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Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 22nd 03, 08:06 PM
Saroff
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Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton

Hello.

I am going out with a group of friends to do some Alps skiing in March
'04. We are in desperate need of some help from people who have been
there.

We are deciding between Chamonix, Val D'Isere, Verbier, and St. Anton,
and because we are all American and because none of us have ever been
to Europe, we are very clueless as to how to pursue...we do know that
all these are very different, but it's hard to get an idea of the
differentiation from books and websites.

We are all expert skiers and have chosen these resorts principally on
terrain and reputation, but in differentiating them we want to look at
character, scenery, food, drink, nightlife, etc.

Any advice from anyone who has been there would be much, much
appreciated!
Ads
  #2  
Old September 22nd 03, 09:36 PM
Edward Fryer
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Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton


"Saroff" wrote in message
om...
Hello.

I am going out with a group of friends to do some Alps skiing in March
'04. We are in desperate need of some help from people who have been
there.

We are deciding between Chamonix, Val D'Isere, Verbier, and St. Anton,
and because we are all American and because none of us have ever been
to Europe, we are very clueless as to how to pursue...we do know that
all these are very different, but it's hard to get an idea of the
differentiation from books and websites.

We are all expert skiers and have chosen these resorts principally on
terrain and reputation, but in differentiating them we want to look at
character, scenery, food, drink, nightlife, etc.

Any advice from anyone who has been there would be much, much
appreciated!


SkiSolutions resort reviews give you some idea

http://www.skisolutions.com/resorts/resorts.cfm


  #3  
Old September 23rd 03, 09:33 AM
Kiki
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Posts: n/a
Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton

Una volta, Saroff ha provato a di

Hello.

I am going out with a group of friends to do some Alps skiing in March
'04. We are in desperate need of some help from people who have been
there.

We are deciding between Chamonix, Val D'Isere, Verbier, and St. Anton,


....CUT...

Hi,

I'm a newby of this ng, but i write a lot on it.sport.sci and i'm very fond
of telemark freeriding.

My experience and what I know by my friends...

Verbier: very trendy in the night, a lot of "alternative" young boyz, a lot
of skibums... Very EXTREME skiing, if you like, with traces in many areas
were it's really increadible...

St.Anton: the preferred skiing station of the man that take mt to Verbier, a
very hard man. He says it's a very wonderful place

Cham: Obviously the the place with the most increadible panorama in the
alps... npothing to say about it! Beautiful, but i don't think it's so
extreme...

Consider that You can stay in Verbier and reach Chaminix in less than 2
hours... if you stay for more than 1 week you can consider to sit in
Verbier, take a car and then move to Chamonix for a couple of days and
Gressoney for 1, 2. Gressoney (close to Aosta) belong to Monterosa ski area,
it's very fast connected with Alagna, personally my preferred one, but i
don't look to extreme conditions (even if you can find a lot!!!!!!!!). Look
a t a map, it's all very close (with the Monte Bianco Tunnel)

Val D'Isere sorry, nothing to say...
--
Kiki

MSN
Y! telemark_p

"Free your heel,
your mind will follow"


  #4  
Old September 23rd 03, 10:17 AM
Steve
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Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton

On 22 Sep 2003 13:06:22 -0700, (Saroff) wrote:

Hello.

I am going out with a group of friends to do some Alps skiing in March
'04. We are in desperate need of some help from people who have been
there....


Wow, if only all tough decisions were this much fun.

The easiest answer is that it doesn't matter really. They are all
fantastic resorts that will offer you challenging skiing and a great
insight into European skiing. I've skied a lot in Cham, Val and St
Anton and I still can't decide between them for ski trips (so I've now
taken to not going to any of them in order to broaden my horizons!).
I've only skied Verbier for a day so I can't really comment, but it
certainly seems to be in the same league as the others.

They are all different though, so I'll try to sum up my own views.
Others may disagree....

Val d'Isere - large area, interlinked, lots of easily accessible
off-piste. You probably want to hire a guide to show you the good
stuff but you can easily find a lot of it if you know what you are
doing. Great nightlife, may be a bit too good... I don't think Val has
much "atmosphere" and it can be very cliquey if you know what I mean -
the ski bums and long term residents don't really care for tourists
(not saying they should) and I get the feeling that they resent those
who may steal their powder. If you do go here try and spend at least a
day skiing in Ste. Foy, it's a great little area.

