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#1
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
I was reading Swix's wax recommendation for the Birkie. The writing
says the Swix Steel Brush will open up structure and the pores of the base. They suggest a softer copper brush (Toko) will not have the same result. However I remember reading on Zachs' website the ski base after stone grinding is like a scab. A steel brush should never be used on a base. More often than not my skis are slower than other racers. I'm pretty sure the bases aren't sealed but perhaps they are clogged as Swix says. Anyone have any luck with the Swix Steel Brush or have any thoughts about it's use. Thanks. |
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#2
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
ADK Skier wrote:
I was reading Swix's wax recommendation for the Birkie. The writing says the Swix Steel Brush will open up structure and the pores of the base. They suggest a softer copper brush (Toko) will not have the same result. There are several different Swix steel brushes... I'm not sure which one you read about. However I remember reading on Zachs' website the ski base after stone grinding is like a scab. A steel brush should never be used on a base. You probably read wrong. This is what he wrote in 2006: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.s...=en&lnk=gst&q= More often than not my skis are slower than other racers. There are lots of reasons for slow skis. The brush you use is probably very low on the list. I'm saying it's the case with your skis, but unfortunately many skis just suck, even if you do everything right in terms of matching flex to your weight, structure, waxing, etc. |
#3
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
I don't know if there's really an unbiased study to answer the steel
vs. copper vs. bronze brush question, but a few years ago Zach modified his view about steel and became a fan (and seller) of Swix's oval wild boar brush (T0198B). Finn Sisu shop really likes what I think is the rectangular version of it and has sold a bunch. The thing Zach strongly suggested was taking the edge off the wild boar before using it on good skis, first with a grinder, then by working it in on junk skis for about an hour. The idea is to get it to a point where it doesn't undo the grind. I was in his shop last season and can attest to his using it directly after scraping, followed by Swix's stiff oval black nylon brush (T099B). His comment was those two are all one typically needs. Unfortunately, that info is not on his current website, tho perhaps a google search might turn up the old one. For the Swix brushes, see http://www.swixsport.com/eway/defaul...6 118:3:::0:0 Gene ADK Skier wrote: I was reading Swix's wax recommendation for the Birkie. The writing says the Swix Steel Brush will open up structure and the pores of the base. They suggest a softer copper brush (Toko) will not have the same result. However I remember reading on Zachs' website the ski base after stone grinding is like a scab. A steel brush should never be used on a base. More often than not my skis are slower than other racers. I'm pretty sure the bases aren't sealed but perhaps they are clogged as Swix says. Anyone have any luck with the Swix Steel Brush or have any thoughts about it's use. Thanks. |
#4
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
Andrew Lee (correction):
I'm NOT saying it's the case with your skis, but unfortunately many skis just suck, even if you do everything right in terms of matching flex to your weight, structure, waxing, etc. |
#5
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:27:50 -0800 (PST), Andrew Lee
wrote: There are lots of reasons for slow skis. The brush you use is probably very low on the list. I'm saying it's the case with your skis, but unfortunately many skis just suck, even if you do everything right in terms of matching flex to your weight, structure, waxing, etc. Yeah, but I think part of the probably is that the harsher metal brushes can actually fuzz up the bases and make them very slow in cold or new snow conditions. |
#6
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
On Feb 19, 5:19*pm, ADK Skier wrote:
I was reading Swix's wax recommendation for the Birkie. The writing says the Swix Steel Brush will open up structure and the pores of the base. They suggest a softer copper brush (Toko) will not have the same result. However I remember reading on Zachs' website the ski base after stone grinding is like a scab. A steel brush should never be used on a base. More often than not my skis are slower than other racers. I'm pretty sure the bases aren't sealed but perhaps they are clogged as Swix says. Anyone have any luck with the Swix Steel Brush or have any thoughts about it's use. Thanks. Doug, T0188B oval fine steel. Break it in with a protocol similar to what Gene suggests or get creative on your own. I brushed the concrete floor in my basement for about 30 minutes, and quite aggressively at that. Dull it to the point where, as Zach says, it won't leave scratch marks when you run it up your arm. Use it before wax and for brushing out any wax, except for powder, of course. You're welcome to test mine any time. It's the ONLY brush I've used for the last 3 seasons aside from a dedicated powder horsehair. And yeah, I vacuumed the brush thoroughly before I took it to skis after filling it with concrete dust... |
#7
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
On Feb 19, 10:39*pm, "m.wynn" wrote:
I brushed the concrete floor in my basement for about 30 minutes Okay, now I'm really confused....this is how I usually structure my skis..... |
#8
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
On Feb 20, 9:31*am, highpeaksnordic wrote:
On Feb 19, 10:39*pm, "m.wynn" wrote: I brushed the concrete floor in my basement for about 30 minutes Okay, now I'm really confused....this is how I usually structure my skis..... Bob, Thanks for the info. I actually think it was Nat Brown and not Zach who said never touch a stone ground base with a steel brush. You had mentioned early this season ski flex was most important followed by grind and wax. However I think when you bomb on the wax it can a lot greater than the percentage you gave. When the skis really drag I feel it can be as much as a 5% disadvantage. These are the days I call voodoo wax days when it's mind boggling how bad my skis run. I feel there is another characteristic of fast running skis and after a lot of years I would swear it's has something to do with static buildup. A fellow skier friend of mine never irons in his race day wax without using Toko Moly first. He says he never has crappy skis. All I can do is give it a try. See you at the Empire State Games this weekend. |
#9
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
On Feb 20, 10:45*am, ADK Skier wrote:
However I think when you bomb on the wax the skis really drag There certain are those kinds of days, where wax makes all the difference. I have a pair of perfectly flexed and ground skis w/ F-31 Violet on them. Kobak had his old skis w/ F-31 Pink and he ran away from me on the downhills - in this case it was all wax. At several races this year, there was little apparent difference between waxes and top coats for the same two pairs of skis. fellow skier never irons in his race day wax without using Toko Moly Moly-based antistatic waxes are the best kept secret out there. Why more people don't use them is beyond me. I've used the Star Map Black and Map 200 for years - great waxes, the Map Black is a pain to use correctly but worth it. The Toko line are great products Why do you think Swix jumped on the moly based wax wagon a few years ago? C U tomorrow. |
#10
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Swix Steel Brush Or Not?
On Feb 20, 5:52*pm, highpeaksnordic wrote:
On Feb 20, 10:45*am, ADK Skier wrote: However I think when you bomb on the wax the skis really drag There certain are those kinds of days, where wax makes all the difference. *I have a pair of perfectly flexed and ground skis w/ F-31 Violet on them. *Kobak had his old skis w/ F-31 Pink and he ran away from me on the downhills - in this case it was all wax. *At several races this year, there was little apparent difference between waxes and top coats for the same two pairs of skis. fellow skier never irons in his race day wax without using Toko Moly Moly-based antistatic waxes are the best kept secret out there. *Why more people don't use them is beyond me. *I've used the Star Map Black and Map 200 for years - great waxes, the Map Black is a pain to use correctly but worth it. *The Toko line are great products *Why do you think Swix jumped on the moly based wax wagon a few years ago? C U tomorrow. This thread has talked about a couple different issues- brushes, moly waxes, and wax effect on ski speed. As far as brushes go, I have not seen any difference between the soft Toko copper brush and the soft Swix steel brush. For years I used the Toko with great success- soft copper and black horsehair was about all I ever used. Zach used to comment on the great condition of the skis I would send to him. I have been using the Swix recently and it seems to work about the same as the Toko. I have not sent any skis to Zach recently, but I believe the bases are in the same condition as if I had used the Toko and the wax seems to come off the same. I do agree that the wrong wax can have a greater effect on ski speed than sometimes stated. I think this is only the case when the wax is way off, and does not usually happen if the proper procedures are followed. The problem seems to happen most often when skis are waxed too warm. It is much easier to make a ski that is waxed too cold work in warmer conditions than it is to make a ski waxed too warm work in much colder conditions. The same is true with structure- much easier to add before a race than take away. I have learned to always suggest colder wax and less structure when trying to predict the wax of the day. Also go with more fluoro except in extreme cold. I do agree with Bob, and I hate doing that(lol), but moly products are great. Again almost always helps and almost never hurts. I have an interesting story about static electricity and skis. There was a high school race on the alpine trails at Bristol Mountain a bunch of years ago- I think Leah was a junior, so I guess it was like 8 years ago.The course was all man made snow. It was at night and some of the trails were well lit and some of them were a little on the dark side. Leah came flying by a bunch of spectators, and as she went by us we saw sparks flying off the bottom of her skis!! I was sure it was because she was skiing so fast, but then realized that some of the skiers behind her had the same thing going on. As some of the slower skiers went by, the same thing did not happen. I think the conditions were just right for seeing this- only saw some of it one other time, but not to the same degree. Her skis did have a moly undercoat that day, but it was covered by a HF wax without moly. I believe that most people are using moly final coats on man made snow now. Joe |
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