wax help - Noque

Classic 50k race.

Conditions. Warm week melted a lot of snow then rain. Since then it has
refrozen solid ice with about 2 inches of new fresh cold snow on top - low
humidity. Several lake crossings with ice that may strip kick wax right
off. Race temp? probably 8deg F (-13C) warming to 12F (-11C)

Glide wax? not a problem - LF 4 or start green or rex green.
Kick wax???????????? Go too warm trying to get kick on icy sections and
you ice up from the new snow. wax for the new snow and you'll be slipping
where they've ground up ice in with it.

??

JKal.

On Jan 27, 4:54*pm, "Jeff and Stephanie Kalember"
wrote:
Classic 50k race.

Conditions. *Warm week melted a lot of snow then rain. *Since then it has
refrozen solid ice with about 2 inches of new fresh cold snow on top - low
humidity. *Several lake crossings with ice that may strip kick wax right
off. *Race temp? *probably 8deg F (-13C) warming to 12F (-11C)

Glide wax? not a problem - LF 4 or start green or rex green.
Kick wax???????????? *Go too warm trying to get kick on icy sections and
you ice up from the new snow. *wax for the new snow and you'll be slipping
where they've ground up ice in with it.

??

JKal.

Hairies?

totally not brave enough to try hairies.

wrote in message
...
On Jan 27, 4:54 pm, "Jeff and Stephanie Kalember"
wrote:
Classic 50k race.

Conditions. Warm week melted a lot of snow then rain. Since then it has
refrozen solid ice with about 2 inches of new fresh cold snow on top - low
humidity. Several lake crossings with ice that may strip kick wax right
off. Race temp? probably 8deg F (-13C) warming to 12F (-11C)

Glide wax? not a problem - LF 4 or start green or rex green.
Kick wax???????????? Go too warm trying to get kick on icy sections and
you ice up from the new snow. wax for the new snow and you'll be slipping
where they've ground up ice in with it.

??

JKal.

Hairies?

I don't think hairies would be a good idea for 2 reasons. One, the
icy stretches you'll have no kick at all. Two, I suspect unless
you're at the front, the tracks will get packed and glazed fairly
quickly. These are tough conditions. Generally, hairies work best
only if you have falling snow, or just fallen snow. At these cold
temps, though, even in that scenario they probably wouldn't work
well. These are conditions where a klister binder with hard wax over
the top works well. This is much easier to apply than applying the
infamous hard wax over klister (peanut butter over jelly). Iron in
the klister binder, let it cool, then easily apply the hard wax over
the top. SkiGo HF purple would probably be ideal, but Swix VR30-35
would work well too. Or just wax for the hills and double pole
everything else that's icy!!

On Jan 27, 6:53*pm, MT Nordic wrote:
I don't think hairies would be a good idea for 2 reasons. *One, the
icy stretches you'll have no kick at all. *Two, I suspect unless
you're at the front, the tracks will get packed and glazed fairly
quickly. *These are tough conditions. *Generally, hairies work best
only if you have falling snow, or just fallen snow. *At these cold
temps, though, even in that scenario they probably wouldn't work
well. *These are conditions where a klister binder with hard wax over
the top works well. *This is much easier to apply than applying the
infamous hard wax over klister (peanut butter over jelly). *Iron in
the klister binder, let it cool, then easily apply the hard wax over
the top. *SkiGo HF purple would probably be ideal, but Swix VR30-35
would work well too. *Or just wax for the hills and double pole
everything else that's icy!!

Ski selection is part of the equation. Hard wax over a klister binder
would also call for a ski with a klister camber to protect the grip
wax. I used SkiGo Universal over a green klister binder with pretty
cold temperatures on old fine grained snow during last year's Canadian
Berkie. My skis has a fairly low half weight camber height (0.35mm)
with a soft finish. The hard wax and binder were stripped from the
back half of the grip zone by 35-40 km.
Edgar

MT Nordic wrote:
I don't think hairies would be a good idea for 2 reasons. One, the
icy stretches you'll have no kick at all. Two, I suspect unless
you're at the front, the tracks will get packed and glazed fairly
quickly. These are tough conditions. Generally, hairies work best
only if you have falling snow, or just fallen snow. At these cold
temps, though, even in that scenario they probably wouldn't work
well. These are conditions where a klister binder with hard wax over
the top works well. This is much easier to apply than applying the
infamous hard wax over klister (peanut butter over jelly). Iron in
the klister binder, let it cool, then easily apply the hard wax over

That sounds like a very good suggestion.

the top. SkiGo HF purple would probably be ideal, but Swix VR30-35
would work well too. Or just wax for the hills and double pole
everything else that's icy!!

This was my initial idea, using a pair of stiff klister skis so that the
waxpocket will stay mostly off the ice when DP'en pastthe icy but flat
areas.

You would probably DP those even with no ice, right?

Terje

--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:54:22 -0500
"Jeff and Stephanie Kalember" wrote:

Classic 50k race.

