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#41
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Ken,
I'm definitely not saying that rollerski time trials are useless. Just that they are a great way to buff up your confidence because if you beat your last time then it is due to fitness gains, and if for some reason your time is slower, then it's due to hard pavement, wind, wheel issues... In the TeamToday post on their web site (www.teamtoday.org), Pete made a very explicit warning about overanalyzing times from rollerski time trials... And on the issue or repeatability: How could one control the temperature of 3km of asphalt? Rollerski wheels vary wildly in performance depending on many factors such as wear, manufacturing batch and seemingly the phase of the moon. They have a rollerski treadmill at the Olympic Training Center in Lake Placid where I believe they have several sets of calibrated rollerskis, but again, the return on investment just is not there to make it worth investing USST's limited resources to get consistent rollerski time trial results. It would be cheaper to send the team to New Zealand where they can ski on snow than to pay someone to keep a fleet of rollerskis calibrated. -Nathan www.nsavage.com "Ken Roberts" wrote in message ... Nathan Schultz wrote All rollerski results should be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, all measurements of all kinds of skiing-related performance should be taken with a grain of salt. But that doesn't mean that rollerski time-trials are useless -- and it seems that Pete Vordenberg and US Ski Team find some value in them. I keep getting more enthusiastic about Pete and his approach. One big thing I like is that his drive to _win_ pushes him to keep _learning_. Seems like he's less interested in proving that he was right six months, and more interested in moving on to help his athletes to find something that works even better. I would think that's exactly what a national team coach is supposed to be focusing on. rollerski results . . . Wind, wheels and the temperature and condition of the asphalt have such a huge effect on time that it is very hard to compare times. One might hope that somebody over the years has developed some clues for how to adjust for those factors. One might hope that for key training time-trials, they would be done on the same course each time, and each athlete would use the same wheels in similar wear-condition as previous. Wouldn't wind and temperature and asphalt-condition impact all the athletes in the same direction? So you would then expect that everybody's times would be slower, not 2 slower and 2 faster. A different explanation for these results: Compressed Interval Blocks are still not well-understand, and we're still _learning_ what protocol works best for different kinds of athletes, even at the elite level. And that Pete was right to get that learning process started for his athletes. And right to publish his early results so the rest of us could see that it's not so simple -- not yet "scientific" or predictable. I thought Nathan and most other people in this discussion were already saying that. Compressed Interval Blocks are still experimental -- but worth experimenting with. Ken _________________________________________ "Nathan Schultz" wrote in message ... Rollerskiing is stupid. All rollerski results should be taken with a grain of salt. Wind, wheels and the temperature and condition of the asphalt have such a huge effect on time that it is very hard to compare times. However, it's a great opportunity to read something great into it if you beat your previous times, but write it off as an anomaly if your times are slower than last year.... -Nathan Set a new PR on our uphill classic rollerski time trial course last week. Going to be a great season. www.nsavage.com "Ken Roberts" wrote in message ... someone wrote: I have some scientific data from the US Ski Team. Here's some skiing performance measurement results from the US national team: http://www.teamtoday.org/news.php?id=130 From a quick reading of the plans and stories on the website, it looks these measurement results are coming after doing two or three Compressed Interval Blocks during the previous six months. Out of the 4 racers who did the same rollerski time trial before, 2 of them were _slower_ than last year. What are we to make of this? Ken P.S. When I add up Kris Freeman's four times, I get 27:32, not 27:24. |
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#42
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"Nathan Schultz" wrote in message ...
Ken, I'm definitely not saying that rollerski time trials are useless. Just that they are a great way to buff up your confidence because if you beat your last time then it is due to fitness gains, and if for some reason your time is slower, then it's due to hard pavement, wind, wheel issues... In the TeamToday post on their web site (www.teamtoday.org), Pete made a very explicit warning about overanalyzing times from rollerski time trials... I agree that rollerskis are very different, even the same brand. Most of our group skis on Marwe 610s, and the speed difference is pretty incredible. (The drag from the rubber seals over the bearings seems to make a big difference, with old seals being faster.) Also, when the temp drops, the skis get slow. If you leave them in your trunk, you'll have a power workout about 0 C. One that that I've found interesting this fall, is on my 50 km skis, I'm within a few minutes week to week. When I'm tired, I'm 3-4 min slow, and when I feel good, I'm about 2 min faster than average. Another thing I've noticed is that rollerski speed doesn't completely translate to snow speed. I ski faster on snow (compared to the guys I ski with) than I do on rollerskis. Some other guys are hell on wheels. The relative difference isn't huge, but it's there (and it doesn't seem to be related to rollerski speed.) I don't know, maybe rollerskiing has more emphasis on upperbody. Put that on your iron and smoke it... Jay (just jokin' around) Wenner |
#43
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--- "Sly D. Skeez" wrote: make a big difference, with old seals being faster.) Also, when the temp drops, the skis get slow. If you leave them in your trunk, you'll have a power workout about 0 C. Twenty years ago our club used to have weekly rollerski races all summer. We all used Roleto Touring so that we'd be close in speed. But we discovered that the warmer the air temp the faster the race times. So then we'd drive to the race with the car heater on and the skis under the heater air draft. The original hot box! "Tonight, tonight, the time's just right, for racing in the street..." Bruce Springstein, top New Jersey xc skier. Rob Bradlee ===== Rob Bradlee Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training |
#44
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Ken Roberts wrote:
A different explanation for these results: Compressed Interval Blocks are still not well-understand, and we're still _learning_ what protocol works best for different kinds of athletes, even at the elite level. And that Pete was right to get that learning process started for his athletes. And right to publish his early results so the rest of us could see that it's not so simple -- not yet "scientific" or predictable. I thought Nathan and most other people in this discussion were already saying that. Compressed Interval Blocks are still experimental -- but worth experimenting with. Compressed Interval Blocks can also be used to get in better shape, eg. after an injury. I have used it for several years (4?) when I start skiing for the first time. I do not train hard during the summer and autumn, and Compressed Interval Blocks is therefore necessary to get in better shape. I normally use at least 8 days to this exercise: Day 1: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 2: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 3: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 4: Distance 12 km Day 5: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 6: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 7: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 8: Distance 12 km After that, 2 intervals and 1 or more distances each week, also with longer intervals and distances. I have never been a faster skier than now (I think), at an age of 54. -- Terje Henriksen Kirkenes |
#45
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Terje Henriksen wrote:
Ken Roberts wrote: A different explanation for these results: Compressed Interval Blocks are still not well-understand, and we're still _learning_ what protocol works best for different kinds of athletes, even at the elite level. And that Pete was right to get that learning process started for his athletes. And right to publish his early results so the rest of us could see that it's not so simple -- not yet "scientific" or predictable. I thought Nathan and most other people in this discussion were already saying that. Compressed Interval Blocks are still experimental -- but worth experimenting with. Compressed Interval Blocks can also be used to get in better shape, eg. after an injury. I have used it for several years (4?) when I start skiing for the first time. I do not train hard during the summer and autumn, and Compressed Interval Blocks is therefore necessary to get in better shape. I normally use at least 8 days to this exercise: Day 1: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 2: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 3: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 4: Distance 12 km Day 5: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 6: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 7: 4-6 1-1,5 km intervals Day 8: Distance 12 km After that, 2 intervals and 1 or more distances each week, also with longer intervals and distances. I have never been a faster skier than now (I think), at an age of 54. NB! The distance training shall be at max speed. -- Terje Henriksen Kirkenes |
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