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(looong read) Worst training for XC Ski, but I love it!



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 14th 06, 10:52 PM
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Default (looong read) Worst training for XC Ski, but I love it!

Hi group,

I've had my mind set on becoming an XC skier for a centuries, but now with
the Olympics I've overcome my (overwhelming) fears of crashing and just
started training on the pair of Crosskates (www.crosskate.com) that have
been catching dust here for about 3-4 years or so.

I'm 29, a pretty strong mountainbike racer, living in the most snow-deprived
part of The Netherlands. I've never skied on snow, and only had one indoor
session on a snowboard. But against all those odds I have a dream to some
day be somewhat competitive on XC ski's on some sort of level. Always
thought my body could be suited for it. 1m94, 81-82kg now I've lost some
muscle, and extremely long arms and legs. Extremely strong cardio system (no
bragging), when it's not summer time at least, the past years I've cought
some sort of summer-astma.
Now I've been warned that these Crosskates are a BAD way to prepare myself
for the snow, I should be getting rollerski's. Unfortunately I cannot afford
that right now, when I'm going to spend it will be on raceble skate ski's
and I've got these Crosskates anyway, so why not give them a try while I'm
broke? One they they retailed for $750, a shame not to use them. No-one's
going to buy them from me anyway, too darn freaky and bulky :-)
And rollerski's, I resent the speed a good pair develops. and getting
especially slow ones, that just feels wrong.

I sort of tried these Crosskates ~2003, once around the block, but hardly
got rolling and felt really instable and uncoordinated. The tips of the
poles seemed to not get any traction, and I felt like I could break my legs
any second.
Now this year (couple weeks ago) I upgraded my Swix poles to rubber tips
(much better low-speed traction, at least for me), and locked out the heels
of the pivoting boots with a bunch of tie-wraps so I could concentrate more
on the skate-technique. Diagonal never appealed to me. If I ever want to
take part in a classic event one time I'll just rent some gear for it, or
suffer double time on my skate ski's :-)

I've done a few Crosskate rides (or ski's, skates, how do you call it?) the
past weeks, and enjoying a very steep learning curve. With only 2-6km each
time, I feel progress in my technique and speed even through the ride.
Just now I got back from a late-evening trianing session with a friend. He
on his rollerblades, out of shape, but motivated to together train on our
skating.
There's this remote corporate park outside my appt building, with super
smooth rolling asphalt, good lighting, decently wide corners, and pretty
much zero traffic. Just a couple late workaholics and security agents on
patrol is all you see over the course of more than an hour. so there we
were, using all the road's width, fighting he wind. I wanted to do this,
right there, for years, but for some reason it never happened. A lesson to
be learned here.

It was just 2 degrees above freezing, but no pain at all, perfect actually.
One particular lap, all lefthanders, we measured with his bike, is pretty
much exactly 1km long, ideal for timed laps. Good place to come back for
more sessions like today's. I managed around 8-9km, my personal high (I know
it's nothing to you monsters). I did however also do my first jog in 4 weeks
before diner, 6km as well.
Where last saturday I managed 15.5kmh (again checked by a bike) and maybe a
bit faster for no longer than ~100m, today I did a 1km lap with some
problems and exhaustion making me resort to doublepoling, with a 15.9kmh
average! Gotta love a learning curve like that! That's with a nasty headwind
section in the lap. With tailwind, I now manage over 20kmh. Not a real
sprint, I lack the technique for that, and not even full aerobic, my
heartrate doesn't rise that much yet. My arms or legs just go sore too
quickly.

My short-term goal is to set a 3min lap, 20kph around that lap (+25%), get
on top of that speed and learn to go even faster really using the muscles
I'm sure I have for it somewhere.
Also I want to build endurance to be able to go on longer out-and-back
rides, time myself on 5kms and 10kms or longer, V2'ing all the way.
I'm also working on my running (silly triathlon plan), and currently even
though I'm just starting, it's still faster than my Crosskates, because I
can maintain the speed more easily. As I work on both, I'm sure the
Crosskates will become faster than the running, more to be gained there.