Conditions. Warm week melted a lot of snow then rain. Since then it
has refrozen solid ice with about 2 inches of new fresh cold snow on
top - low humidity. Several lake crossings with ice that may strip
kick wax right off. Race temp? probably 8deg F (-13C) warming to
12F (-11C)

For those not on the Ski Post list:

KICK-DOUBLE POLE IS YOUR FRIEND!
By Andrew Johnson 2010 Noquemanon Champion
This past weekend I was fortunate enough to ski in the Noquemanon Ski
Marathon in Marquette, MI. If you have not yet had the opportunity to
ski this race, and you have a propensity for long ski races, you should
put this event on your calendar for next season. The terrain, excellent
snow, technical and demanding trails, and the one-of-a-kind U.P.
scenery all combine to create a memorable weekend. This year's Noque
featured some transformed, cold, and very abrasive snow. The tracks
were perfect and the skiing was fast, but once we started racing it was
no secret that maintaining kick throughout the entire race was going to
be nearly impossible. Even with Toko Base Green Klister binder, the
talk in the front pack of the race was all about how long our kick
would last. Fortunately, most of the climbing on the Noque course
happens in the first 25 kilometers of the race, and the second half of
the course is much flatter, with significant elevation loss. It's quite
possible to double pole almost all of the second half of the race (if
you have to!), making good classic kick a little less important.
Between the sections of climbing during the first half of the race,
there is quite a bit of really nice rolling and gradual terrain. I
noticed in our lead pack of 15-or-so skiers that the technique of
choice was to double pole as much terrain as possible. I understand
this, as I feel that it's relatively easy to get into a double-pole
"groove" and find a good rhythm. Double-poling as long as possible,
switching to a stride for the steep sections, and going straight back
to double-pole is, to most people, the best way to get to the finish
line as fast as possible. However, once our lead pack settled into a
relaxed and consistent pace, I noticed that I could kick-double pole
many of the flatter sections much easier than I could double-pole.
Knowing that the second half of the race was going to provide plenty of
opportunity for double-poling, I figured it was best in the early going
to kick-double pole as much as possible and save my double-pole
energies for later - particularly since most of the other racers seemed
to be double-poling exclusively. Using a relaxed, long, and fluid
technique, the kick-double pole allowed me to ski at a lower intensity,
save my arms and core for later in the race, and let my legs to do some
light work and clear some lactate. For longer races and marathons where
there is likely to be more gradual terrain than most 10 or 15K races,
the kick-double pole is an often under-utilized technique. It is
difficult to master the kick-double pole to the point where it can be
an efficient and, more importantly, relaxed technique; I've know many
very good skiers who have never developed a really solid kick-double
pole in their careers. But it's worth working on and adding to your
arsenal of effective techniques. I have spent a lot of time in the
past, during the summer and fall, doing upper-body specific strength
workouts on rollerskis. A significant component of these workouts is
doing 30 second kick-double pole repeats on both gradual and steeper
hills. I concentrate on a long glide, a high position at the start of
the downward compression, and fast, powerful motions in both the
upper-body compression and kick initiation. Kick-double pole is your
friend. Learn it, and utilize it, to maximize your racing potential!
Oh, and put the Noque on your race calendar for next season - you won't
regret it!

Thanks for that Gene, where did you pick it up?
I was in the same boat, lost kick about 25-27k into the race. Double poled
a lot the second half.
good day overall though, enjoyed it all.

Jkal.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:54:22 -0500
"Jeff and Stephanie Kalember" wrote:

Classic 50k race.

Conditions. Warm week melted a lot of snow then rain. Since then it
has refrozen solid ice with about 2 inches of new fresh cold snow on
top - low humidity. Several lake crossings with ice that may strip
kick wax right off. Race temp? probably 8deg F (-13C) warming to
12F (-11C)

For those not on the Ski Post list:

KICK-DOUBLE POLE IS YOUR FRIEND!
By Andrew Johnson 2010 Noquemanon Champion
This past weekend I was fortunate enough to ski in the Noquemanon Ski
Marathon in Marquette, MI. If you have not yet had the opportunity to
ski this race, and you have a propensity for long ski races, you should
put this event on your calendar for next season. The terrain, excellent
snow, technical and demanding trails, and the one-of-a-kind U.P.
scenery all combine to create a memorable weekend. This year's Noque
featured some transformed, cold, and very abrasive snow. The tracks
were perfect and the skiing was fast, but once we started racing it was
no secret that maintaining kick throughout the entire race was going to
be nearly impossible. Even with Toko Base Green Klister binder, the
talk in the front pack of the race was all about how long our kick
would last. Fortunately, most of the climbing on the Noque course
happens in the first 25 kilometers of the race, and the second half of
the course is much flatter, with significant elevation loss. It's quite
possible to double pole almost all of the second half of the race (if
you have to!), making good classic kick a little less important.
Between the sections of climbing during the first half of the race,
there is quite a bit of really nice rolling and gradual terrain. I
noticed in our lead pack of 15-or-so skiers that the technique of
choice was to double pole as much terrain as possible. I understand
this, as I feel that it's relatively easy to get into a double-pole
"groove" and find a good rhythm. Double-poling as long as possible,
switching to a stride for the steep sections, and going straight back
to double-pole is, to most people, the best way to get to the finish
line as fast as possible. However, once our lead pack settled into a
relaxed and consistent pace, I noticed that I could kick-double pole
many of the flatter sections much easier than I could double-pole.
Knowing that the second half of the race was going to provide plenty of
opportunity for double-poling, I figured it was best in the early going
to kick-double pole as much as possible and save my double-pole
energies for later - particularly since most of the other racers seemed
to be double-poling exclusively. Using a relaxed, long, and fluid
technique, the kick-double pole allowed me to ski at a lower intensity,
save my arms and core for later in the race, and let my legs to do some
light work and clear some lactate. For longer races and marathons where
there is likely to be more gradual terrain than most 10 or 15K races,
the kick-double pole is an often under-utilized technique. It is
difficult to master the kick-double pole to the point where it can be
an efficient and, more importantly, relaxed technique; I've know many
very good skiers who have never developed a really solid kick-double
pole in their careers. But it's worth working on and adding to your
arsenal of effective techniques. I have spent a lot of time in the
past, during the summer and fall, doing upper-body specific strength
workouts on rollerskis. A significant component of these workouts is
doing 30 second kick-double pole repeats on both gradual and steeper
hills. I concentrate on a long glide, a high position at the start of
the downward compression, and fast, powerful motions in both the
upper-body compression and kick initiation. Kick-double pole is your
friend. Learn it, and utilize it, to maximize your racing potential!
Oh, and put the Noque on your race calendar for next season - you won't
regret it!

