Steira forced to stop.

"Terje Henriksen" wrote in message
...

"ellis" skrev i melding
...


Well, that makes sense from Norwegian team's point of view. If the
coach
had told Steira outright during a leg of the race, Don't win the race,
that
is outrageous, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Steira came
in
just 1.80sec behind Scott, so it does look like Steira gave it her best
at
the finish line.

When Steira was told to slow down, it was the same as to tell her not to
win, because she would be second in every finish against Scott.

--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes




Well, which one is it? You said they told to her win if she could, but not
help Scott by pulling ahead of her and drafting her. It's hard to judge
what really happened without having the newspaper copy. And unfortunately I
don't speak Norwegian even if I had it. Whatever the case, I really like
Steira and feel bad for her that she is always coming in at 4th and missing
the podium (except for that one WC win in Pregelato Italy before the
Olympics, and 2nd in this race). She's young and got some real talent. If
she had a real chance to win this race, and logically not damage Bjorgen's
chance of overall World Cup (math tells that was not the case), then I
really can't believe the Norwegian national team coaches stopped her from
winning. I'd really like to know what the newspaper article actually said,
and what the context of "slow down the pace" was. Was it "slow down so you
don't overtake Scott and help her by drafting her" or "slow down and forget
about winning the race to help Bjorgen." The latter doesn't make any sense.

"Terje Henriksen" wrote in message
...

"ellis" skrev i melding
...


Well, that makes sense from Norwegian team's point of view. If the
coach
had told Steira outright during a leg of the race, Don't win the race,
that
is outrageous, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Steira came
in
just 1.80sec behind Scott, so it does look like Steira gave it her best
at
the finish line.

When Steira was told to slow down, it was the same as to tell her not to
win, because she would be second in every finish against Scott.

--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes




This is what I found on:
http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d...hp/3707/NORDIC

From this article it sounds like Steira gave all she got. I just can't
believe a coach would tell her to back off on the last lap.


" Scott overtook Bjoergen midway through the first half of the 15-kilometer
race then held off a determined Steira Stoermer over the last three
kilometers. Steira Stoermer passed Scott on the last lap, but Scott made up
ground on the final downhill and came into the stadium neck and neck with
the Norwegian.

''I knew if I stayed close to Kristin that I would have a good chance,''
Scott said. ''We went into the stadium very close and fortunately I had
enough left for a final sprint.'' "

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:
They seem to have taken it down, assuming it was up. A search for
articles about Steira starts with Holmenkollen.

http://www.finnmarken.no


--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes

ellis wrote:
"Terje Henriksen" wrote in message
...

"ellis" skrev i melding
...


Well, that makes sense from Norwegian team's point of view. If the
coach had told Steira outright during a leg of the race, Don't win
the race, that
is outrageous, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Steira
came in just 1.80sec behind Scott, so it does look like Steira gave
it her best at the finish line.

When Steira was told to slow down, it was the same as to tell her
not to win, because she would be second in every finish against
Scott.


This is what I found on:
http://www.skiracing.com/news/news_d...hp/3707/NORDIC

From this article it sounds like Steira gave all she got. I just
can't believe a coach would tell her to back off on the last lap.

Not on the last; it was earier when Steira was the front runner just after
they changed skis.


--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes

ellis wrote:


Well, which one is it? You said they told to her win if she could,
but not help Scott by pulling ahead of her and drafting her.

No, I wrote that they told her to slow down; don't know the exactly words.

It's
hard to judge what really happened without having the newspaper copy.
And unfortunately I don't speak Norwegian even if I had it. Whatever
the case, I really like Steira and feel bad for her that she is
always coming in at 4th and missing the podium (except for that one
WC win in Pregelato Italy before the Olympics, and 2nd in this race).
She's young and got some real talent. If she had a real chance to
win this race, and logically not damage Bjorgen's chance of overall
World Cup (math tells that was not the case), then I really can't
believe the Norwegian national team coaches stopped her from winning.

We don't know if the could have won the race. If she could, she had not
damaged Bjørgens chances to win, on the contrary. And it does not count if
she had damaged her chances. I do not believe that Bjørgen like to win by
knowing that her team mate cheated for her by not doing her best. In other
sports, eg. boxing, boxers are punished if they take a dive. It shouild be
like that in skiing too.

I'd really like to know what the newspaper article actually said, and
what the context of "slow down the pace" was. Was it "slow down so
you don't overtake Scott and help her by drafting her" or "slow down
and forget about winning the race to help Bjorgen." The latter
doesn't make any sense.

The latter is the outcome of what she was told, even if she at the end was
told to try to win. But then it was to late because an eventually tired
Scott would have had time to recover.

--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes

Peter H. wrote:
Scott wrote:

"I don't understand the strategy at all. For Scott to have
won the WC she would have had to win the race
and Bjorgen would have had to finish worse than 8th.
If Steira had won, she would have taken 20 points away
from Scott meaning all Bjorgen had to do was finish
in the top 20 skiers to retain the WC. The
only other way Steira could have had any effect
on the final results would have been to finish behind Bjorgen,
but she did not do that. "

I didn't see any of the race, but noticed that Becky had a very
small gap after the classic half. Was Steira actually told
to stay back and not even draft? I was assuming that the
strategy was just to 'suck wheel', so to speak, and refuse to
lead, which would either slow things down for Bjorgen and
others to catch up, or else hopefully allow Steira to save
energy and win the sprint. Either way it seems to make sense,
but not if Steira was too far back for the whole second leg to
get any draft advantage.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that sort of team tactic,
and certainly was hoping to see Becky win and Bjorgen back
in 8th or lower. I think she was after the classic leg, but fought
back and got that 4th place, so good for her. She almost made
my "Scott 1st, Bjorgen 3rd prediction" come out right!

