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Integrated Binding Systems



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 5th 07, 11:28 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Alan Fried
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Posts: 35
Default Integrated Binding Systems

I'm about to purchase a pair of Fischer AMC 76 Skis for myself and Volkl
Attiva AC2 Skis for my wife.
We know these are the right skis because we demoed them. My local ski shop
did not have them and
the gentleman at the ski shop told me to make sure I get the bindings
integrated with the skis.

Can someone explain to me what he meant by this? He said some shops try to
sell these skis cheaper
because they lack the integrated feature.

Thanx in advance

Alan


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  #2  
Old March 5th 07, 11:55 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Marty
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Posts: 201
Default Integrated Binding Systems

On Mar 5, 5:28 pm, "Alan Fried" wrote:
I'm about to purchase a pair of Fischer AMC 76 Skis for myself and Volkl
Attiva AC2 Skis for my wife.
We know these are the right skis because we demoed them. My local ski shop
did not have them and
the gentleman at the ski shop told me to make sure I get the bindings
integrated with the skis.

Can someone explain to me what he meant by this? He said some shops try to
sell these skis cheaper
because they lack the integrated feature.

Thanx in advance

Alan


For the Fischer, the AMC comes with the Railflex system. I think the
guy meant that you may find the ski for cheap, but make sure they come
with the binding OR make sure you get the correct binding to work with
the railflex system:

Click on the railflex box (lower left) and look at all pages:

http://www.fischer-ski.com/en/techno...d_group=15600#

Not sure about the Volkl, but I'm sure it's a similar thing.
--
Marty

P.S.

Check out this place for the AMC skis ($549 with binding - so they
say):

http://www.ski-depot.com/

  #3  
Old March 6th 07, 01:38 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
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Posts: 1,188
Default Integrated Binding Systems

Marty wrote:
On Mar 5, 5:28 pm, "Alan Fried" wrote:


I'm about to purchase a pair of Fischer AMC 76 Skis for myself and Volkl
Attiva AC2 Skis for my wife.
We know these are the right skis because we demoed them. My local ski shop
did not have them and
the gentleman at the ski shop told me to make sure I get the bindings
integrated with the skis.

Can someone explain to me what he meant by this? He said some shops try to
sell these skis cheaper
because they lack the integrated feature.


For the Fischer, the AMC comes with the Railflex system. I think the
guy meant that you may find the ski for cheap, but make sure they come
with the binding OR make sure you get the correct binding to work with
the railflex system:



Until about 5 years ago, skis were "flat" - that is, they were just a
ski and you could mount any binding on the ski by drilling holes and
inserting screws. Nowadays, most skis come with an integrated binding
attachment system that is compatible only with a specific brand of
binding. This makes it easier to mount the binding, and there are some
engineering advantages to these designs. Anyway, the rub is that you'll
need to get Tyrollia bindings for the Fischer and Markers for the Volkl
- nothing else will fit. (note: I think Fischer rebrands the Tyrollia
bindings so they say Fischer, but they're the same thing)

To further complicate matters, some skis are still available in the
"flat" version. I think this is what the guy at the ski shop was
alluding to - you may come across a flat version of these skis which
will be cheaper than a pair with the integrated binding system. Look
for "Railflex" and "Motion" as the trademarked names for the integrated
binding systems.

I actually prefer the flat version to the Motion system, so I sought out
a flat version when I bought my Volkl 5 stars. But I think I'm in the
minority here. Since you undoubtedly demoed the integrated system, you
should buy the package that you demoed: Railflex for the Fischers and
Motion for the Volkls.

//Walt
  #4  
Old March 6th 07, 02:22 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
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Posts: 1,347
Default Integrated Binding Systems

Walt wrote:

I actually prefer the flat version to the Motion system, so I sought out
a flat version when I bought my Volkl 5 stars. But I think I'm in the
minority here.


Well, there's you, me, and racer dudes, for in racing it actually
matters that the binding/ski work solidly together. I think it's another
BS gimmick intended to lock people into a manufacturer's product line at
the sacrifice of performance.

I don't know why, if the European Union sued the **** out of Microsoft
for bundling media software into their "OS" locking out competitor media
players, that the European Union wouldn't sue the ski companies for
similar bundling of bindings; but they haven't. So far.
  #5  
Old March 6th 07, 04:00 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
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Posts: 1,188
Default Integrated Binding Systems

lal_truckee wrote:
Walt wrote:

I actually prefer the flat version to the Motion system, so I sought
out a flat version when I bought my Volkl 5 stars. But I think I'm in
the minority here.


Well, there's you, me, and racer dudes, for in racing it actually
matters that the binding/ski work solidly together. I think it's another
BS gimmick intended to lock people into a manufacturer's product line at
the sacrifice of performance.


There are two things going on here - 1) ease of mounting, and 2) a
technology gimmick. A manufacturer can do 1) by just predrilling the
ski - my last Dynastars were that way: an integrated carving plate with
holes drilled and tapped to mate with Look bindings, no motion rails or
whatever. This makes it substantailly easier for the shop monk^H^H^H^H
techs to slap the binding on the ski.

The technology gimmick - rails, flexy thingees, etc is an experiment
that's still playing out.

BTW, the newer Motion system is firmer and less mushy than the early
ones. I can't say I notice much of a difference now between a flat
mounted binding and one mounted on the Motion rails. I'll leave it up
to the jury to determine if this is a negative or a positive comment.


I don't know why, if the European Union sued the **** out of Microsoft
for bundling media software into their "OS" locking out competitor media
players, that the European Union wouldn't sue the ski companies for
similar bundling of bindings; but they haven't. So far.


M$ has a 90% penetration in the market, so they're subject to monopoly
regulation. Until a ski manufacturer captures 90% of the EU market they
can basically do what they want without running afoul of
anti-competitive regulations.

//Walt
 




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