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#1
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mounting pilot bindings
Hello,
If you look at your skate skis with bindings mounted on them, can you discern a difference in the fore-aft position of the bindings between the two skis. What would you consider the maximum difference in fore-aft position between the two skis that is acceptable to you? 5mm? 25mm, 1cm? Now, for the same question side to side. Can you tell if your bindings are not perfectly centered side-to-side on the ski? Does one side of your pilot binding line up flush with the edge of the ski, but the other side of the binding overhangs the edge of ski? thanks, tom |
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#2
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so, what skis did you get (model? flex?) nnn wrote: Hello, If you look at your skate skis with bindings mounted on them, can you discern a difference in the fore-aft position of the bindings between the two skis. What would you consider the maximum difference in fore-aft position between the two skis that is acceptable to you? 5mm? 25mm, 1cm? Now, for the same question side to side. Can you tell if your bindings are not perfectly centered side-to-side on the ski? Does one side of your pilot binding line up flush with the edge of the ski, but the other side of the binding overhangs the edge of ski? thanks, tom |
#3
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nnn wrote:
Hello, If you look at your skate skis with bindings mounted on them, can you discern a difference in the fore-aft position of the bindings between the two skis. What would you consider the maximum difference in fore-aft position between the two skis that is acceptable to you? 5mm? 25mm, 1cm? Hopefully, you bought them this way, and aren't asking because you mounted them yourself:-) Unless you can discern the difference when you ski, not a big deal. A good shoprat will balance the skis and place the bindings accordingly. As such, if one ski has slightly more/less material on one end it may affect the balance point. Now, for the same question side to side. Can you tell if your bindings are not perfectly centered side-to-side on the ski? Does one side of your pilot binding line up flush with the edge of the ski, but the other side of the binding overhangs the edge of ski? If they were mounted using a jig, they should be pretty square. Unless they are badly out of line, it won't hurt if they are slightly out. They should be pretty close though. Your body will adjust *automatically* to minor misalignments, but if one ski continually shoots right or left, regardless of which foot it is on, there's a problem and should be taken to a good ski mechanic. thanks, tom Marsh |
#4
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Yes, it does sound like you mounted the bindings yourself.
bindings are mounted relatively to the ski's center of balance, which happen to coincide on two skis if the skis are from the same pair. I've never seen more than ~5 mm difference. On pair of my racing skis has about that much of the difference in binding position. And, yes, I mounted them myself, and I'll never do that again (not that I notice the difference while skiing, but it's just that mounting bindings is not worth my time) Speaking of left-right... I've seen, like, 2 mm deviations from the center. Again, no noticeable effect. |
#5
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Pilot bindings are usually mounted about 1cm back of balance. I've seen
up to 1cm difference in balance points between a pair of race skis (I sold them), and my distributor-picked Peltonens are 1/4" different in length. Gene wrote: Yes, it does sound like you mounted the bindings yourself. bindings are mounted relatively to the ski's center of balance, which happen to coincide on two skis if the skis are from the same pair. I've never seen more than ~5 mm difference. On pair of my racing skis has about that much of the difference in binding position. And, yes, I mounted them myself, and I'll never do that again (not that I notice the difference while skiing, but it's just that mounting bindings is not worth my time) Speaking of left-right... I've seen, like, 2 mm deviations from the center. Again, no noticeable effect. |
#7
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1 cm back has to do with the nature of the Pilot bindings, but I don't
know the exact reason. Maybe someone else knows. The skis are 1/4" different; the bindings are mounted relative to the balance point of the ski they are on. Gene nnn wrote: Hello Pilot bindings are usually mounted about 1cm back of balance. Why should pilot bindings be mounted 1 cm behind the balance point? my distributor-picked Peltonens are 1/4" different in length. The skis are 1/4" different in length or the bindings are offset 1/4"? thanks, tom "Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message ... Pilot bindings are usually mounted about 1cm back of balance. I've seen up to 1cm difference in balance points between a pair of race skis (I sold them), and my distributor-picked Peltonens are 1/4" different in length. Gene wrote: Yes, it does sound like you mounted the bindings yourself. bindings are mounted relatively to the ski's center of balance, which happen to coincide on two skis if the skis are from the same pair. I've never seen more than ~5 mm difference. On pair of my racing skis has about that much of the difference in binding position. And, yes, I mounted them myself, and I'll never do that again (not that I notice the difference while skiing, but it's just that mounting bindings is not worth my time) Speaking of left-right... I've seen, like, 2 mm deviations from the center. Again, no noticeable effect. |
#8
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Hello,
