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#1
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required clothing
Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring. The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct? |
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#2
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Ibk" wrote in message ... Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in spring. The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct? If you have shells, you can always layer up or down with clothes underneath the shell. I have several shells, mostly all I use is shells. It's nice to change the look now and then you know. But you *need* waterproof/breathable *membranes* in the pants and windshell, like gore tex, helly tech, etc. Columbia, North Face, etc, all make clothes that use the gore tex type membrane. It will pass water as a vapor, but not as a liquid. Good stuff. Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If your shells don't have the membrane, you might just get wet and miserable. You should be able to pay retail sixty to eighty bucks for pants, only nylon and membrane, no insulation, about the same for the jacket. Since these are usually spring items, you could maybe even save money this time of year. " |
#3
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"Sven Golly" wrote in message ... "foot2foot" wrote in news:11p7iaaoc4dlo30 @corp.supernews.com: But you *need* waterproof/breathable *membranes* Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. Not true. The term membrane is also wrong in this context since coatings and laminates (the word I think you meant) are both membranes. No I didn't mean laminate. I meant membrane. A coating is a coating. You spray it on. Membrane. White thing. Kinda layer sorta. You can actually see it in there. Call it a laminate if you want. It's a membrane similarly to a "semi permeable membrane". Osmosis. Same kinda thing. It passes some things and not others. Or, in one direction, not another. Same kinda thing. Membrane. There are lots of ways to skin a cat or make clothing waterproof/breathable. Some of the really high tech coatings do just as well as Gore-Tex (a laminate). Not to my experience. "Coatings" are B.S. Membranes are the stuff. There are also a lot of bad coatings that mostly turn a good piece of nylon into a sauna. You also have to add construction, ventilation, liners and all sorts of other things into the picture. Nah, you just need a shell. You can layer up or down underneath it. You need the waterproof breathable membrane tho. You get warm, unzip it a bit. You get cold, zip up, or add layers. The membrane passes water as a vapor, but not as a liquid. Regardless. It doesn't make any difference to this poster and his/her question. We're not talking Mt. Everest death zone here. We're talking Aspen or something. Sven, you always want to make things that are simple so complicated. How's that for a "you" message? |
#4
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bk wrote: Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in spring. The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct? Probably, although after a winter of skiing in Vermont, Colorado in March always seems pretty balmy to me. Conditions will be colder than what you're used to, so just add more layers. |
#5
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foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. |
#6
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"Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:TqXkf.3660$Yh2.1288@trndny01... foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. I'm not wrong. From "REI expert advice". Water-Repellent Coatings To maximize water-resistance and breathability, Gore-Tex outerwear comes with a DWR (durable water repellent) treatment on its outer surface. This DWR causes water to bead up and roll off the garment, which keeps the fabric surface clear so that sweat and body heat can pass through from the inside. DWR treatments also keep the fabric surface drier, which cuts down on evaporative heat loss and keeps your outerwear light and comfortable. Over time, with regular laundering and exposure to the elements, DWR treatments can wear off. When this occurs, water may no longer bead on the surface of the outerwear fabric, and the fabric may absorb some water (NOTE: the Gore-Tex barrier beneath the outer fabric will still stop this moisture from getting to your skin). The best way to renew your DWR is to launder your Gore-Tex outerwear according to the care instructions and iron it using a warm steam setting. This will restore the water beading on the outer surface of the fabric as long as the original water-repellent treatment is present. Unfortunately, there is no permanent water-repellent treatment available. Eventually, after extended wear and/or many washings, the original repellent finish will be depleted and you'll need to use a spray-on or wash-in water-repellency treatment to treat the outer surface of the fabric. You may repeat this process as many times as needed. If all you have on an item of clothing is a sprayed on coating and no membrane and they *claim* it's waterproof breathable, basically what you have is nothing at all, and they're lying. |
#7
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foot2foot wrote: "Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:TqXkf.3660$Yh2.1288@trndny01... foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. I'm not wrong. From "REI expert advice". The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating. So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong. I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice the difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice" speaks of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating worn off, but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss. |
#8
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"Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:SVXkf.4679$6Z5.2616@trndny02... foot2foot wrote: "Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:TqXkf.3660$Yh2.1288@trndny01... foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. I'm not wrong. From "REI expert advice". The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating. So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong. I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice the difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice" speaks of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating worn off, but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss. Glad to see you're awake. The actual point of the discussion was, can a coating alone do the same job that a waterproof breathable membrane can do, coating added or not. The answer is no. You've missed the context and point of the whole discussion. If you want to stay dry, you need a gore tex style membrane, not just a coating the makers claim is water proof /breathable. It's not. |
#9
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foot2foot wrote: "Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:SVXkf.4679$6Z5.2616@trndny02... foot2foot wrote: "Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:TqXkf.3660$Yh2.1288@trndny01... foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. I'm not wrong. From "REI expert advice". The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating. So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong. I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice the difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice" speaks of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating worn off, but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss. Glad to see you're awake. Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a discussion with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you or not. The actual point of the discussion was, can a coating alone do the same job that a waterproof breathable membrane can do, coating added or not. The answer is no. You've missed the context and point of the whole discussion. I guess I missed it because you never said that, nor did OP or anyone else state that as "the actual point of the discussion". I thought the actual point was to answer the OP's question about what to wear while skiing in Vermont, and how it compares to skiing in Colorado in the spring, and since I've done both (typically every year), I chimed in. What _you_ stated, and what I responded to, was, "Waterproof breathable 'coatings' are useless." In fact, they are not. I have quite a few garments made of Goretex and other breathable fabrics, and I observe quite a difference in effectiveness between a garment with its DWR intact and one where the DWR is shot. This is obviously most noticeable in an environment where the garment is constantly getting wet, such as whitewater kayaking, but not all skiing is done in desert-dry conditions, and DWR has value in a skiing garment too. |
#10
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bk wrote:
Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in spring. The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct? Yes, that's what you want to take to VT. Bring two layers of fleece and two layers of hot chilis in case it gets cold. Maybe a down vest. That's the idea of a shell - you add more and more layers underneath it as the temps drop. Get a neck gaiter if you don't have one already. It's amazing how much difference this little garmet can make. //Walt |
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