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using digital camera on the mountain



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 1st 04, 02:15 AM
Dmitry
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Default using digital camera on the mountain

Unexpected tax refund made me thinking.. What's a good camera to
take on the mountain, and more importantly, what's the technique?

I did get a couple of decent snaps with my digital Minolta F-100 (4MP,
3x optical zoom). I was setting everything to manual - this camera
actually allows that. Minimum aperture (f8 I think), fixed focus (~20 feet),
fixed shutter (minimum), ISO 100. Then gave the camera to my friend
and instructed her to not use LCD but use an eyepiece, and just press
shutter release and hold it keeping the rider (myself) in frame. This
produced a series of shots, and out of about 8 a couple were actually
pretty good. Here's one:

http://www.azazello.net/misc/sb.jpg

Now that camera is gone for good and I'm thinking about getting a
new one.

Having a big zoom is desirable I guess, but at the same time
would you be comfortable riding with big hard objects in the
backpack? This just doesn't seem to be a good idea to me,
back injuries are among the worst. Something slim and easily
pocketable seems to be the ticket, but those cameras only
have 3x zoom at best.

Also, manual controls are a concern. I'm not sure even the
latest consumer cameras can handle focusing on fast moving
targets on the snow. Snow usually throws their metering off
and they overexpose like crazy.

Maybe a pocket-size camera and a telephoto add-on lens would do
the job?

Anyway, if you have any positive experience with taking
action shots while snowboarding, please share. TIA!

--
Dmitry


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  #2  
Old March 1st 04, 06:35 AM
tlf
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Default using digital camera on the mountain

I use an Olympus S300 - 3.2MP/3xOptical smaller then a deck of cards. Works
pretty good - slim and water resistant - has yet to fog. I carry it in my
chest pocket. 27 days and no problems yet. It also has video capture which
is not amazing but i consider it pretty good.

"Dmitry" wrote in message
news:Z0x0c.89826$4o.113910@attbi_s52...
Unexpected tax refund made me thinking.. What's a good camera to
take on the mountain, and more importantly, what's the technique?

I did get a couple of decent snaps with my digital Minolta F-100 (4MP,
3x optical zoom). I was setting everything to manual - this camera
actually allows that. Minimum aperture (f8 I think), fixed focus (~20

feet),
fixed shutter (minimum), ISO 100. Then gave the camera to my friend
and instructed her to not use LCD but use an eyepiece, and just press
shutter release and hold it keeping the rider (myself) in frame. This
produced a series of shots, and out of about 8 a couple were actually
pretty good. Here's one:

http://www.azazello.net/misc/sb.jpg

Now that camera is gone for good and I'm thinking about getting a
new one.

Having a big zoom is desirable I guess, but at the same time
would you be comfortable riding with big hard objects in the
backpack? This just doesn't seem to be a good idea to me,
back injuries are among the worst. Something slim and easily
pocketable seems to be the ticket, but those cameras only
have 3x zoom at best.

Also, manual controls are a concern. I'm not sure even the
latest consumer cameras can handle focusing on fast moving
targets on the snow. Snow usually throws their metering off
and they overexpose like crazy.

Maybe a pocket-size camera and a telephoto add-on lens would do
the job?

Anyway, if you have any positive experience with taking
action shots while snowboarding, please share. TIA!

--
Dmitry




  #3  
Old March 1st 04, 07:36 AM
Arvin Chang
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Posts: n/a
Default using digital camera on the mountain

"Dmitry" wrote in message news:Z0x0c.89826$4o.113910@attbi_s52...
Unexpected tax refund made me thinking.. What's a good camera to
take on the mountain, and more importantly, what's the technique?

I did get a couple of decent snaps with my digital Minolta F-100 (4MP,
3x optical zoom). I was setting everything to manual - this camera
actually allows that. Minimum aperture (f8 I think), fixed focus (~20 feet),
fixed shutter (minimum), ISO 100. Then gave the camera to my friend
and instructed her to not use LCD but use an eyepiece, and just press
shutter release and hold it keeping the rider (myself) in frame. This
produced a series of shots, and out of about 8 a couple were actually
pretty good. Here's one:

http://www.azazello.net/misc/sb.jpg

Now that camera is gone for good and I'm thinking about getting a
new one.

Having a big zoom is desirable I guess, but at the same time
would you be comfortable riding with big hard objects in the
backpack? This just doesn't seem to be a good idea to me,
back injuries are among the worst. Something slim and easily
pocketable seems to be the ticket, but those cameras only
have 3x zoom at best.

Also, manual controls are a concern. I'm not sure even the
latest consumer cameras can handle focusing on fast moving
targets on the snow. Snow usually throws their metering off
and they overexpose like crazy.

Maybe a pocket-size camera and a telephoto add-on lens would do
the job?

Anyway, if you have any positive experience with taking
action shots while snowboarding, please share. TIA!


What happened to your camera? The F-100 is a nice camera for
snowboarding photos.

Here are a few photos that I've taken a few years ago -
http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=ChangArvin&AID=1380965

Are you sure that snow causes your camera to overexpose? I've found
that when the scene is predominantly snow, it fools the camera into
underexposing (because it thinks that the white snow is some type of
very bright object). So to compensate I usually use +0.5-0.7 EV
exposure compensation or spot meter off an object.

