good boots for the "sixth toe" problem?

Monique Y. Herman wrote:

And besides, I *know* I'm not the only person in
the world whose ball of the foot is extremely wide.

You mean like http://www.dalebootusa.com/gif/test/feet_small.gif?

*Some* manufacturer
must have a last that matches, Cinderella-like.

http://www.dalebootusa.com/
They can fit anything. For a price.

On 10 Sep 2003 17:30:01 GMT, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Herman wrote:

And besides, I *know* I'm not the only person in
the world whose ball of the foot is extremely wide.

You mean like http://www.dalebootusa.com/gif/test/feet_small.gif?

Fortunately, I don't have feet quite *that* unusual.

*Some* manufacturer
must have a last that matches, Cinderella-like.

http://www.dalebootusa.com/
They can fit anything. For a price.

Youch, and what a price it is! ... not as bad as might be expected,
though. It looks like a pretty good deal if you can actually go to the
fitting center, but I can't believe that mailing in a checklist can
actually work ...

Have you bought from them?

--
monique

My pointless ramblings:
http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

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In article ,
Monique Y. Herman wrote:
On 8 Sep 2003 15:40:01 GMT, Bruno Melli penned:
In article ,
"Monique Y. Herman" writes:

Does Surefoot have a warranty on the fit ? If they do, go back.
A good bootfitter would help you chose a boot that fits your foot,
then work on that 6th toe issue (probably by expanding the shell)
Unless you are lucky, boot fitting is more of an art than a science. It
might take several trips back to the bootfitter to get it perfect.

bruno.


I've had the boots refit there multiple times. They're always friendly
and ready to try anything they can think of, but I think we're almost
out of options on these boots. I've had stuff glued to the liner to pad
the area; I've had the shell blown out; I have custom ortho footbeds;
they did something (forget what) last time to try to fix the numbness,
and did suggest that the next thing we should try is to put a pad
underneath the center of the ball of my foot to help um, hrm, I don't
remember but it was supposed to ease up on the numbness. I will try
that final remedy, but I suspect I'd be better off with boots *designed*
for people with my foot shape.


- - There's always DaleBoots. They specialize in building boots for
hard to fit feet and the prices are comparable to high end
boots.

www.dalebootusa.com

_ Booker C. Bense



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"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...
snip

Surefoot will
continue to do mods for free until I'm happy with the results.

It just seems to me that, after so many mods, if I'm still experiencing
not just discomfort but serious pain, it's probable that I should start
from scratch --
snip


If you really do not seem to be closing in on a good fit, you could ask them
if they can swap you into another boot that they stock, that gives a much
better initial fit. A lot of shops will do this if the initial boot can't
be made to fit in a reasonable number of attempts. Puts you back at square
one though, as you probably will still need tweaking.

I've got hard to fit feet, and what I've gone to are boots with custom
liners, which are also more expensive though. Since they shape to the heel
and mid foot areas, you may be able to go to a slightly larger size than
normal, which may place your toe farther back in the toe box where there is
more room. I have not tried the technica's yet, but I have heard good
things about them, and I think they have a wider forefoot and higher arch,
plus the custom liners are re-moldable.
http://www.tecnicausa.com/skiing/
http://www.tecnicausa.com/skiing/rival.shtml
Also look at mens boots as they will probably fit you better in the fore
foot. If you go this route watch out for flex -you can get them to soften
the boot but they have to know what they are doing, and you will probably
need to get the top buckles moved or changed for your calves. Note the high
volume (HVL) Rival RX.

Just a stab in the dark,
F.plant

On 11 Sep 2003 02:25:05 GMT, F. Plant penned:



If you really do not seem to be closing in on a good fit, you could ask them
if they can swap you into another boot that they stock, that gives a much
better initial fit. A lot of shops will do this if the initial boot can't
be made to fit in a reasonable number of attempts. Puts you back at square
one though, as you probably will still need tweaking.

I've got hard to fit feet, and what I've gone to are boots with custom
liners, which are also more expensive though. Since they shape to the heel
and mid foot areas, you may be able to go to a slightly larger size than
normal, which may place your toe farther back in the toe box where there is
more room. I have not tried the technica's yet, but I have heard good
things about them, and I think they have a wider forefoot and higher arch,
plus the custom liners are re-moldable.
http://www.tecnicausa.com/skiing/
http://www.tecnicausa.com/skiing/rival.shtml
Also look at mens boots as they will probably fit you better in the fore
foot. If you go this route watch out for flex -you can get them to soften
the boot but they have to know what they are doing, and you will probably
need to get the top buckles moved or changed for your calves. Note the high
volume (HVL) Rival RX.

Just a stab in the dark,
F.plant


I hadn't thought of swapping -- then again, I bought my current boots
several years ago and have only worn them a handful of times. Still,
they're probably a bit old to get away with swapping them.