Chamonix - several smaller areas (if you can call the Grands Montets
small!) which are a bit spread out, if you are looking for convenience
and ski-to-the-door this isn't the place. Lots of challenging skiing,
it probably doesn't get any tougher if you really want to push it.
Lots of very long runs (although I'd avoid the basic Vallee Blanche,
it would be tedious to a good skier). Hire a guide and prepare to be
stunned by scenery, altitude and terrain. The town is larger than most
(any?) ski towns and has a great atmosphere in my opinion. Yes, there
are snobby skiers like Val, but it's a bigger place and I enjoy
visiting and the residents seem a bit more friendly. Very close to
Geneva and lots of other ski areas including Verbier, Courmayeur and
other resorts in Italy and France.

St Anton - great atmosphere, most hotels very close to the lifts, very
convenient. Great apres ski, might be a bit cheaper than the other 3
(but not by much). Ski area is large though not as big as Val or
Verbier. Lots of challenging skiing on marked runs and lots of
excellent off-piste. You could also ski in Lech, and maybe visit some
of the resorts around Innsbruck if you felt like it.

All the resorts will get tracked out very quickly after snow because
they all attract lots of good skiers. All the resorts have
guides/instructors who can show you the goods.

Why not hire a car and do a bit of a tour - if you start in Cham, hit
Verbier then maybe another in Switzerland (the scenery in Wengen is
fantastic so it's worth a stop off), then end up in St Anton... you
should be able to get bewteen the resorts in a couple of hours so you
wouldn't miss out on any skiing.


~ If emailing, please use: Steve_A_Haigh
~ @
~ hotmail.com
~
  #5  
Old November 2nd 03, 05:17 AM
David Mills
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Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton

Hi,

I've been to Chamonix (mostly Argentiere up the velley a bit) 4 times
now for several weeks or more at a time. I absolutely love the place.
I'm an extremely good skier (highly qualified instructor). I've also
skied Verbier (only one day) and St. Anton a few times (maybe 6-7 days
in all).

If night life is your highest priority then I'd pick St. Anton or
Verbier. But is skiing is:

* if you're a very advanced skier, I'd go to Chamonix
* if your advanced, but want some pisted runs, then Verbier

Chamonix doesn't have much piste. It's mostly off piste. Much of the
skiing on the Mt. Blanc side of the vally is glacier skiing. The whole
valley is high avalanche risk after a big dump. Either because of
avalanches or crevasses there is a very real chance of dying in
Chamonix. About 100 people die in the valley each year from rock
climbing, ice climbing and skiing related accidents.

Another poster said don't ski the Vallee Blanche if you're not an
advanced skier. I agree that from a skiing point of view the VB isn't
great. But what an experience. The 2 lifts getting 2 the top are
amzing. The second one rises 1600 (5250ft) vertical meters without a
single pylon - just one long cable flapping in the breeze. In total the
lift gain 2800m. Then when you arive (almost vertically) at the top
(3860m), you have to walk through a 15m rock tunnel, followed by a steel
bridge over a large gap in the rock (amazing views almost straight down
to Chamonix at 1000m) then a rock and ice tunnel before emergin on to
the top of a glacier.

Then you have to navigate a 150m arete which has a 1000m drop on one
side and a 300m drop on the other. Usually there is a rope to hang on
to but not always. The path is solid ice and your wearing ski boots.
The smart people are wearing crampons, and a climbing harness and
carying an ice axe. You leave the climbing harnes on for the skiing so
that if you fall down a creevasse, they have somewhere to attach a
rescue rope (assuming they can reach you).

The run is then 22km. Yes its easy skiing, but the scenery is some of
the best in the world.

So if you go to Chamonix, whatever you do DON"T MISS the VALLEE BLANCHE
(assuming you get a sunny day).

Probably take a guide. They'll have all the gear and will rope you up
at the top - much safer.

Have fun.

David.


Saroff wrote:
Hello.

I am going out with a group of friends to do some Alps skiing in March
'04. We are in desperate need of some help from people who have been
there.

We are deciding between Chamonix, Val D'Isere, Verbier, and St. Anton,
and because we are all American and because none of us have ever been
to Europe, we are very clueless as to how to pursue...we do know that
all these are very different, but it's hard to get an idea of the
differentiation from books and websites.