I'm looking at maybe budget-building my own rollerski's, these Crosskates
are of course a bit bulky, some 5kg per foot all-in. It might be nice to use
150mm Rollerblade Coyote wheels, for the smoothness I want and not too much
speed. For now, the Crosskates seem pretty realistic in terms of speed
compared to snow. Perhaps slightly faster even, but it's hard for me to
guess, only knowing pro ski average speeds, and my own first baby steps on
perfectly flat terrain. Faster tires for my skates would be nice, but hard
to find.

I just hope that when I get the hang of this Crosskating a little bit, I
won't have to start 100% from scratch when I find myself on my first ski
lesson in some winter resort I booked a $$$ trip to. I hate making a fool
out of myself! And I guess the muscles I'm training (I feel them all
individually right now, so sore) can't be all that different from what
you're supposed use in the snow?

For those that were so bored at work that they made it this far into my post
: I tried, but find it really hard to V1 (pole with each skate?). I just
don't get the poles back quickly enough to coordinate putting them down. Am
I just making a newby error, or is it just really hard? I could slow down my
skate more, but that doesn't seem to be a solution when the road goes up a
bit.

I hate myself for not having picked up on this fun years ago while I had the
friggin' things laying under my bed all this time. It took lots of
enthousiasm from televised races and unique-even-to-the-Netherlands ****ing
winter weather to overcome my fears and really give it a go. At least my
body doesn't feel old yet, apart from the summer astma, I really still have
the same lazy body as 10 years ago. I can become a strong skier if I train
for it a couple years, can't I?

Anyone have a job for me somewhere with XC snow from september to may? save
me buying or builers those rollerski's...for now the Crosskates seem to do
just fine though, amazingly fun, not freaky fast, and an excellent workout.

For those with guaranteed snow in the winters, know how blessed you are! I
was glad it didn't RAIN for a couple days here! Thanks for your compassion.

Happy trails,

J


Ads
  #2  
Old March 15th 06, 12:13 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
Hi group,

I've had my mind set on becoming an XC skier for a centuries, but now
with the Olympics I've overcome my (overwhelming) fears of crashing
and just started training on the pair of Crosskates
(www.crosskate.com) that have been catching dust here for about 3-4
years or so.

I'm 29, a pretty strong mountainbike racer, living in the most
snow-deprived part of The Netherlands. I've never skied on snow, and
only had one indoor session on a snowboard. But against all those
odds I have a dream to some day be somewhat competitive on XC ski's
on some sort of level. Always thought my body could be suited for it.
1m94, 81-82kg now I've lost some muscle, and extremely long arms and
legs. Extremely strong cardio system (no bragging), when it's not
summer time at least, the past years I've cought some sort of
summer-astma.
Now I've been warned that these Crosskates are a BAD way to prepare
myself for the snow, I should be getting rollerski's. Unfortunately I
cannot afford that right now, when I'm going to spend it will be on
raceble skate ski's and I've got these Crosskates anyway, so why not
give them a try while I'm broke? One they they retailed for $750, a
shame not to use them. No-one's going to buy them from me anyway, too
darn freaky and bulky :-)
And rollerski's, I resent the speed a good pair develops. and getting
especially slow ones, that just feels wrong.

I sort of tried these Crosskates ~2003, once around the block, but
hardly got rolling and felt really instable and uncoordinated. The
tips of the poles seemed to not get any traction, and I felt like I
could break my legs any second.
Now this year (couple weeks ago) I upgraded my Swix poles to rubber
tips (much better low-speed traction, at least for me), and locked
out the heels of the pivoting boots with a bunch of tie-wraps so I
could concentrate more on the skate-technique. Diagonal never
appealed to me. If I ever want to take part in a classic event one
time I'll just rent some gear for it, or suffer double time on my
skate ski's :-)

I've done a few Crosskate rides (or ski's, skates, how do you call
it?) the past weeks, and enjoying a very steep learning curve. With
only 2-6km each time, I feel progress in my technique and speed even
through the ride.
Just now I got back from a late-evening trianing session with a
friend. He on his rollerblades, out of shape, but motivated to
together train on our skating.
There's this remote corporate park outside my appt building, with
super smooth rolling asphalt, good lighting, decently wide corners,
and pretty much zero traffic. Just a couple late workaholics and
security agents on patrol is all you see over the course of more than
an hour. so there we were, using all the road's width, fighting he
wind. I wanted to do this, right there, for years, but for some
reason it never happened. A lesson to be learned here.

