Scoot's Groups Dynamics Post

Talk about obsessing:

I¹ve been very troubled for the last year by some of the group
dynamics
on rsa, especially by the shadow side of the Invader phenomenom and how

it relates to me, so I¹m going to take some time to explain what I¹ve

perceived and why I am choosing to refuse to participate as I have the
past two years.
On the positive side, the development of community has been phenomenal,

and I think it is great that people from around the world are
connecting, having fun, building a network, and doing some great
skiing.
I like most of the people I have met at invasions the past two years,
and I certainly don¹t intend my critique to include the vast majority
of
Invaders. Most of the dynamic is overwhelming to the good, and I¹ve
supported this development.
But there is also a shadow side to the Invaders, aspects that are not
positive, and as much of that shadow revolves around control, power,
and
manipulation. For once, I¹m not going to point fingers, as these
people
know who they are and anyone who has watched the sublety of how this
works knows.
Most groups need outsiders to pit themselves against, most groups
demand
loyalty and acknowledgement, an d the Invader core is no different.
I¹ve watched the regulars who ain¹t particularily fond of certain
Invaders or who aren¹t impressed by their intelligence, wit, or
knowledge of the sport decide to withold their affiliation, though they

might ski with the group or party with the group if it is convenient.
I
don¹t think it is any coincidence that Bob Lee and klaus are
frequently
at odds with the Invader core, as I am.
It is not that Bob and klaus oppose everybody getting together, it is
that they are independent cusses who offer allegiance to nothing and no

one...which is, in my humble opinion, and indication of character,
discrimination, and intelligence.
I also don¹t think it is any coincidence that they are extraordinarily

knowledgeable about skiing and they don¹t suffer fools gladly.
The problem arises with the Invader core group demanding loyalty to
this
emergin phenomena, especially to how the Invader core uses the
newsgroup. As the pinnas (and others) have justifiably gotten some
giggles at some of the more inane and useless posts, they have also
been
attacked by the Invader core in email and private conversation. I¹ve
witnessed the Invader core indulge in outright character assasination
and slander that is truly unfair and undeserved, and I think that they
would not be so criticized if they pledged allegiance to the group.
Much of this goes on in private email where it cannot be exposed.
I don¹t like this kind of small-minded group-think, but I kept my
mouth
somewhat shut, figuring I might be able to convince the Invader core
that they were doing things that were directly opposed to their
conscious purpose of building community.
I¹ve also been very troubled by the dynamic of competition set up by
the
Invader core, especially as it relates my own perceived position as a
³leader² of rsa.
With several of the core Invaders, I¹ve noticed a disturbing tendency
to
attack and demean both me personally and what I have done for the
group.
Such disparagement of my motives and such distortion of my actions has
truly hurt me, and leads me to write today. I don¹t see any point in
continuing to attempt to reason with the Invader core that is driven to

tear down those who don¹t agree with their perceptions of themselves,
nor do I see any point in going out of my way to benefit people who
unnecessarily bite the hand that has fed them (though they don¹t seem
to
have any compunctions about enjoying the benefits of the Buddha¹s
position).
I¹ve never had any ambition to lead anything or anyone (except to lead

Buttdawg to a fence or klaus over a cliff). I know damn well that
I¹ve
served as a catalyst here, but it happened mostly by accident, and I
certainly do not perceive myself as a leader of any faction other than
the Holy Church of Vail, which basically consists of me and anybody who

likes my act at the moment.
But the reality is that I know a lot of people who hang here, and I
have
a high profile, and this shtick has turned out to be quite profitable
for both me and my friends in terms of being able to get some goodies
out of the ski industry.
I¹ve never demanded loyalty to my point of view, my person, or any
group
as a price of my friendship....indeed, some of the people I like most
are those who screw with me the most. I certainly do not demand that
any of my friends refrain from criticizing me when I get out of line,
or
define loyalty as refraining from such criticism and attacking those
who
disagree with me. Nor do I limit access to the goodies I¹ve been
able
to generate to people who blindly belong to the HCOV.
This gig has become something far beyond anything I ever conceived, and

I certainly havn¹t planned any of this. Yet I find myself in a
position
where I am ³in² the industry, and I can use my contacts and access to

benefit myself and others.
I¹m going to give these dumb****s a clue (didn¹t want y¹all thinking
I¹d
lost my mind).
I have been the recipient of extraordinary generosity on the part of
many rsa regulars.
People like Terry and Mary, Mike and Julie, klaus, Andrew, Tabi, Bob
Lee
and many others have had me as a guest in their homes, skied with me,
fed me, listened to me bitch about Lurleen, etc. I consider them to be

dear friends, and I also accept a responsibility of karma: they have
shared from their cornucopia, and when I get goodies, it is incumbent
on
me to also act with comparable class. Even though there has been very
little I could do for those who have been so generous to me, there HAS
been things I could do for the community. I pass it on.
That is the ONLY reason I have for trying to scam goodies for the
newsgroup as a whole. Old fashioned altruism. Doing for others what
has been done for me. I get a real kick out of scamming freebies for
my
friends, and I am fascinated by the culture of the internet and how it
can be used to cut the cost of skiing for all of us.
It has really hurt my feelings to see how the Invader core has worked
behind the scenes to belittle my efforts and to slander my character.