We are all expert skiers and have chosen these resorts principally on
terrain and reputation, but in differentiating them we want to look at
character, scenery, food, drink, nightlife, etc.

Any advice from anyone who has been there would be much, much
appreciated!



  #6  
Old November 4th 03, 02:16 AM
S. Gione
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Posts: n/a
Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton


"David Mills" wrote in message
...
Hi,

....clip...

* if you're a very advanced skier, I'd go to Chamonix


*** Note the "very" ... if you go off the back, advanced is not enough.

* if your advanced, but want some pisted runs, then Verbier

Chamonix doesn't have much piste. It's mostly off piste. Much of the
skiing on the Mt. Blanc side of the vally is glacier skiing. The whole
valley is high avalanche risk after a big dump. Either because of
avalanches or crevasses there is a very real chance of dying in
Chamonix. About 100 people die in the valley each year from rock
climbing, ice climbing and skiing related accidents.

Another poster said don't ski the Vallee Blanche if you're not an
advanced skier. I agree that from a skiing point of view the VB isn't
great. But what an experience. The 2 lifts getting 2 the top are
amzing. The second one rises 1600 (5250ft) vertical meters without a
single pylon - just one long cable flapping in the breeze. In total the
lift gain 2800m. Then when you arive (almost vertically) at the top
(3860m), you have to walk through a 15m rock tunnel, followed by a steel
bridge over a large gap in the rock (amazing views almost straight down
to Chamonix at 1000m) then a rock and ice tunnel before emergin on to
the top of a glacier.

Then you have to navigate a 150m arete which has a 1000m drop on one
side and a 300m drop on the other. Usually there is a rope to hang on
to but not always. The path is solid ice and your wearing ski boots.
The smart people are wearing crampons, and a climbing harness and
carying an ice axe. You leave the climbing harnes on for the skiing so
that if you fall down a creevasse, they have somewhere to attach a
rescue rope (assuming they can reach you).

The run is then 22km. Yes its easy skiing, but the scenery is some of
the best in the world.

So if you go to Chamonix, whatever you do DON"T MISS the VALLEE BLANCHE
(assuming you get a sunny day).


*** I agree with this ... the skiing is not tough, but the experience is not
to be missed. Two highlights for me: 1) the climb down the Arete and 2)
Skiing thru the seracs.


Probably take a guide. They'll have all the gear and will rope you up
at the top - much safer.


*** The guide is worth it. The price, as I remember it, was really
inexpensive and included the lift. You will feel much better going down the
Arete because they rope you together and carry your poles ... you just
side-step down with your skis hanging onto the rope (which was there) with
your other hand.

Also, they handle rescue. One of our party flopped in the powder at the top
about 3 times and, because he had a heart condition, started to have
palpitations after digging himself out. The guide called-in a helicopter to
take him out ... no-charge.

The only bummer about Valee Blanche is the hike out at the end ... about 10
minutes uphill.

If you're a "Vail type" and used to being pampered, Chamonix is probably not
for you. I've been to about 6 European areas and, logistically, Chamonix is
the most difficult. The ski areas are scattered up/down the valley and you
have to take shuttles (crowded) from place to place. If you're "very"
advanced, this might be the place for you.


  #7  
Old November 4th 03, 09:38 AM
Steve Haigh
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Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton

S. Gione wrote:

*** Note the "very" ... if you go off the back, advanced is not enough.

There's a lot of hype, and a lot of runs do live up to the hype, but
there is so much skiing in Chamonix there is a lot to suit "advanced" as
well as "very advanced". skiers.

The run is then 22km. Yes its easy skiing, but the scenery is some of
the best in the world.

So if you go to Chamonix, whatever you do DON"T MISS the VALLEE BLANCHE
(assuming you get a sunny day).



*** I agree with this ... the skiing is not tough, but the experience is not
to be missed. Two highlights for me: 1) the climb down the Arete and 2)
Skiing thru the seracs.

Sorry, but I have to say that it is overrated. By all means head up
there, but get the guide to take you to Envers du Plan or the Vrai
Vallee Blanche. There is good skiing there, if you are paying for a
guide don't be fobbed off with the trade route, it is tedious.