It was just 2 degrees above freezing, but no pain at all, perfect
actually. One particular lap, all lefthanders, we measured with his
bike, is pretty much exactly 1km long, ideal for timed laps. Good
place to come back for more sessions like today's. I managed around
8-9km, my personal high (I know it's nothing to you monsters). I did
however also do my first jog in 4 weeks before diner, 6km as well.
Where last saturday I managed 15.5kmh (again checked by a bike) and
maybe a bit faster for no longer than ~100m, today I did a 1km lap
with some problems and exhaustion making me resort to doublepoling,
with a 15.9kmh average! Gotta love a learning curve like that! That's
with a nasty headwind section in the lap. With tailwind, I now manage
over 20kmh. Not a real sprint, I lack the technique for that, and not
even full aerobic, my heartrate doesn't rise that much yet. My arms
or legs just go sore too quickly.

My short-term goal is to set a 3min lap, 20kph around that lap
(+25%), get on top of that speed and learn to go even faster really
using the muscles I'm sure I have for it somewhere.
Also I want to build endurance to be able to go on longer out-and-back
rides, time myself on 5kms and 10kms or longer, V2'ing all the way.
I'm also working on my running (silly triathlon plan), and currently
even though I'm just starting, it's still faster than my Crosskates,
because I can maintain the speed more easily. As I work on both, I'm
sure the Crosskates will become faster than the running, more to be
gained there.

I'm looking at maybe budget-building my own rollerski's, these
Crosskates are of course a bit bulky, some 5kg per foot all-in. It
might be nice to use 150mm Rollerblade Coyote wheels, for the
smoothness I want and not too much speed. For now, the Crosskates
seem pretty realistic in terms of speed compared to snow. Perhaps
slightly faster even, but it's hard for me to guess, only knowing pro
ski average speeds, and my own first baby steps on perfectly flat
terrain. Faster tires for my skates would be nice, but hard to find.

I just hope that when I get the hang of this Crosskating a little
bit, I won't have to start 100% from scratch when I find myself on my
first ski lesson in some winter resort I booked a $$$ trip to. I hate
making a fool out of myself! And I guess the muscles I'm training (I
feel them all individually right now, so sore) can't be all that
different from what you're supposed use in the snow?

For those that were so bored at work that they made it this far into
my post
I tried, but find it really hard to V1 (pole with each skate?). I
just

don't get the poles back quickly enough to coordinate putting them
down. Am I just making a newby error, or is it just really hard? I
could slow down my skate more, but that doesn't seem to be a solution
when the road goes up a bit.

I hate myself for not having picked up on this fun years ago while I
had the friggin' things laying under my bed all this time. It took
lots of enthousiasm from televised races and
unique-even-to-the-Netherlands ****ing winter weather to overcome my
fears and really give it a go. At least my body doesn't feel old yet,
apart from the summer astma, I really still have the same lazy body
as 10 years ago. I can become a strong skier if I train for it a
couple years, can't I?

Anyone have a job for me somewhere with XC snow from september to
may? save me buying or builers those rollerski's...for now the
Crosskates seem to do just fine though, amazingly fun, not freaky
fast, and an excellent workout.

For those with guaranteed snow in the winters, know how blessed you
are! I was glad it didn't RAIN for a couple days here! Thanks for
your compassion.

Happy trails,


You should include running and ski-walking in the mountains (steep terrain)
in your training. You do have montains somewhere in Netherlands?

--
Terje Henriksen
Kirkenes




  #3  
Old March 15th 06, 01:18 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Good luck with your new project!

