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#11
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have confirmed/denied/discussed: 1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven. Wrong 2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will have the warmest glove on the market. Wrong 3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten won't be any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder about) Wrong 4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to be the warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves tested Immaterial 5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep my hands from being wet. Possible 6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant hands of ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking you guys to confirm this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a tactic to get me to buy a rather pricey pair of gloves?) A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a girl friend, IMO. Finally, I'm wondering if buying gloves is the answer at all, or if I need to keep my body warmer somehow so that it doesn't say "sayonara!" to my extremities. Thing is, if I dress any warmer than I do, I'll be sweating when I ski or am standing in line, and even with wicking fabrics throughout, that causes enough wetness to make me cold again. Especially as sports bras don't do a great job of wicking, anyway. Cold extremities make you cold, warm extremities make you warm. Keep your hands and head warm and the rest follows. Make sure you have a good, warm, windproof knit hat - go for those three adjectives before considering "style." |
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#12
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Hey LAL
I'm thinking of driving up from South Lake either Friday or Sunday to Alpine Meadows unless, of course, you think another area might be better. If there is a slim chance that we might hook up, we can email off group and set something up. VtSkier AKA RW |
#13
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On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned:
Monique Y. Mudama wrote: Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have confirmed/denied/discussed: 1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven. Wrong Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest? 2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will have the warmest glove on the market. Wrong Who does, or is the brand immaterial, in which case, how do you decide? 3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten won't be any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder about) Wrong 4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to be the warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves tested Immaterial Why is the internal temp of the glove immaterial to the question of keeping my hand warm? 5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep my hands from being wet. Possible Okay, then, what *will* keep my hands from being wet? Every glove I've ever had has been soggy after an hour or two, and it's *not* because my hands are too warm! Or is it possible to have a glove where wetness doesn't result in cold? Are the two not necessarily related? 6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant hands of ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking you guys to confirm this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a tactic to get me to buy a rather pricey pair of gloves?) A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a girl friend, IMO. Oh, I dunno, a lot of girls fall for BS ... there's also the question of intentional BS vs. just being wrong. Or, to play devil's advocate, just disagreeing with someone else =P The main reason I question his glove recommendations is because he didn't seem to be the type to have circulation issues. Finally, I'm wondering if buying gloves is the answer at all, or if I need to keep my body warmer somehow so that it doesn't say "sayonara!" to my extremities. Thing is, if I dress any warmer than I do, I'll be sweating when I ski or am standing in line, and even with wicking fabrics throughout, that causes enough wetness to make me cold again. Especially as sports bras don't do a great job of wicking, anyway. Cold extremities make you cold, warm extremities make you warm. Keep your hands and head warm and the rest follows. Make sure you have a good, warm, windproof knit hat - go for those three adjectives before considering "style." I have a helmet, so a hat isn't an option. The helmet is pretty warm, though. My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes. -- monique |
#14
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama"
wrote: On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned: Monique Y. Mudama wrote: Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have confirmed/denied/discussed: 1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven. Wrong I wonder if this guy wears a leather coat on the slopes as well. Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest? 2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will have the warmest glove on the market. Wrong Who does, or is the brand immaterial, in which case, how do you decide? Leather absorbs water and gets wet. Its a bad material for gloves, especially if you have sweaty hands. It might be usefull for racers who need the padding, or for people who use their gloves to do more than hang on to poles with. 3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten won't be any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder about) Wrong Yep. A glove has far more surface area to help cool your hand than a mitt. No matter how warm you make a glove, an equivalent mitt will be far warmer. 4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to be the warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves tested Immaterial Why is the internal temp of the glove immaterial to the question of keeping my hand warm? Mittens are warmer. I've always skied with them on cold days because I have cold hands, and have never found any glove that was as warm as a good pair of mittens. You compromise the use of your digits while in the gloves, but while skiing, you don't need them. When you do need them, extract warm fingers from mitt, and they are workable, not frozen stiff. 