*** The guide is worth it. The price, as I remember it, was really
inexpensive and included the lift. You will feel much better going down the
Arete because they rope you together and carry your poles ... you just
side-step down with your skis hanging onto the rope (which was there) with
your other hand.

Yep, a guide probably is worth it, especially if they show you the real
stuff:-) The telepherique is included on the multiday pass (at least it
was a few years ago).

Also, they handle rescue. One of our party flopped in the powder at the top
about 3 times and, because he had a heart condition, started to have
palpitations after digging himself out. The guide called-in a helicopter to
take him out ... no-charge.

Rescue in the high mountains is not handled by guides it is handled by
the Gendarmarie, and you don't need to be with a guide to be rescued. I
have never heard of anyone being charged for a helicopter rescue in the
high mountains, but assuming you have insurance the authorities will
probably reclaim their costs from the insurance company. If you are dumb
enough to head up there without insurance you *may* be hit with a bill
afterward. You will not be left on the mountain, that would be illegal
in France, quite apart from the moral issue.


The only bummer about Valee Blanche is the hike out at the end ... about 10
minutes uphill.

The usual descent now ends at the small telecabine which takes you up
from the Mer de Glace to Montenvers, where you can either ski down if
snow cover is good or take the train. There is no need to hike anymore
unless it is not possible to reach the telecabine, but if the cover is
that thin then I doubt the route would be skiable at all. If you skied
the route in the off-season or for some reason the telecabin was closed
then you would have a hike out.


If you're a "Vail type" and used to being pampered, Chamonix is probably not
for you. I've been to about 6 European areas and, logistically, Chamonix is
the most difficult. The ski areas are scattered up/down the valley and you
have to take shuttles (crowded) from place to place. If you're "very"
advanced, this might be the place for you.

Yep, there are better places for non-experts, but don't be frightened
off, it is a good place for intermediates just not the best.

  #8  
Old November 27th 03, 02:19 PM
funkraum
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Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton

"S. Gione" wrote:

[...]
If you're a "Vail type" and used to being pampered, Chamonix is probably not
for you.


Agreed

The Pas de Chevre descent from Argentiere which exits opposite
Montenvers ideally requires a driver to pick you up in at the station
in Chamonix. This way, someone has the Champagne in the cooler for a
decent length of time, and can also organise a group of heavies to
meet you off the train and bludgeon lots of irritating tourists out of
the way, etc.

Failing that: Use two cars and park one in Chamonix and the other in
Argentiere. (There are a number of descents in the Alps I would like
to use this recovery method for but they keep building ski lifts on
them and connecting them up before I get around to doing them)

Failing that: A pair of plimsols in the day sack will save a lot of
wear on your ski boots and your lower legs.


I've been to about 6 European areas and, logistically, Chamonix is
the most difficult. The ski areas are scattered up/down the valley and you
have to take shuttles (crowded) from place to place. If you're "very"
advanced, this might be the place for you.


Agreed.


I think competition for top place in the league of logistical
hell-holes is between Zermatt, Chamonix and Les Arcs.

The ranking in the second-division below this super-league depends on
whether one is driving or walking to the foot of the Seilbahn.

  #9  
Old December 19th 03, 10:30 AM
Tommy Petersson
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Default Chamonix v. Val D'Isere v. Verbier v. St. Anton

All four places are good and are places I frequent. Since I'm only advanced
and not "very advanced" I cannot utilize Chamonix to its full potential,
and it's bad logistics and powder-snow hunting wolfpacks make it not the
best for me. However, it's a real town, so there are things to do at night.

Val d'Isère is a nice place, but it's more intermediate skiing there than
in the other places. Less ugly and more interesting than many other french
ski resorts.

Verbier is a favourite mostly because of the very easily found offpiste.
The 4 valleys look nice on paper, but a lot of it are bad, slow lifts.
Apart from around Verbier the better piste skiing is at the other far end,
which means a lot of transport runs. But the easily reachable offpiste is a
big plus. Nightlife is just plain bad.

S:t Anton is a nice place, and by going by bus for half an hour you can
include some very good runs in Lech/Zürs. The skiing is also good, and last
year I also got some very good powder days and discovered that the offpiste
isn't bad either (I've always had more scarce with powder snow in S:t Anton
earlier). Afterski beats all the other places easily, nightlife isn't as
good as one would expect, though.
 




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