Offhand, I'd strongly suggest learning as much as you can of the basics
online. Probably several of the main sites show a lot of helpful info
on good technique. Also find the links here to the many online video
chunks that one of our group members puts up for the whole world to
greatly enjoy.

I'd also suggest unbinding the heel of your boot. But who knows maybe
those Crossskates are just too much for a free heel. All XC has a free
heel.

You mention trouble with your V1. Have you seen video of it online?

I find that cheap poles are way too heavy for fun with skating. Perhaps
around $50US you can start to get poles light enough for skating joy.
Carbon is really the way to go---but don't fall on them. My aluminum
skate poles are just too heavy---skate poles are longer so anything but
carbon seems too heavy to me for good technique.

Google up the Jesenik rollerskis. I think his cheap models are $50US. I
bought a pair and love them. I doubt you could make your own any
cheaper---and surely not better. (But RS's really aren't complex: beams
with inline skate wheels.)

I would think that inline skates plus poles would be more fun and more
like XC than using big heavy Crosskates.

Also, get tips for your poles that are meant for rollerskiing: hard
carbide points ($10US a set). Then keep them sharp with a chisel edge.
They should dig in just fine (colder than 20F is a pain, tho).

Good luck! --JP upnorthmag.com

  #4  
Old March 15th 06, 08:16 AM
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Default


Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:
snip

Sounds like you would like winter triathlon: (ski, bike, run)

http://www.home.no/vintertriathlon/W...mpionships.htm


Anyone have a job for me somewhere with XC snow from september to may? save


What do you do? Computer stuff? September to May might be pushing it
around here, but I'm looking out the window at falling snow (15cm last
12 hours) on 1m base and -5C. And that's at my house by the seaside.
Inland where the trails are is even better.

For those with guaranteed snow in the winters, know how blessed you are! I
was glad it didn't RAIN for a couple days here! Thanks for your compassion.


You guys have great speed-skating facilities. Look on the bright side!

Joseph

  #5  
Old March 15th 06, 09:06 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You should include running and ski-walking in the mountains (steep
terrain)
in your training. You do have montains somewhere in Netherlands?

Thanks! As I'm trying to become more of an allround athlete, running does
belong to that. There's an X-Terra traithlon a couple hundred meters from my
birthplace in June, and I'd like to take part and not look like too much of
a newbie. So, running it is for the coming months. 4 weeks ago I did my
first 10km in 10 years, and again in the 45min it used to take me back in
the days. Planning to go sub-40 before June. Hopping, really.
I've read that running is good for skiing, another good reason for me to do
some more and get faster with it. I guess before I raise any brows in
skiing, I'll require a 36min 10km fitness or something?

I don't have a car. The biggest hills I can reach by bike are up to 35m
tall, former waste dumps turned recreational areas. Some have indoor ski
halls stuck to them to save building material.
One 10m tall hill, 17km from my home, is used for a rollerski course, open
to the public.
1km from my home is a tunnel open to pedastrians and cyclists, around 10-15m
to conquer over 500m.
The rest is either extremely steep with rough pavement, or offroad paths.
I guess I could run up and down those small bumps to build leg muscle.
Closest thing to moutains we have starting 2+ hours in the car, peaks of
just over 300m above sea level. 4+ hours by car, we have Winterberg in
Germany.


  #6  
Old March 15th 06, 09:31 AM
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Default

Yes, I've started reading anything I can find on XC online, eating it like
butter cookies. In my own language, no websites seem to have been updated
since 2003. No forums with any traffic. I'll have to catch up on my German,
or continue in english.
A friend is helping me figure out how I get access to uploaded video's. all
I know about newsgroups is that I somehow managed to get access to this list
in Outlook Express.

The heel. Perhaps the coil spring that pressed the heel towards the skate is
too weak. It always seems cumbersome, react very unexpectedly. Before they
went bust, I seem to remember reading that Crosskate was planning a special
device to lock the heels for skating purposes. Surprised to hear that
they're supposed to be free. Perhaps the weight of the skate and rear wheel
is just too much to get a natural movement going.
Anyways, when I skate now, my friend tells me it totally looks like XC
skiing on TV. I don't seem to miss the free heel, doublepoling seems to work
just fine considering my utter lack of experience.

