Question on coming down a hill

. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to?

In UK we have plenty of artificial ski slopes.
A lesson on one of these would give you the confidence to
snowplow and to stop.

I remember a James Bond film where the badman chased him
downhill wearing skinny skis and firing a biathlon rifle. Having
missed Bond he raced into a car park and did a hockey stop
in front of his leaders limo.
I could never master that, but having one ski out of the track
doing a half snowplow I learnt to bring the other ski next to it
and to digin the inside edge of the skis so I stopped, facing the
side of the trail.

If you watch videos of races you often see the racer cross the
line at speed then plant one pole and somehow manage to
slide both skis on the flat in a half circle and so avoid a racer
lying prostrate on the snow. Thats another trick to practice.

Just dont be afraid of slopes.
When the herringbone going up gets too hard, turn to the side
of the trail and step up right left right left and so on.
You can apply that going down the steep slope too.
Just practice the moves until you are comfortable with them.

Bruce Freeburger wrote:

June,
When you snowplow do 2 things:

1. Knees and thighs touch (this angles both skis to carve)
2. Thumbs forward and low, and butt high.

What?? Definitely not! If this is what you are doing, a lesson from a
professional is in order.

GG

Thanks Bruce. Saved this post, and will keep this in mind. Are there
lots of good trails at Boyne Mountain?

June

"Bruce Freeburger"
wrote in message ...
June,
When you snowplow do 2 things:

1. Knees and thighs touch (this angles both skis to carve)
2. Thumbs forward and low, and butt high.

To make a sharp turn when snowplowing on ice, keep lifting one
ski a
little in a tapping motion. If you are in the above body position,
tapping/lifting the left ski will turn you left. Tapping/lifting
(when
thumbs down/butt high/knees touching) will turn you right.

Your body position is everything when turning cross country
skis.
You have no metal edges on the skis and sneakers for ski boots.

Since you are in Michigan, the best X-C instruction is at Boyne
Mountain. Take a 2 hour "beginer" private lesson for $47. By going
private your 2 hours won't be wasted on watching your instructor
attend
incredibly uncoordinated newbies.
Then go back and take a 1 hour private lesson from Lou for $55,
and
tell Lou you want to learn you to make turns on ice. In one hour you
will, and it will be the best $55 you can spend on cross country
skiing.
Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
usenet(at)BIKESonTV.com


JCZ wrote:

Finally I'm bored with the easy trails. Saturday I tried the
medium
trails, and I did just fine -- lots of nice rolling up and down
hills.
I had no problems whatsoever, but then I saw a rather steep hill
leading up to the difficult trail. I was tempted to try it, but
had I
come DOWN that hill, it would've been scary because it ended at
what
looked like a kind of big intersection of trails with benches and
maps
and lots of people. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this
point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've
tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance,
and
I've tried turning my boots outward to kind of dig into the tracks
to
slow down, but none of them really work that well, and I imagine
they
don't work at all well when going kind of fast. Can anyone give me
a
suggestion? Thanks.

June

Thanks Derrick. I'll try stepping out.

June

wrote in message
oups.com...
Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've
tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance

Try stepping out of the track then snowplowing -- either get out at
the
top of the hill, or partway down. Practice getting in and out of
tracks on a less steep hill -- step out, snowplow until you're back
at
a comfortable speed, then step back in. You can also do a half
snowplow where one foot stays in the tracks and the other is angled.

Putting your poles in front of you can be dangerous -- in a fall you
can end up with a pole in your ribs or gut.

An advanced option is to learn to do a hockey stop (i.e. stopping
like
a hockey player on skates, with first the upper body then both skis
turning perpindicular to direction of travel; much easier said than
done...).

Derick

Thanks. I guess I gave the impression that the hills really scare me.
But, they don't. I used to downhill -- a long time ago, and I enjoyed
it. The hills would be just fine if I just KNEW that I could stop. I
think I'm going to have to find a deserted area -- and I know just the
place -- a county park where I go with friends occasionally that never
has anyone there because you have to break your own trails (and it's
really close to a trail that is groomed). I think I'll just drive over
there and practice going down the hills and stopping. I guess that
would be the best way to gain confidence in stopping.

June

"taywood" wrote in message
...

. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to?

In UK we have plenty of artificial ski slopes.
A lesson on one of these would give you the confidence to
snowplow and to stop.