Are there certain boot models/brands that come with custom liners, or
are custom liners something you do after choosing a boot?

I've worn men's boots in the past; are they all extremely stiff? Seems
like it would be better to get a more "recreational" men's model than to
get a bad-ass men's model and then have it softened? My calves seem to
be plenty big for women's boots, too, let alone men's ...

Thanks for the links and pointers; I'll check 'em out.

--
monique

My pointless ramblings:
http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote in message
...

I hadn't thought of swapping -- then again, I bought my current boots
several years ago and have only worn them a handful of times. Still,
they're probably a bit old to get away with swapping them.

Are there certain boot models/brands that come with custom liners, or
are custom liners something you do after choosing a boot?

I've worn men's boots in the past; are they all extremely stiff? Seems
like it would be better to get a more "recreational" men's model than to
get a bad-ass men's model and then have it softened? My calves seem to
be plenty big for women's boots, too, let alone men's ...

Thanks for the links and pointers; I'll check 'em out.

Monique,

I think a lot of good shops realize that people do not ski enough to get
their boots sorted out in a timely manner, and so may give a lot of
lattitude depending on circumstances. By the same token they should be
giving you a good enough initial fit that you can tune it up in short order.
If they had nothing suitable they should let you walk away. You may be able
to get a swap into old stock, or maybe a full or partial credit to new
2003-4 product. Credits may be against the MSRP which may negate the
credits value, so check prices. Talk to store owner or top manager if
possible as they have the power to do stuff. You should have your reciept
so they know how much profit they have to play with, and any work orders if
possible to show this was an existing problem from the beginning (not just
that you broke your foot or something like that). If they won't do anything
for you, I'd get my new boots elsewhere since if the shop was unable to
properly fit you the first time and resolve it in a timely manner (they are
the experts so a lot of the onus is on them to zero in on the problem fast),
it may indicate a trend you want nothing of. Let them know that as well.

For custom boots you can get just liners, though some fit various shells
better than others, or you can get shells and liners together. Most
companies have a custom fit boot -usually a race boot with a A+B foam
injected liner which is a one attempt deal, but which can exert a lot of
preasure on your foot during injection. I found this displaced my foot
causing fit problems, but I understand the newer foams are supposed to exert
less force than when I last did it. If you go this route make sure the
footbed is posted -filled in under the arch. The liner tends to fit in some
of their other shells as well.

A lot of companies sell thermofit boots that have liners that can be heated
and reheated to conform to your foot, but from what I understand they are
intended to compress to accommodate preasure points and don't really expand
into the cavities. This would be like the technica ultrafit. You also can
get silicone injected liners, which I have had very good luck with, but they
are now hard to find and need a talented person to do them.

You then have the technica hot form, which from all I've been told, actually
will expand around your foot to fill in cavities, and compress to
accommodate preasure points. It also can be done repeatedly. I'm going to
be seriously looking at this for my next boot.

Boots have gotten a lot softer due to new skis, and the aging population, so
you may be able to find something in a mens thats ok, or maybe get a price
to swap liners in a rec boot. The shell pivot location also has a big
impact on flex, as it needs to reflect your geometry. I mentioned before
that a slightly larger size w a custom liner may help your toe box -downside
is it may feel stiffer since the pivot may not be in the sweetspot.
Sometimes its very simple to soften a boot by just yanking out some of the
hardware (I've had to take a cuff off to remove internal mechanisms), or
slots have to be cut/altered etc.

As for your calves, if the boot is not overly tall, you may be able to
fiddle/ move the buckle, lower the cuff height, and remove spoiler wedges in
the rear of the cuff. Basically trial and error, but probably not your
biggest worry. Also if you can only find stiffer boots, you may find you do
not really need the top buckle, if you have a custom liner, as a custom
liner really retains your foot.

Please note I'm not a boot fitter by trade, so this is kind of a limed POV.
Sorry for the length.

F. Plant

On 11 Sep 2003 04:25:01 GMT, F. Plant penned:

lots of really useful information

Thank you for all your pointers. I "should" have the receipt for my
boots, except that I got them back when I was a college kid and I wasn't
quite as organized, so I'm pretty sure I don't. They seem to have my
information on file, and my boots have a little "surefoot" sticker on
them, so they should have no doubt they sold me the boots ... and I'd
imagine any bootfitter worth their salt would have a pretty good idea
what a given boot is worth.

The tecnica hot form thing sounds pretty sweet ... I may have to check
that out.

--
monique

My pointless ramblings:
http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

"Monique Y. Herman" wrote:

I've had the boots refit there multiple times. They're always friendly
and ready to try anything they can think of, but I think we're almost
out of options on these boots. I've had stuff glued to the liner to pad
the area; I've had the shell blown out; I have custom ortho footbeds;
they did something (forget what) last time to try to fix the numbness,
and did suggest that the next thing we should try is to put a pad
underneath the center of the ball of my foot to help um, hrm, I don't
remember but it was supposed to ease up on the numbness. I will try
that final remedy, but I suspect I'd be better off with boots *designed*
for people with my foot shape.