Steira went ahead in the lead just after the classic and Scott and Steira
pulled away from Bjørgen, Steira looking very eager, and then she was
stopped by her trainer.

That kind of team tactic will destroy the sport, I think, not letting the
best even try to win. "May the best person win". Allowed tactic is to be in
front and work together to keep others behind. It is in my opinion bad
sportmanship not even try to win or try to stop others from winning.

--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes

In some sports there is a rule that if you don't TRY to finish at your best
possible, you're disqualified for bad sportsmanship. Some time ago there
were big riots around that in Formula 1, I seem to remember.

"Terje Henriksen" wrote in message
...
ellis wrote:


Well, which one is it? You said they told to her win if she could,
but not help Scott by pulling ahead of her and drafting her.

No, I wrote that they told her to slow down; don't know the exactly words.

It's
hard to judge what really happened without having the newspaper copy.
And unfortunately I don't speak Norwegian even if I had it. Whatever
the case, I really like Steira and feel bad for her that she is
always coming in at 4th and missing the podium (except for that one
WC win in Pregelato Italy before the Olympics, and 2nd in this race).
She's young and got some real talent. If she had a real chance to
win this race, and logically not damage Bjorgen's chance of overall
World Cup (math tells that was not the case), then I really can't
believe the Norwegian national team coaches stopped her from winning.

We don't know if the could have won the race. If she could, she had not
damaged Bjørgens chances to win, on the contrary. And it does not count if
she had damaged her chances. I do not believe that Bjørgen like to win by
knowing that her team mate cheated for her by not doing her best. In other
sports, eg. boxing, boxers are punished if they take a dive. It shouild be
like that in skiing too.

I'd really like to know what the newspaper article actually said, and
what the context of "slow down the pace" was. Was it "slow down so
you don't overtake Scott and help her by drafting her" or "slow down
and forget about winning the race to help Bjorgen." The latter
doesn't make any sense.

The latter is the outcome of what she was told, even if she at the end was
told to try to win. But then it was to late because an eventually tired
Scott would have had time to recover.

--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes



Well, we don't know that. Maybe the coach told her to slow down and draft
behind Scott so Steira won't burn herself out going out in front and leading
the lead group when she had another 7.5k to go. Was she way out of in front
of Scott and pulling away, or was she maybe five seconds in front of Scott?
I haven't seen the race yet, so I cannot say, but there is no evidence to
suggest that coach told Steira slow down for the purpose of forgoing a win.
Bjorgen's overall WC doesn't even figure into this.

BTW, what happened to Samdal? He's not the head coach anymore?

I think Scott was 16 points back. Without seeing the video I don't
know. I've been imagining that a call to hold back is so to not
blow up the race at a point where Bjoergen might suffer too much
relative to others.

Gene

"Scott Elliot" wrote:

I don't understand the strategy at all. For Scott to have won the WC
she would have had to win the race and Bjorgen would have had to
finish worse than 8th.
=20
If Steira had won, she would have taken 20 points away from Scott
meaning all Bjorgen had to do was finish in the top 20 skiers to
retain the WC. The only other way Steira could have had any effect
on the final results would have been to finish behind Bjorgen, but
she did not do that.
=20
This is the points schedule:
=20
4.1.1 Women and men for individual distances:
=20
1st place =3D 100 points 16th place =3D 15 points
=20
2nd place =3D 80 points 17th place =3D 14 points
=20
3rd place =3D 60 points 18th place =3D 13 points
=20
4th place =3D 50 points 19th place =3D 12 points
=20
5th place =3D 45 points 20th place =3D 11 points
=20
6th place =3D 40 points 21st place =3D 10 points
=20
7th place =3D 36 points 22nd place =3D 9 points
=20
8th place =3D 32 points 23rd place =3D 8 points
=20
9th place =3D 29 points 24th place =3D 7 points
=20
10th place =3D 26 points 25th place =3D 6 points
=20
11th place =3D 24 points 26th place =3D 5 points
=20
12th place =3D 22 points 27th place =3D 4 points
=20
13th place =3D 20 points 28th place =3D 3 points
=20
14th place =3D 18 points 29th place =3D 2 points
=20
15th place =3D 16 points 30th place =3D 1 point
=20
Scott finished 20 points behind Bjorgen with Scott's win and
Bjorgen's 4th place finish.
=20
Scott Elliot
=20
=20
=20
"Terje Henriksen" wrote in message=20
...
In the newspaper today: The norwegian womens new trainer forced
Steira to reduce the speed in order to help Bj=F8rgen win the world
cup. In my opinion, it would have been better if she had continued
on full speed, giving herself a chance to win and a possibility
that Scott would hit the wall.

I didn't think that trainers could order the skiers not to win;
that is bad sportsmanship and unjust. Do not listen to the trainers
in such cases, and chose another trainer.

--=20
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes
=20
=20
=20

I saw the race on Eurosport.

My memory of it is this: Steira led for a long way, including out of
the transition, when a very tired Bj=F8rgen was dropped by the leading
pair. Steira did not seem to be holding back and increased her lead on
both Bj=F8rgen, and on the pack who were some distance back at the
change. Scott was drafting Steira and looked very fresh.

About half-way through the second leg, Steira did what looked to be the
sensible thing and invited Scott to pull for a bit. I don't know what
her coach said, but the commentators and I had been urging her to do
that for some time. I don't suppose she heard us though ;-) With
about a kilometer to go, Steira then overtook and went for home, which
again looked to be good tactics as Scott is known to be the better
sprinter. It was a close race to the line and Scott just pulled ahead.


If Steira had stayed in the lead, I think it likely that Scott would
have stuck to her until the last sprint and then overtaken. Scott was
showing no signs of problem in keeping up with Steira. =20

Alex