5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep my hands from being wet. Possible Okay, then, what *will* keep my hands from being wet? Every glove I've ever had has been soggy after an hour or two, and it's *not* because my hands are too warm! One thing that I do on extremely cold days is to wear polypropolyne liners on my hands. Extremely thin gloves that wick all the water from your fingers. They are also very nice when you remove your hand from you mittens - keeps some of the heat in. Sort of like layering for the hands. Or is it possible to have a glove where wetness doesn't result in cold? Are the two not necessarily related? 6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant hands of ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking you guys to confirm this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a tactic to get me to buy a rather pricey pair of gloves?) A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a girl friend, IMO. I agree. This guy was feeding nothing but a line of BS to sell you these gloves. I have a helmet, so a hat isn't an option. The helmet is pretty warm, though. My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes. I have the same problem, but my hands don't sweat unless I am hot, so I don't have that problem with soaked gloves. Perhaps you have hyperhidrosis? Maybe try using some anti-perspirant on your hands before a ski day and see if that does not cut down a bit on the sweating/resulting cold. A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this disorder. Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years) had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked. Go figure. On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves. http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml Other posters have their fav's. Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't. nate |
#15
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uglymoney wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama" wrote: On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned: snip My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes. I have the same problem, but my hands don't sweat unless I am hot, so I don't have that problem with soaked gloves. Perhaps you have hyperhidrosis? Maybe try using some anti-perspirant on your hands before a ski day and see if that does not cut down a bit on the sweating/resulting cold. A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this disorder. If it is that, simple asprin will help (or so claims the M.D. wife who also claims to suffer from Raynaud's) as will a shot of Irish Whiskey, your choice. Dave M. Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years) had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked. Go figure. On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves. http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml Other posters have their fav's. Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't. nate |
#16
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Dave M wrote:
uglymoney wrote: On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama" wrote: On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned: snip My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes. I have the same problem, but my hands don't sweat unless I am hot, so I don't have that problem with soaked gloves. Perhaps you have hyperhidrosis? Maybe try using some anti-perspirant on your hands before a ski day and see if that does not cut down a bit on the sweating/resulting cold. A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this disorder. If it is that, simple asprin will help (or so claims the M.D. wife who also claims to suffer from Raynaud's) as will a shot of Irish Whiskey, your choice. Wouldn't a shot of good single malt Scotch do just as well? Dave M. Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years) had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked. Go figure. On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves. http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml Other posters have their fav's. Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't. Neither can I. nate I'm a firm advocate of keeping your body core warm and you'll have warm hands. I have a pair of mid-weight BD skiing specific gloves, a pair of leather racing gloves and a pair of Extra Large thinsulate, leather and fabric, workman's gloves from the local hardware worn with a pair of fleece liners. The latter are the warmest and have the advantage of being able to keep the liners on when you remove the "shells". The latter are also NOT waterproof as the leather are pretty good and the BD's are goretex. Weather determines the gloves I wear. VtSkier |
#17
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
On 2004-12-07, lal_truckee penned: Monique Y. Mudama wrote: Anyway, the salesguy made several claims that I'd like to have confirmed/denied/discussed: 1) He claimed that leather gloves are warmer than other materials due to being less porous than fabrics, which are woven. Wrong Wrong as in, leather isn't the warmest, or wrong as in, his explanation doesn't make sense? If the former, what *is* the warmest? Leather IS porous, and breaths, so you have to wax it to waterproof it, regularly - a forgotten art - noone maintains gear anymore - they replace it. Warmth is based on design - many materials can be used equally well. So there's no "leather is best" or "cordura is best" answer. Study the design, look for layers, look for how the system is waterproofed, etc. Hands are wet from the outside (melting snow) and from the inside (sweat.) Being wet doesn't necessarily imply cold - that depends on the layering and wind protextion of the system. If you sweat alot you can try porous layers like goretex, but IMO they're not going to keep up with sweating. (BTW, I use leather gloves [with some ducttape] exclusively - as much because I'm a traditionalist as anything.) 2) He claimed that, from year to year, either Marmot or Swany will have the warmest glove on the market. Wrong Who does, or is the brand immaterial, in which case, how do you decide? Brand is immaterial, construction and design is paramount. Study the layers. 