As I made my laps last night, a couple without poles, I keep finding ways to
get more muscle and speed into my strokes. Using my abs to give my arms a
bit of a break, etc.

I was already suspecting maybe my poles are too heavy for V1. Perhaps I
should make the grips thicker with tape, I read on that. I've got large
hands, don't have much grip on the thin slippery plastic grips.

My Swix poles had those hard carbide points, but they would just slide over
the road when I tried them. Perhaps now I have built sufficient skating
speed to get them to provide traction. For now and as long as I'm rolling,
the rubber tips really feel awesome. Soft landings and good push-off. Silent
also, I hated the steel-on-stone noice of the carbide points. I can swap
them back some day and see how they work for me now.

I saw the Jenesik rollerski's just before you mentioned them yesterday, yes.
I trust they're much lighter and faster than Crosskates, but the lack of
brakes scares me. Also, I don't have XC boots or bindings yet. Right now I'm
enjoying the stability of the heavy Crosskates, and the way they seem
similar in speed and comfort to real snow. They're really large (616mm
wheelbase+250mm wheels), which I would guess prepares me for the room I'll
need in my skating to not fall over my (190cm?) ski's. I do have this system
of perfect asphalt road around the corner, but when I go for a tour,
rollerski's with anything under 130mm wheels won't be fun, I suspect.
How much does a long ski+binding+boot weight? 5kg per foot for these
Crosskates :-)

Since my buddy is on inlines, and me being on this skating high, I may just
overcome my crashing fears once more and get me a pair of inlines for some
speedy fun. Not sure I'd like to pole with them though, it looks like a
restricting action. In an effort to be cost-consious, I'm looking into
sticking my hockey boots on his older inline frame. I'm a size 13/47-48
boot, nothing on the used market in that.

Again thanks for your help Jeff!

schreef in bericht
oups.com...
Good luck with your new project!

Offhand, I'd strongly suggest learning as much as you can of the basics
online. Probably several of the main sites show a lot of helpful info
on good technique. Also find the links here to the many online video
chunks that one of our group members puts up for the whole world to
greatly enjoy.

I'd also suggest unbinding the heel of your boot. But who knows maybe
those Crossskates are just too much for a free heel. All XC has a free
heel.

You mention trouble with your V1. Have you seen video of it online?

I find that cheap poles are way too heavy for fun with skating. Perhaps
around $50US you can start to get poles light enough for skating joy.
Carbon is really the way to go---but don't fall on them. My aluminum
skate poles are just too heavy---skate poles are longer so anything but
carbon seems too heavy to me for good technique.

Google up the Jesenik rollerskis. I think his cheap models are $50US. I
bought a pair and love them. I doubt you could make your own any
cheaper---and surely not better. (But RS's really aren't complex: beams
with inline skate wheels.)

I would think that inline skates plus poles would be more fun and more
like XC than using big heavy Crosskates.

Also, get tips for your poles that are meant for rollerskiing: hard
carbide points ($10US a set). Then keep them sharp with a chisel edge.
They should dig in just fine (colder than 20F is a pain, tho).

Good luck! --JP upnorthmag.com



  #7  
Old March 15th 06, 09:43 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Sounds like you would like winter triathlon: (ski, bike, run)

http://www.home.no/vintertriathlon/W...mpionships.htm


Oh brother, would I ever like that!
Thanks for watering my mouth! (I think biathlon would still satisfy me even
better, and that for an anti-guns person)

Elite and U 23 - 7,5 km run - 12 km MTB - 9 km XC-ski

In triathlon fields I really don't fear the competition on the MTB, in good
shape I should set around the fastest split for that on any level (I'm real
cocky about that, I know).
In the Netherlands sometimes they do winter triathlon with speedskating
rather than skiing.
Maybe some day...

