.

For instance, the age old shortswing turn. On a narrow slope
that's iced out or such, this was the recommended turn. Slip
the skis directly across the fall line, set the edges, rebound,
pivot the skis and land in a slip, bring them the rest of the
way around, and so on. If you were to edge the skis heavily,
you'd accelerate and go off the run.

Really, you don't *need* to do this "carving" thing at all to
ski anything. About the only thing it really helps is going fast.

foot2foot wrote:
"lal_truckee" wrote in message
om...

Dmitry wrote:

if I absolutely don't care about carving and more interested in
doing steeps, moguls, powder, half-pipe (in that order),

In order to do steeps, moguls, powder, you need to be able to carve your
skis - the tails have to follow the tips or you're screwed.

BTW, if you can ski, why would you want to waste time in a park? That's
for boarders whose equipment limits their all mountain access. Just get
out on the real terrain and find your own natural half pipes, jumps,
drops, stumps, logs, etc.


LAL, this is something that I don't understand about the way
you get skiing done. Everyone else on earth slips through really
challenging moguls, yes in fact many could carve through less
steep bumps runs, and do.

"Everyone else on earth slips"
- gotta hand it to you; that's quite a statement.

And in fact, the tails don't have to follow the tips, and for the
most part didn't, until only recent times. The history of skiing
is a history of the tails skidding around the tips, much of it
due to the wideness of the shovel versus the waist and tail.

Haven't you ever seen movies of accomplished skiers from the last 50
years? From 70 years ago? Where have you been? The evidence is available.

We're talking about what it takes to ski steep - you start skidding and
you're dead if there's anything dangerous below you.

We're talking about what it to ski moguls - any doofus can skid their
way through the moguls but accomplished skiers keep the shovel on the
snow and carve a turn in the trough. Note that this is different from
competitive mogul skiing.

We're talking about what it takes to ski powder - you CAN'T skid in
powder; the medium won't let you (unless you're on a snowboard or those
wannabe snowboard wide skis, so wide they don't ever penetrate the
powder, in which case what's the point?)

We're not talking about what it takes to ski a half pipe - who cares.

lal_truckee wrote:

Haven't you ever seen movies of accomplished skiers from the last 50
years? From 70 years ago? Where have you been? The evidence is available.

We're talking about what it takes to ski steep - you start skidding and
you're dead if there's anything dangerous below you.

Not really. The guys I know that are rock stars tend to side slip when
it gets really ugly, like probable death. Just a fact of life. If it
comes down to death or style, style loses. I hope. Otherwise there'd
be a lot less rock stars. Most first descents are not pretty
carvers. They're ugly side slippers, but they live, and get the first
descent. shrug Credit where credit is due. We'd all be calling momma
at that point. Might depend on your definition of "steep". That's what
I do when I'm in trouble... slip it out. You would, too.

-klaus

"lal_truckee" wrote in message


Haven't you ever seen movies of accomplished skiers from the last 50
years? From 70 years ago? Where have you been? The evidence is available.

Er, yea bud, they skidded the tails around the tips. Check out that
movie where Jean Claude Killy is the thief on skis. Perfect
example.


We're talking about what it takes to ski steep - you start skidding and
you're dead if there's anything dangerous below you.

Yes but we're not talking carving the in the sense that Dmitry
meant, railroad tracks in the snow. This ain't gonna happen
on steeps.

We're talking about what it to ski moguls - any doofus can skid their way
through the moguls

Yea, like the world champs


but accomplished skiers keep the shovel on the snow and carve a turn in the
trough.


Note that this is different from competitive mogul skiing.

Yes, I see what you mean, but you don't *need*
to do this. Dmitry has most all he needs right now.


We're talking about what it takes to ski powder - you CAN'T skid in
powder; the medium won't let you (unless you're on a snowboard or those
wannabe snowboard wide skis, so wide they don't ever penetrate the powder,
in which case what's the point?)

Yes, but this is all relative. If I put you on 140's, you wouldn't be
all that good in the powder.

If you have skis enough to float you, you don't need any of
the up down stuff of any kind. All you need to do is stand with
the legs half bent all the time and steer the legs from the hip socket.

We're not talking about what it takes to ski a half pipe - who cares.

So, define "carve" for me, could you? This will open up another
whole can of worms, but, so what? There's nothing else going
on in here. You said that you *can't* do these things without
carving. What exactly does that mean? I don't think you're
speaking of the same thing that the "euro carvers" call a carve.

klaus wrote:
lal_truckee wrote:


Haven't you ever seen movies of accomplished skiers from the last 50
years? From 70 years ago? Where have you been? The evidence is available.


We're talking about what it takes to ski steep - you start skidding and
you're dead if there's anything dangerous below you.


Not really. The guys I know that are rock stars tend to side slip when
it gets really ugly, like probable death. Just a fact of life. If it
comes down to death or style, style loses. I hope. Otherwise there'd
be a lot less rock stars. Most first descents are not pretty
carvers. They're ugly side slippers, but they live, and get the first
descent. shrug Credit where credit is due. We'd all be calling momma
at that point. Might depend on your definition of "steep". That's what
I do when I'm in trouble... slip it out. You would, too.

Well, I was talking of skids, not slips, as in uncontrolled skidding -
you lose your edge control and it's not going to turn out well. I wasn't
thinking of deliberate slipping and line adjustments, etc. I agree with
you on not limiting your repertoire - I definitely throw in whatever
sideslips, or traverse to cleaner conditions, etc, are called for on the
stuff that scares me. Maybe it's just another definition problem - I'm
defining a slip as controlled, a skid as uncontrolled - on steep,
controlled good, uncontrolled bad.

But my main solution these days is just to stay away from stuff that has
unreasonably negative consequences - I already did an uncontrolled
tumble onto the rocks, and also a tree slam (although I don't remember
the latter having knocked myself cold on an earlier tree during that
tumble.) So I'm wary of harsh consequences if you lose an edge or
something, and just back off these days. I even avoid stuff that is
otherwise straightforward if the slope is currently such as to create a
slide for life from a simple error. No more slides for life for me, I hope.