My dad's girlfriend sold these inserts at fairs and conventions and
insisted I try one while we were visiting. The theory is that it spreads
your foot out, keeping it from being squished in by
too-narrow-across-the-ball-of-the-foot shoes, which, in my case, is the
only kind anybody makes. I have to say that they did improve the squished
feeling, but they caused a new pain. She offered to sell them to me at a
discount, but I declined.

They must work for somebody, though, she claimed to have lots of repeat
customers.

--
Cheers,
Bev
1010101010101010101010101010101010101
What do you think you're doing, Dave?
-- Hal 9000

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:46:24 CST, The Real Bev penned:
"Monique Y. Herman" wrote:

My dad's girlfriend sold these inserts at fairs and conventions and
insisted I try one while we were visiting. The theory is that it spreads
your foot out, keeping it from being squished in by
too-narrow-across-the-ball-of-the-foot shoes, which, in my case, is the
only kind anybody makes. I have to say that they did improve the squished
feeling, but they caused a new pain. She offered to sell them to me at a
discount, but I declined.

They must work for somebody, though, she claimed to have lots of repeat
customers.


Well, I got the name of the things -- metatarsal pads, I think they're
called.

I figure at this point I'll go get the pads (going to do that today, in
fact) and ski a day on them. If it works, great! If not, all I've lost
is a few days in new boots.

I read on an orthotics site "somewhere" that these things work for minor
cases, whereas they often cause pain with more serious metatarsal
issues. Sounds like that gels with what you're saying.

--
monique "wishing and hoping ... that there's a boot out there to fit me"

My pointless ramblings:
http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

Followup:

Today was ... interesting. I emailed the Keystone Surefoot several days
ago, and the manager informed me their hours are 11-5 (found out later
that it's actually tues-sat 11-5), and that I should probably call
ahead, since business is slow during the summer and they tend to take
long lunches. Fair enough.

This morning around 10:30, I called and left a message that I would be
there around 12 or so, and my phone number. Off we drive ...

So, things take a little longer than expected, and we had some trouble
finding the right base village. Finally we get there ... and the place
is locked up. Totally dark. Doesn't look like anyone's been there
today. Ooookay ... we decide to have lunch and come back.

Lunch is across the street, and a waiter there says he can call
Surefoot's manager on his cell. We eat, and meanwhile, I perceive that
the waiter is on his phone, speaking either to or about the manager ...
sounds promising, but eventually he returns and tells me that he was
unable to find the phone number. So either he was on the phone trying
to call friends to find the number(doubtful), or he was covering for his
friend (likely).

Anyway, we finish lunch, and the Surefoot people still aren't at the
store (2:00). As we're kind of putzing around deciding what to do, it
occurs to me that the next-door shop (one of those resort souvenir shirt
places) might have an idea about where they are. I walk in and ask the
guy there if he's seen the Surefoot guys today ... he says no. I ask if
he thinks they'll be coming in today ... he says doubtful, if they
haven't yet. I sigh, and he says, gee, it's too bad the only other
Surefoot's all the way over in Vail.

I perk up.

No, I say, I'm pretty sure there's one in Copper.

The very nice store guy offers to call them to see if they're in. I
gratefully accept. He calls them and tells them I'm on my way ...

Half an hour later, we are at the Copper Surefoot, and there is a nice
guy by the namee of (I believe) Ryan waiting to help. I tell him that
last year, the Vail guys had determined that my next course of action
should be a metatarsal pad. Ryan acknowledges this, but wants to do his
own diagnosis.

He does what all the good bootfitters do -- has me stand in the empty
shell; has me stand on the bare orthotics; asks me questions about
pressure. He asks if I have pain in the ball of my foot -- I say, why,
no, not at all; my "ring finger" toe goes numb, is all, and my pinky
toe, somewhat. He asks me if it hurts while skiing -- I say, why, no,
actually, it hurts most if I'm standing on the slope (say, for a lesson)
or if I'm on a lift that doesn't have foot-supports. He nods sagely.
He says that this is not a problem with metatarsals; this is problem
with a narrow toe-box.

(This meshes with what I read about orthotics on the web.)

The side of my boot has actually been expanded once before, but tonight
it will again have the pleasure of that experience. Hopefully, this
will do the trick.

(I did ask Ryan if perhaps my boots simply didn't fit and I needed a new
pair -- he said no, they're pretty good overall. Just that stupid
toebox ...)

A strange day, all in all.

I do have to say, my fiance was awfully nice about driving all over the
mountains today just to spend 15 minutes messing with my boots. Of
course, he rewarded himself nicely -- new skis at Boulder Ski Deals =)

--
monique

My pointless ramblings:
http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6