I'm fascinated by speedskating on TV. Would love to be able to get around a
lap under 40s, but I'm not sure I have the super-fine motoric skills for it.
I could take lessons, but never really did. A man can do only so much...
Don't think that because we have good speedskaters, every city has it's own
ring, not so. I do have rings at 25km, 70km, 110km, 140km, etc from here.
The past years no ice on the channels or lakes to get a good practive. I can
remember when I was on the ice for weeks on end as a kid, and the thing
almost got dull. Thanks el Nino!

I'm not into computers other than surfing, but spent some years in IT
anyway. The administrative and commercial sides of things. I envy your snow!
:-)

I'll try to get a video shot on my crosskating action for all of you to
comment on. Seems every little thing I improve on my skate, I gain 1kph and
fatigue less.

Happy trails all!

J



Anyone have a job for me somewhere with XC snow from september to may?

save

What do you do? Computer stuff? September to May might be pushing it
around here, but I'm looking out the window at falling snow (15cm last
12 hours) on 1m base and -5C. And that's at my house by the seaside.
Inland where the trails are is even better.

For those with guaranteed snow in the winters, know how blessed you are!

I
was glad it didn't RAIN for a couple days here! Thanks for your

compassion.

You guys have great speed-skating facilities. Look on the bright side!

Joseph



  #8  
Old March 15th 06, 09:56 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Jan Gerrit Klok wrote:


Sounds like you would like winter triathlon: (ski, bike, run)

http://www.home.no/vintertriathlon/W...mpionships.htm


Oh brother, would I ever like that!
Thanks for watering my mouth! (I think biathlon would still satisfy me even
better, and that for an anti-guns person)

Elite and U 23 - 7,5 km run - 12 km MTB - 9 km XC-ski

In triathlon fields I really don't fear the competition on the MTB, in good
shape I should set around the fastest split for that on any level (I'm real
cocky about that, I know).


MTB in Norway is at a pretty high level. You should pop over for some
of the rides. Lots of fun.


In the Netherlands sometimes they do winter triathlon with speedskating
rather than skiing.
Maybe some day...

I'm fascinated by speedskating on TV. Would love to be able to get around a
lap under 40s, but I'm not sure I have the super-fine motoric skills for it.
I could take lessons, but never really did. A man can do only so much...
Don't think that because we have good speedskaters, every city has it's own
ring, not so. I do have rings at 25km, 70km, 110km, 140km, etc from here.
The past years no ice on the channels or lakes to get a good practive. I can
remember when I was on the ice for weeks on end as a kid, and the thing
almost got dull. Thanks el Nino!

I'm not into computers other than surfing, but spent some years in IT
anyway. The administrative and commercial sides of things. I envy your snow!
:-)


What do you mean "the administrative side"? Paperwork, or pushing the
buttons? We are looking for a Systems Administrator for web/email
hosting company.

Joseph

I'll try to get a video shot on my crosskating action for all of you to
comment on. Seems every little thing I improve on my skate, I gain 1kph and
fatigue less.

Happy trails all!

J



Anyone have a job for me somewhere with XC snow from september to may?

save

What do you do? Computer stuff? September to May might be pushing it
around here, but I'm looking out the window at falling snow (15cm last
12 hours) on 1m base and -5C. And that's at my house by the seaside.
Inland where the trails are is even better.

For those with guaranteed snow in the winters, know how blessed you are!

I
was glad it didn't RAIN for a couple days here! Thanks for your

compassion.

You guys have great speed-skating facilities. Look on the bright side!

Joseph


  #9  
Old March 15th 06, 10:35 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


schreef in bericht
ups.com...
MTB in Norway is at a pretty high level. You should pop over for some
of the rides. Lots of fun.

If holidays were so simple for me to go on, I'd have gone there long before!

What do you mean "the administrative side"? Paperwork, or pushing the
buttons? We are looking for a Systems Administrator for web/email
hosting company.

Administrating products and actions, light helpdesk stuff, sending out
packages, pre-sales, writing documentation, etc.



  #10  
Old March 15th 06, 01:19 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

PS: Do you have ICE around and any ice skates? If it's wild ice, you
can REALLY use the poles and skate along. A headwind gives decent
resistance like a hill. --JP

 




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