I thought it came from a Ski Post sometime between the Jan 7 and Jan 28
issues, but can't find it now.

Gene

On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:06:19 -0500
"Jeff and Stephanie Kalember" wrote:

Thanks for that Gene, where did you pick it up?
I was in the same boat, lost kick about 25-27k into the race. Double
poled a lot the second half.
good day overall though, enjoyed it all.

Jkal.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:54:22 -0500
"Jeff and Stephanie Kalember" wrote:

Classic 50k race.

Conditions. Warm week melted a lot of snow then rain. Since then
it has refrozen solid ice with about 2 inches of new fresh cold
snow on top - low humidity. Several lake crossings with ice that
may strip kick wax right off. Race temp? probably 8deg F (-13C)
warming to 12F (-11C)

For those not on the Ski Post list:

KICK-DOUBLE POLE IS YOUR FRIEND!
By Andrew Johnson 2010 Noquemanon Champion
This past weekend I was fortunate enough to ski in the Noquemanon
Ski Marathon in Marquette, MI. If you have not yet had the
opportunity to ski this race, and you have a propensity for long
ski races, you should put this event on your calendar for next
season. The terrain, excellent snow, technical and demanding
trails, and the one-of-a-kind U.P. scenery all combine to create a
memorable weekend. This year's Noque featured some transformed,
cold, and very abrasive snow. The tracks were perfect and the
skiing was fast, but once we started racing it was no secret that
maintaining kick throughout the entire race was going to be nearly
impossible. Even with Toko Base Green Klister binder, the talk in
the front pack of the race was all about how long our kick would
last. Fortunately, most of the climbing on the Noque course happens
in the first 25 kilometers of the race, and the second half of the
course is much flatter, with significant elevation loss. It's quite
possible to double pole almost all of the second half of the race
(if you have to!), making good classic kick a little less
important. Between the sections of climbing during the first half
of the race, there is quite a bit of really nice rolling and
gradual terrain. I noticed in our lead pack of 15-or-so skiers that
the technique of choice was to double pole as much terrain as
possible. I understand this, as I feel that it's relatively easy to
get into a double-pole "groove" and find a good rhythm.
Double-poling as long as possible, switching to a stride for the
steep sections, and going straight back to double-pole is, to most
people, the best way to get to the finish line as fast as possible.
However, once our lead pack settled into a relaxed and consistent
pace, I noticed that I could kick-double pole many of the flatter
sections much easier than I could double-pole. Knowing that the
second half of the race was going to provide plenty of opportunity
for double-poling, I figured it was best in the early going to
kick-double pole as much as possible and save my double-pole
energies for later - particularly since most of the other racers
seemed to be double-poling exclusively. Using a relaxed, long, and
fluid technique, the kick-double pole allowed me to ski at a lower
intensity, save my arms and core for later in the race, and let my
legs to do some light work and clear some lactate. For longer races
and marathons where there is likely to be more gradual terrain than
most 10 or 15K races, the kick-double pole is an often
under-utilized technique. It is difficult to master the kick-double
pole to the point where it can be an efficient and, more
importantly, relaxed technique; I've know many very good skiers who
have never developed a really solid kick-double pole in their
careers. But it's worth working on and adding to your arsenal of
effective techniques. I have spent a lot of time in the past,
during the summer and fall, doing upper-body specific strength
workouts on rollerskis. A significant component of these workouts
is doing 30 second kick-double pole repeats on both gradual and
steeper hills. I concentrate on a long glide, a high position at
the start of the downward compression, and fast, powerful motions
in both the upper-body compression and kick initiation. Kick-double
pole is your friend. Learn it, and utilize it, to maximize your
racing potential! Oh, and put the Noque on your race calendar for
next season - you won't regret it!