1 cm back has to do with the nature of the Pilot bindings, but I don't know the exact reason. Well, I've read that pilot bindings should be: a) mounted 1cm *forward* of the balance point to move the ski's balance point between the two bars on the boot. b) not mounted forward of the balance point, but at the balance point because the weight of the binding moves the balance point of the combined ski+binding backwards to a spot between the two bars. c) and now you say pilot bindings should be mounted 1cm behind the balance point for an unknown reason. I'm surprised there is no consensus. thanks, tom "Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message ... 1 cm back has to do with the nature of the Pilot bindings, but I don't know the exact reason. Maybe someone else knows. The skis are 1/4" different; the bindings are mounted relative to the balance point of the ski they are on. Gene nnn wrote: Hello Pilot bindings are usually mounted about 1cm back of balance. Why should pilot bindings be mounted 1 cm behind the balance point? my distributor-picked Peltonens are 1/4" different in length. The skis are 1/4" different in length or the bindings are offset 1/4"? thanks, tom "Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message ... Pilot bindings are usually mounted about 1cm back of balance. I've seen up to 1cm difference in balance points between a pair of race skis (I sold them), and my distributor-picked Peltonens are 1/4" different in length. Gene wrote: Yes, it does sound like you mounted the bindings yourself. bindings are mounted relatively to the ski's center of balance, which happen to coincide on two skis if the skis are from the same pair. I've never seen more than ~5 mm difference. On pair of my racing skis has about that much of the difference in binding position. And, yes, I mounted them myself, and I'll never do that again (not that I notice the difference while skiing, but it's just that mounting bindings is not worth my time) Speaking of left-right... I've seen, like, 2 mm deviations from the center. Again, no noticeable effect. |
#9
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Didn't the bindings come a manual saying how to install them?
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#10
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"nnn" wrote:
Well, I've read that pilot bindings should be: a) mounted 1cm *forward* of the balance point to move the ski's balance point between the two bars on the boot. b) not mounted forward of the balance point, but at the balance point because the weight of the binding moves the balance point of the combined ski+binding backwards to a spot between the two bars. c) and now you say pilot bindings should be mounted 1cm behind the balance point for an unknown reason. I'm surprised there is no consensus. thanks, tom I'll take a stab at this. The Pilot binding is tail heavy. A ski with Pilot bindings mounted at the balance point will have the combined balance point shifted about 1.5 cm behind the original balance point - a bit tail heavy, but the secondary bar provides another (sprung) vertical lift point, so the ski will be lifted level to the ground more or less. A ski with Profil bindings will retain the original balance point, and will be lifted from that balance point. Both types of bindings will ski the same in that you will be pressuring the ski from the same position (retaining the ski's pressure distribution). Both types will both be more or less level to the ground in the return phase too. Mounting bindings away from the balance point requires more consideration because it changes the pressure distribution of the ski. Skis are designed so that they work best with bindings mounted at the balance point, but this ideal may not happen all the time. There are manufacturing variations and flexes that are all over the place, it's easy to see that maybe the balance point is not the ideal location for every ski. The NIS system with moveable binding locations seems like a way to finally address this (for NNN). Zach Caldwell had a little write up on this system on his website a couple of weeks back, and I think he found that most of the Madshus that he had on the system skied best at the balance point, but some skied best with the bindings farther back, including on that skied best at 1.5 cm back. I imagine that without adjustable bindings, that ski would have been called a dud (you know, like the skis you and I buy at retail for $400-500 that are just plain slow!). I moved the Pilot bindings on a pair of Madshus back 1.8 cm (to the combined ski/binding balance point) and turned a pair of bad skis into decent skis because it improved the pressure distribution on the snow. This ski was mounted at the balance point originally, with the combined balance point 1.5 cm behind the front pin. It now balances like a Profil binding ski, with the main bar taking the load of the ski. The return spring doesn't have to do as much work as it was intended to, so I bottomed out the spring a couple of times to loosen it up and it balances/skis fine. So going back to your choices, I would say go with the balance point because most skis are designed for that, at least theoretically, unless the manufacturer recommends otherwise. Mounting 1 cm in front of the balance point would make the ski tail heavy (yes, balance is still between the bars), but maybe not enough to matter. Going just from my minimal experience, I would rather mount a binding farther back than forward (seems to make the ski faster). Note that mounting the bindings 1 cm back would also result in a combined balance point still between the two bars (maybe 0.7 cm behind the main bar) because of the tail heaviness of the binding. Maybe this is considered better balanced than mounting at the balance point (where the combined balance is 1.5 cm behind the main bar) - it makes the main bar take up more weight, a bit more like the Profil binding in terms of balance. Atomic's recommendations seem to take this line of reasoning, though they vary the location by ski length (mount 1 cm behind for 190 cm skis, 0.5 cm behind for 184 cm skis, and at balance point for 178 cm). I think Fischer recommends the balance point. |
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