I remember a James Bond film where the badman chased him
downhill wearing skinny skis and firing a biathlon rifle. Having
missed Bond he raced into a car park and did a hockey stop
in front of his leaders limo.
I could never master that, but having one ski out of the track
doing a half snowplow I learnt to bring the other ski next to it
and to digin the inside edge of the skis so I stopped, facing the
side of the trail.

If you watch videos of races you often see the racer cross the
line at speed then plant one pole and somehow manage to
slide both skis on the flat in a half circle and so avoid a racer
lying prostrate on the snow. Thats another trick to practice.

Just dont be afraid of slopes.
When the herringbone going up gets too hard, turn to the side
of the trail and step up right left right left and so on.
You can apply that going down the steep slope too.
Just practice the moves until you are comfortable with them.

Thanks!

June

wrote in message
...
JCZ writes:

JCZ Thanks Chris. I understand that fear, but really I'm not
that scared
JCZ to go downhill, but wouldn't it be kind of crazy of me to go
down a
JCZ hill like this and not know how to stop? So I guess the real
question

For the first 5-10 years I skied, on narrow barely groomed
hiking trails in northern Michigan, on 3-pin bindings with
soft rubber soles, my generally method for stopping when trees
got close was a soft sitdown. Had plenty of snow to break
the falls.

Modern bindings/boots and wide groomed trails have made a big
difference.

JCZ I'm asking is how do you stop, because I might have to.

Stop out of the track and plow turn...




--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in rec.skiing.nordic...)

June,
I replied what I did because as a certified Professional Ski
Instructor who has taught hundreds of skiers, both at resorts and in
club/park instructional programs, what Bruce wrote about snowplow
technique is erroneous and, actually, dangerous (to wit: put your knees
and thighs together with a high butt position and notice how physically
constricted the position is; can you even lift a foot? Imagine that
position going downhill on ice for a novice skier!). The main piece of
value in what he said is the suggestion to take a lesson at Boyne Mtn,
where I understand they have good PSIA teachers.

Gene Goldenfeld


JCZ wrote:

Thanks Bruce. Saved this post, and will keep this in mind. Are there
lots of good trails at Boyne Mountain?

June

"Bruce Freeburger"
wrote in message ...
June,
When you snowplow do 2 things:

1. Knees and thighs touch (this angles both skis to carve)
2. Thumbs forward and low, and butt high.

To make a sharp turn when snowplowing on ice, keep lifting one
ski a
little in a tapping motion. If you are in the above body position,
tapping/lifting the left ski will turn you left. Tapping/lifting
(when
thumbs down/butt high/knees touching) will turn you right.

Your body position is everything when turning cross country
skis.
You have no metal edges on the skis and sneakers for ski boots.

Since you are in Michigan, the best X-C instruction is at Boyne
Mountain. Take a 2 hour "beginer" private lesson for $47. By going
private your 2 hours won't be wasted on watching your instructor
attend
incredibly uncoordinated newbies.
Then go back and take a 1 hour private lesson from Lou for $55,
and
tell Lou you want to learn you to make turns on ice. In one hour you
will, and it will be the best $55 you can spend on cross country
skiing.
Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
usenet(at)BIKESonTV.com


JCZ wrote:

Finally I'm bored with the easy trails. Saturday I tried the
medium
trails, and I did just fine -- lots of nice rolling up and down
hills.
I had no problems whatsoever, but then I saw a rather steep hill
leading up to the difficult trail. I was tempted to try it, but
had I
come DOWN that hill, it would've been scary because it ended at
what
looked like a kind of big intersection of trails with benches and
maps
and lots of people. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this
point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've
tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance,
and
I've tried turning my boots outward to kind of dig into the tracks
to
slow down, but none of them really work that well, and I imagine
they
don't work at all well when going kind of fast. Can anyone give me
a
suggestion? Thanks.

June

Thanks Gene. I appreciate it. For online technique tips things like
"lift one foot out of track and put it on a kind of angle" works
really well for me, while specific positions do not. I would need an
instructor to help me with those position sorts of things anyways to
make sure my idea of "high butt" is the same as an instructors idea of
"high butt" if, in fact, a high butt were being called for in whatever
I were trying to accomplish. Perhaps what Bruce is saying works for
him and he is just trying to help me, and I appreciate that. I'm
saving these posts and trying all the stuff that seems like it would
work for me. If and when I ever get an opportunity to get away to
Boyne Mountain and ski I will take a lesson or two there as you and
Bruce suggested. Thank you.