I usually shoot with a polarizing filter in either shutter priority or
manual mode. In sunny weather I am usually using minimum apeture (F8)
although I might go wider to get at least a 1/250s shutter speed. In
general I usually prefocused off a point by aiming at where the rider
will be in 2 seconds (very easy for jumps) and half-pressing the
shutter button. I have used fixed focus as well (prefocusing and then
switching to manul focus mode).

As for zoom I agree that a bigger lens can be useful, but not always.
In the past I've used a Olympus 2100UZ (38-380mm lens) and a Sony F707
(38-190mm) and the reach is nice, but sometimes I wish I had a fisheye
so I could get really close to the jump and still pull in most of the
surroundings. I usually carried my camera in a side holster bag, but I
would be taking it easy so as not to fall on it (i.e. I don't take
those larger cameras up all the time). If you want a 10x zoom that is
compact, maybe you could look at the new Olympus C-765 (I think the
C-750 is essentially the same). It has a 38-380mm zoom while only
being 105 x 60 x 69 mm in size. To compare your F100 was 111 x 52 x 32
mm in size.

Personally I'm not a big fan of add-on telephoto lenses for digital
cameras as I think they degrade image quality too much. There are a
few cameras with 4-5x lens that are still pretty compact. I agree that
the AF systems on consumer digital cameras are too slow for fast
moving objects, but I have some the prefocus/fix focus setup to be
highly effective. If you camera has custom options like the G5 you can
set two quick presets and flip between the two.

I'm still considering buying a smaller camera to carry on the
mountain... not quite sure what I'm going to get, but the Canon A80
looks good. I'm still shopping though.

--Arvin
  #4  
Old March 2nd 04, 12:24 AM
Mike M. Miskulin
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Default using digital camera on the mountain

"Dmitry" wrote in
news:Z0x0c.89826$4o.113910@attbi_s52:


targets on the snow. Snow usually throws their metering off
and they overexpose like crazy.


Thnk you mean underexpose. Meters want to make everything neutral
grey.

A polarizer will help with the sky and a neutral density filter
should keep you from situations where the snow is just too fast
for the camera.

As for zoom.. depends what you are taking.. if you are more
or less setting shots up than you can probably position yourself
close enough for the lower power zoom.

  #5  
Old March 2nd 04, 04:58 AM
Dmitry
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Posts: n/a
Default using digital camera on the mountain


"Mike M. Miskulin" wrote

targets on the snow. Snow usually throws their metering off
and they overexpose like crazy.


Thnk you mean underexpose. Meters want to make everything neutral
grey.


Yes!

A polarizer will help with the sky and a neutral density filter
should keep you from situations where the snow is just too fast
for the camera.


Umm.. Filters.. Ok, this narrows the camera selection even more,
because not many consumer p&s have filter threads.

As for zoom.. depends what you are taking.. if you are more
or less setting shots up than you can probably position yourself
close enough for the lower power zoom.


I'm leaning to just getting a new ultra-small camera like Optio S
or PowerShot S400. Looks like there's nothing there on the market
that offers substantially more in small-sized cameras as far as
qualities I'm interested in. Staged shots, pre-focusing and
exposure compensation. Ugh!

I was kinda hoping to get a camera that will also be useable for
picturing kitesurfing, but that definitely requires a very big
zoom, so looks like Panazonic FZ1 or FZ10 would be my summer camera..


  #6  
Old March 2nd 04, 05:10 AM
Dmitry
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Posts: n/a
Default using digital camera on the mountain


"Arvin Chang" wrote

Anyway, if you have any positive experience with taking
action shots while snowboarding, please share. TIA!


What happened to your camera? The F-100 is a nice camera for
snowboarding photos.


I dropped it into the lake :-) That's the down side of the pocket
camera - jump into the mountain lake with your bare ass, then try
to put your pants on real fast - and it slips right out of the back
pocket!

Here are a few photos that I've taken a few years ago -
http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=ChangArvin&AID=1380965


Were those done with a 3x zoom or more? Nice shots!

Are you sure that snow causes your camera to overexpose?


Freudian slip. Underexposed of course.

I usually shoot with a polarizing filter in either shutter priority or
manual mode. In sunny weather I am usually using minimum apeture (F8)
although I might go wider to get at least a 1/250s shutter speed. In
general I usually prefocused off a point by aiming at where the rider
will be in 2 seconds (very easy for jumps) and half-pressing the
shutter button. I have used fixed focus as well (prefocusing and then
switching to manul focus mode).


Hey thanks for your tips. Sometimes it's hard to find something to
pre-focus on in the middle of a bowl, but I recall that even p&s
cameras often have manual focus - they just don't have manual shutter
and aperture.

C-750 is essentially the same). It has a 38-380mm zoom while only
being 105 x 60 x 69 mm in size. To compare your F100 was 111 x 52 x 32
mm in size.


