Opinions - New BD Flicklock Poles

Clarifications (from personal experience):


"Booker C. Bense"
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Jan.09.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote

In my experience carbon poles do not break until they
get cut. Intact carbon shafts are nearly indestructible.

Sounds about right (from fishing and other experience).

Of course, they are right next to those sharp steel edges. I put a
foot of vinyl heat shrink tubing on the base of mine and they
have lasted longer than any pair of poles I've ever had, 6
seasons so far. I've never had a pair of aluminum poles last a
single season.

Excellent idea (I had a friend who used duct tape on his poles
and the top edges of his skis). I'm about ready to epoxy the top
edges of my skis where they have broken due to excessive wear
caused by lack of control of my sharp edges...

Where does one get the shrink tubing of that size, and how does
one put it on (over/around the baskets)?

_ Aluminum poles will break shortly after they get bent,
and they bend and break much easier than carbon.

The key is not the bend. I have a pair of bent poles that
have lasted 2 years after being bent. The key damage is a
KINK in the metal - anything unsmooth, though my wife has
a small kink that has lasted for 4 years - she doesn't use her
poles much in action.

_ The Life-Link Variants have a STEEL bottom section, so they
are effectively indestructible, if relatively heavy.

I was considering a 15 cm or so section of aluminum tubing,
probably cut out of an old pole, left floating to deflect edge damage.

_ I tour with carbon poles. IMHO, I'm much more worried about
the durablity of the adjustment mechanism, than of the carbon
shaft.

I tour with bamboo. I downhill with standard downhill poles that
are half way between proper downhill and XC length. I don't know
if they would do in the longer touring - I still haven't got my
randonee skis off the resort slopes - but they sure are a blessing on
the long traverses where I ski (Kirkwood, California).

I'm trying to get my son to take his board into the BC, and have
been trying to convince him to get a pair of snowshoes. I guess
renting is the way to go in the meantime. I need to try my current boots
on an XC trial before I do that.

Damned snow has closed the roads...

Dan

Dan

Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The
setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a strength
issue.

I realize that, when screwed together, the probe is about 7 feet long,
compared to a real probe being maybe 10 feet--I've always believed that if
the victim is that deep, over 7 feet, you are probably not going to reach
the victim anyway.

Am I missing something?

Bill Maas
----------------------
snip
_ First, probe poles are useless when it really counts, carry a
real probe.
_ Booker C. Bense

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In article ,
William Maas wrote:
Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The
setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a strength
issue.

_ It takes 15 seconds to assemble any relatively recent probe. You
can't even get one basket off that fast, plus you need to
disassemble the poles. If you can't put your probe together
drastically faster than probe poles, you should get a new probe.


I realize that, when screwed together, the probe is about 7 feet long,
compared to a real probe being maybe 10 feet--I've always believed that if
the victim is that deep, over 7 feet, you are probably not going to reach
the victim anyway.

_ That's an interesting take on savings a friend's life. The
odd's are on your side, but we are are talking about someone's
life. How would you feel when the rescuers show up and find
an ice mask on your friend's face rather than a broken back?


Am I missing something?


_ I'm not aware of any probe pole that's longer than 6 feet, in
practice that means you have a 4ft or less to comfortably work
with. Most probes are 280 or 300 cm. That gives you 6 feet of
easy used reach.

_ Lastly, it's about attitude. IMHO, if you aren't willing to
carry the piddling extra weight of a probe then you aren't
serious about saving someone's life. Personally, I think there
is far too much focus on beacons, probes and shovels, but
if you are going to trust them with your life then you should
take it seriously.

_ Booker C. Bense

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True probes are much narrow than ski poles, and don't have any obstructions
along the length. When you're probing avalanche debris that is like cement,
obstructions and width make a big difference.

Get a real probe.

Brad
P.S. The Canadian guides I've skied with laugh at those probe poles.


"Booker C. Bense"
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Jan.09.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote
in message ...
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In article ,
William Maas wrote:
Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The
setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a
strength
issue.

_ It takes 15 seconds to assemble any relatively recent probe. You
can't even get one basket off that fast, plus you need to
disassemble the poles. If you can't put your probe together
drastically faster than probe poles, you should get a new probe.


I realize that, when screwed together, the probe is about 7 feet long,
compared to a real probe being maybe 10 feet--I've always believed that if
the victim is that deep, over 7 feet, you are probably not going to reach
the victim anyway.

_ That's an interesting take on savings a friend's life. The
odd's are on your side, but we are are talking about someone's
life. How would you feel when the rescuers show up and find
an ice mask on your friend's face rather than a broken back?


Am I missing something?


_ I'm not aware of any probe pole that's longer than 6 feet, in
practice that means you have a 4ft or less to comfortably work
with. Most probes are 280 or 300 cm. That gives you 6 feet of
easy used reach.

_ Lastly, it's about attitude. IMHO, if you aren't willing to
carry the piddling extra weight of a probe then you aren't
serious about saving someone's life. Personally, I think there
is far too much focus on beacons, probes and shovels, but
if you are going to trust them with your life then you should
take it seriously.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Another reason to have a real probe is that you might well need to have
ready access to functional poles in the midst of a rescue. Say you are
probing and something happens: another slide, your buddies find a
beacon signal some distance away, etc. You will be happy to be able to
use poles w/o reassembling your poles to ski somewhere else. Having a
real probe allows you to have the best of both.
keith

William Maas wrote:
Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The
setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a strength
issue.

The setup time might be the same if you're sat in a warm room with
nothing particularly stressful happening, but time is of the essence and
your mind might possibly be a bit phased if your pal has just been
buried in front of you...
No baskets to remove, nothing to screw together, no pole locks to slip
(or if a flicklock, impede the progress of the pole/probe through snow
pack), and if you've just been avalanched having removed your straps in
case you got avalanched... a much better chance that you'll have the
probe and it won't be an, ummmm, "interesting" shape.

A proper probe is just miles better. The carbon ones weigh very little
and slide down the side of a pack easily, so there's little issue from
the packing side of it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/