3) He claimed that, in extremely high-quality handwear, a mitten won't be any warmer than a glove (this is the one I really wonder about) Wrong What, no followup questions? 4) He claimed that this particular glove had been tested and found to be the warmest (objectively, via temperature) of all the gloves tested Immaterial Why is the internal temp of the glove immaterial to the question of keeping my hand warm? Immaterial because you don't know the test conditions nor the subject gloves - could be two pairs in summer. This kind of statement is gobbledy-gook for the unwary. 5) He claimed that the fleece liner will wick away my sweat and keep my hands from being wet. Possible Okay, then, what *will* keep my hands from being wet? Every glove I've ever had has been soggy after an hour or two, and it's *not* because my hands are too warm! The glove may leak, or you may sweat. Few ski gloves will resist being submerged in water - IMO all will leak water (even goretex/barrior gloves, since the membrane will eventually tear under the kind of use a glove is subjected to.) So keeping water off the gloves is important - and if they lose heat too easily the heat melts the snow and you've got water on, and therefore in the gloves; so you're back to studying the layers and warmth and windresistence. Or is it possible to have a glove where wetness doesn't result in cold? Are the two not necessarily related? Absolutely - in fact you put a hypothermic person in warm water to warm them up. It depends on the glove layers - you want layers that don't transfer heat wet or dry, and your hand heat will warm any water. Maybe you need multiple gloves? Change off at midday? Don't forget different weather gloves - sunny/blizzard/windy/spring all call for different characteristics. I have four pair in my locker bag, and travel with even more. 6) He said that his gf, who also has poor circulation and constant hands of ice, wears these and is happy with them. (I'm not asking you guys to confirm this, but do you think this is a) true or b) a tactic to get me to buy a rather pricey pair of gloves?) A guy with such a track record of bull**** is unlikely to even HAVE a girl friend, IMO. Oh, I dunno, a lot of girls fall for BS ... there's also the question of intentional BS vs. just being wrong. Or, to play devil's advocate, just disagreeing with someone else =P BS works even better than dandy candy or quicker liqour, IMExperience. The main reason I question his glove recommendations is because he didn't seem to be the type to have circulation issues. Recommendations are like any other info source - it's as important to know the why as the what. Why does he say what he says? I'd trust hiim more if he said "these are the qualities of the gloves we carry; if you are really cold, you might want to look at these other lines on the web or a competitor store." Finally, I'm wondering if buying gloves is the answer at all, or if I need to keep my body warmer somehow so that it doesn't say "sayonara!" to my extremities. Thing is, if I dress any warmer than I do, I'll be sweating when I ski or am standing in line, and even with wicking fabrics throughout, that causes enough wetness to make me cold again. Especially as sports bras don't do a great job of wicking, anyway. Cold extremities make you cold, warm extremities make you warm. Keep your hands and head warm and the rest follows. Make sure you have a good, warm, windproof knit hat - go for those three adjectives before considering "style." I have a helmet, so a hat isn't an option. The helmet is pretty warm, though. My helmet is very warm. What do you mean by "pretty warm?" You shouldn't lose heat through your head - it'll make your fingers and toes cold. Really! Has to do with circulation changes. My body and head are not typically cold -- it's just my fingers and toes. As a final resort you could try boot heaters - not too expensive, and some folks swear by them. |
#18
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uglymoney wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:07:42 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama" wrote: snip A lot of people with cold hands say they have Raynaud's disease. A physician who claimed to have it and who I waterskied with a bit last summer (and in the cold, cold spring weather) told me that they have a drug that works to relieve the blood restriction caused by this disorder. Oddly, this physician (a shapely female of around 30 years) had a thing for losing layers while skiing. She loves to ski naked. Go figure. I don't believe it. Got any photographic proof? On cold days I use some gloves from granite gear, reasonable, and warm as hell. I've never had cold hands with these gloves. http://www.granitegear.com/products/...ts/index.shtml Other posters have their fav's. I have some Granite Gear gloves (not sure what model - these ones: http://mattb.net/images/Monarch%2004...20on%20top.jpg) that I've been wearing for a few years and they seem to be great in terms of keeping me warm and dry. My hands usually don't sweat much, but they do get cold. I usually pull my fingers out and make fists to warm them up on the lift if they do and that enough on all but the coldest days. Also avoid caffeine if you can. I can't. nate Matt PS Hi Monique! |
#19
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AstroPax wrote:
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:22:41 -0600, "Monique Y. Mudama" wrote: Um, my sports bras aren't cotton. They're a synth material, although the label's been washed too many times to read clearly. Just out of curiosity, theoretically, if you could actually read those un-readable and faded labels, what would the size be? -Astro For some reason the image of that old Lange "Keep your tips up!" poster just popped into my mind. Just thought I'd share that image if you remember it. Matt |
#20
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VtSkier wrote:
Hey LAL I'm thinking of driving up from South Lake either Friday or Sunday to Alpine Meadows unless, of course, you think another area might be better. If there is a slim chance that we might hook up, we can email off group and set something up. I'm takng care of busines in San Francisco currently - don't know if I'll be finished by Friday or even Sunday. But it's a good idea - I'll try and get back to you. |
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