Well, see, here's my take: I'm going there to ride, not take pictures.
If it's possible to also take pictures without affecting my riding,
I'll bite. 6 centimeters is probably something that will be quite
noticeable. So I guess I'm asking for too much, will have to make do
with just an ultra-compact p&s.

I'm still considering buying a smaller camera to carry on the
mountain... not quite sure what I'm going to get, but the Canon A80
looks good. I'm still shopping though.


It's interesting if the swivel LCD is actually useful for our use-case..
Maybe sometimes it would be good to hold the camera over your head or
on the contrary close to the ground. But yeah, A80 seems to be a good
choice.



  #7  
Old March 2nd 04, 05:23 AM
Dmitry
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Posts: n/a
Default using digital camera on the mountain


"Dmitry" wrote

pre-focus on in the middle of a bowl, but I recall that even p&s
cameras often have manual focus - they just don't have manual shutter
and aperture.


I have to thake that back. Checked the specs, turned out only a
few p&s cameras offer manual focus.



  #8  
Old March 2nd 04, 06:55 PM
Arvin Chang
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Default using digital camera on the mountain

"Dmitry" wrote in message news:dHU0c.160636$jk2.604598@attbi_s53...
Here are a few photos that I've taken a few years ago -
http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=ChangArvin&AID=1380965


Were those done with a 3x zoom or more? Nice shots!


Those photos were taken with a camera with a greater than 3x zoom, but
I never used the extra zoom (I checked the EXIF info). That's what I
mean, after 4 years of owning a camera with either 5 or 10x zoom, I
found out that so long as I have good access to the location (i.e. I'm
not stuck behind a fence or a barrier), I don't usually end up using
the extra zoom for snowboarding photos. For once thing, tracking
someone going fast in full zoom is not the easiest thing in the world
(usually need a tripod or a camera bean bag).

I usually shoot with a polarizing filter in either shutter priority or
manual mode. In sunny weather I am usually using minimum apeture (F8)
although I might go wider to get at least a 1/250s shutter speed. In
general I usually prefocused off a point by aiming at where the rider
will be in 2 seconds (very easy for jumps) and half-pressing the
shutter button. I have used fixed focus as well (prefocusing and then
switching to manul focus mode).


Hey thanks for your tips. Sometimes it's hard to find something to
pre-focus on in the middle of a bowl, but I recall that even p&s


I usually point the camera at a patch of snow approximately the
distance I plan to shoot at. A bowl should be good for this as trees
tend to confuse the focusing system (unless you set it to spot meter).

Well, see, here's my take: I'm going there to ride, not take pictures.
If it's possible to also take pictures without affecting my riding,
I'll bite. 6 centimeters is probably something that will be quite
noticeable. So I guess I'm asking for too much, will have to make do
with just an ultra-compact p&s.


Yea, I am usually not satisfied with spur of the moment photos and so
when I take photos, I usually end up traversing or hiking somewhere
that I wouldn't normally go anyway. You'd be surprised at how large
the pockets are on your snowboard jacket. Many are designed to carry a
CD player, so a regular compact digital camera can easily fit, the
weight isn't very much either. The main thing is whether you are
afraid of falling on your camera. Bigger cameras tend to be more
easily crushed because they have longer protrusion... a ultracompact
like Canon's digital elph or the Casio Z4 (same base design as Optio
S) are so small/flat that you aren't likely to land on them.

I'm still considering buying a smaller camera to carry on the
mountain... not quite sure what I'm going to get, but the Canon A80
looks good. I'm still shopping though.


It's interesting if the swivel LCD is actually useful for our use-case..
Maybe sometimes it would be good to hold the camera over your head or
on the contrary close to the ground. But yeah, A80 seems to be a good
choice.


I really enjoyed the swivel body of the Sony F707 for exactly the
reasons you mentioned. My only problem is that you don't get the same
flexibility when shooting in portrait framing (on the side). I've
heard only great things about the swivel LCD from the Canon G4 and A80
and am interested in it. In terms of snowboarding shooting, it lets
you keep the camera away from your face and so you are more aware of
your surroundings (like if someone is out of control and about to
crazy into you).

Good luck on your camera shopping, I will let you know if I decide on
a camera myself.

--Arvin
  #9  
Old March 3rd 04, 04:32 AM
Dmitry
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Posts: n/a
Default using digital camera on the mountain


"Arvin Chang" wrote

Good luck on your camera shopping, I will let you know if I decide on
a camera myself.


Looks like I'm getting a Kyocera SL300R. Extremely small, has AP mode,
manual focus, LCD that works in direct sunlight, 3x zoom, swivel, and
all reviews rave about very good power-up and shot to shot times.

If only I could figure out if it's worth paying $100 more for a T* lens in
the twin Contax..

--
Dmitry


  #10  
Old March 3rd 04, 05:26 AM
Mike M. Miskulin
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Default using digital camera on the mountain

"Dmitry" wrote in news:zvU0c.99663
$4o.120672@attbi_s52:


Umm.. Filters.. Ok, this narrows the camera selection even more,
because not many consumer p&s have filter threads.


my canon g2 takes filters but you have to add an adapter. Think
with any of them like you said you have to move up the product
ladder a bit and then you run into the $ vs destruction problem!


 




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