June

"Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message
...
June,
I replied what I did because as a certified Professional Ski
Instructor who has taught hundreds of skiers, both at resorts and in
club/park instructional programs, what Bruce wrote about snowplow
technique is erroneous and, actually, dangerous (to wit: put your
knees
and thighs together with a high butt position and notice how
physically
constricted the position is; can you even lift a foot? Imagine that
position going downhill on ice for a novice skier!). The main piece
of
value in what he said is the suggestion to take a lesson at Boyne
Mtn,
where I understand they have good PSIA teachers.

Gene Goldenfeld


JCZ wrote:

Thanks Bruce. Saved this post, and will keep this in mind. Are
there
lots of good trails at Boyne Mountain?

June

"Bruce Freeburger"
wrote in message ...
June,
When you snowplow do 2 things:

1. Knees and thighs touch (this angles both skis to carve)
2. Thumbs forward and low, and butt high.

To make a sharp turn when snowplowing on ice, keep lifting
one
ski a
little in a tapping motion. If you are in the above body
position,
tapping/lifting the left ski will turn you left. Tapping/lifting
(when
thumbs down/butt high/knees touching) will turn you right.

Your body position is everything when turning cross country
skis.
You have no metal edges on the skis and sneakers for ski boots.

Since you are in Michigan, the best X-C instruction is at
Boyne
Mountain. Take a 2 hour "beginer" private lesson for $47. By
going
private your 2 hours won't be wasted on watching your instructor
attend
incredibly uncoordinated newbies.
Then go back and take a 1 hour private lesson from Lou for
$55,
and
tell Lou you want to learn you to make turns on ice. In one hour
you
will, and it will be the best $55 you can spend on cross country
skiing.
Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
usenet(at)BIKESonTV.com


JCZ wrote:

Finally I'm bored with the easy trails. Saturday I tried the
medium
trails, and I did just fine -- lots of nice rolling up and
down
hills.
I had no problems whatsoever, but then I saw a rather steep
hill
leading up to the difficult trail. I was tempted to try it,
but
had I
come DOWN that hill, it would've been scary because it ended
at
what
looked like a kind of big intersection of trails with benches
and
maps
and lots of people. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this
point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks,
I've
tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some
resistance,
and
I've tried turning my boots outward to kind of dig into the
tracks
to
slow down, but none of them really work that well, and I
imagine
they
don't work at all well when going kind of fast. Can anyone
give me
a
suggestion? Thanks.

June

Exactly. It looks quite ugly, too. Actually, it's a stereotypical look
of a novice going downhill on the first ever day of skiing. Someone you
definitely have to slowdown for.

The only thing I can add to the thread is that it really depends upon what
the snow conditions are like. If the snow is hard and crusty, there is not
much you can do but sit down and slide it out. If the snow is soft and
deep, my first step is to put my poles behind me and dig the baskets into
the snow, causing a bit of drag. This is good if you are only trying to
slow down a little bit. Next is the "one ski out of the track into half a
snowplough", if still going too fast, you need to step fully out of the
tracks and do a full snowplough, finally if going to fast at the bottom of
the hill, you may have to do the "hockey" stop.

-Scott.


"JCZ" wrote in message
...
Thanks. I guess I gave the impression that the hills really scare me.
But, they don't. I used to downhill -- a long time ago, and I enjoyed
it. The hills would be just fine if I just KNEW that I could stop. I
think I'm going to have to find a deserted area -- and I know just the
place -- a county park where I go with friends occasionally that never
has anyone there because you have to break your own trails (and it's
really close to a trail that is groomed). I think I'll just drive over
there and practice going down the hills and stopping. I guess that
would be the best way to gain confidence in stopping.

June

"taywood" wrote in message
...

. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to?

In UK we have plenty of artificial ski slopes.
A lesson on one of these would give you the confidence to
snowplow and to stop.

I remember a James Bond film where the badman chased him
downhill wearing skinny skis and firing a biathlon rifle. Having
missed Bond he raced into a car park and did a hockey stop
in front of his leaders limo.
I could never master that, but having one ski out of the track
doing a half snowplow I learnt to bring the other ski next to it
and to digin the inside edge of the skis so I stopped, facing the
side of the trail.

If you watch videos of races you often see the racer cross the
line at speed then plant one pole and somehow manage to
slide both skis on the flat in a half circle and so avoid a racer
lying prostrate on the snow. Thats another trick to practice.

Just dont be afraid of slopes.
When the herringbone going up gets too hard, turn to the side
of the trail and step up right left right left and so on.
You can apply that going down the steep slope too.
Just practice the moves until you are comfortable with them.