Gossipy slams keep getting back to me, and I¹ve watched my motives and

efforts twisted beyond recognition.
I don¹t need this ****.
Clue time, guys.
The bottom line is that I can get all of the freebies I get without
ever
mentioning rsa.
I don¹t need you to take care of myself, and I don¹t need you to get
in
the door anywhere, anymore.
Just to blow my own horn, I¹ve scammed literally thousands of dollars
of
lift tickets this year for rsa members. Several regulars are skiing on

boards they either got free or at cost due to my OLIN connection. Not
to mention dropping a hundred bucks myself (and Lurleen was classy
enough to pop four bottles of good wine) feeding the crew in Utah. Not

to mention forty bucks in long distance calls in a failed attempt
arrange lodging and lift discounts in Whistler (and by the way, I NEVER

asked for anything for myself from Whistler, because I thought it might

detract from the presentation on behalf of the group, Indeed, the day
after I met with Whistler management, I PAID for my skiing). Not to
mention going two hundred miles out of my way to meet with those people

in the first .
Not to mention the hours I¹ve spent hustling mountain managers for
tickets for the group when I could have just walked out with MY tickets

in hand after five minutes.
Not to mention the hours I¹ve spent vetting and arranging tickets for
regulars, making sure that this scam can perpetuate itself.
Not to mention hauling 12 pairs of skis up to Whistler, which I did NOT

have to do, in any way, to maintain my K2 and OLIN connection. Not to
mention the extra trip to Vashon to get the skis. Not to mention that
I
could have sold my skis easier and for more money if I had put them up
for sale in Febuary instead of the middle of March.
Not to mention the ski time I lost at Whistler arranging a space for
the
party, and hustling free food and booze. I will remind y¹all that
while I certainly eat, I don¹t drink.
Hell, I¹ve even heard that I sucked as a ski leader when playing local

at Whistler.
Not to mention that I wasted a hell of a lot of time waiting on
crapbugger**** skiers when I could have been skiing.
In short, I¹ve gone way the **** out of my way at my own personal
expense wasting my own time for some people who havn¹t got the grace
God
gave a snowboarder.
I¹ve been accused of self-aggrandizement, of runaway egotism, of
greed,
of exploiting rsa for my own profit. Everything I¹ve done has been
demeaned and belittled by some people in the Invader core group, mostly

because they are such self-centered jerks they can¹t believe anyone
else
might not be as manipulative as they are.
Normal group dynamics. Trash anyone who has the power to oppose you,
who you exploit, who does not adhere to the group conscience because he

has his own, and who doesn¹t the game.
I¹m tired of this ****.
Yeah, yeah, it would be nice if a few folks gave me a HCOV butt hickey
as thanks for what I did for them. But that is not the point: many
invaders were as gracious as anyone could expect, and I trust they know

who they are and will not be offended by this post.
I¹m tired of the backstabbing assholes who are so small in spirit they

must see evil and meanness where none exists. I¹m tired of getting
trashed by cowards who won¹t bring their bull**** to the newsgroup but

who do their damage behind the scenes. I¹m tired of people who only
see
the world and this newsgroup from a narcissitic viewpoint. And I
don¹t
see any reason to do anything for such people.
Clue time again.
I don¹t see any point in doing favors for ungrateful jerks who turn
around and slander me, and who lack the class to understand that there
is such a thing as altruism.
So they can blow me.
I quit.
I¹m going to take care of my friends as best I can, but from here on
out, anything I do for the group will be filtered through my own
opinion
of what is best for the group...and anybody who I judge to be a
negative
influence ain¹t gonna be on my gravy train.
Why should I spend my time, effort, money, and shmoozing ability for
someone who is just going to take the goodies and then trash my
motivations?
Has nothing to do with loyalty, agreeing with me, or prostrating
yourself in worship of the Prophet of the Holy Church of Vail (though
doing so will certainly effect whether I put you on the goodie list).
Has to do with class, with what I think is best for the group, and with

whom I want to associate and bless with my favors.
I won¹t even go into the people who misused my efforts, abused my
generosity and ripped me and rsa off: that will come out in time.
Clue time, backstabbers.
I just might show for the next invasion, depending on where it is and
who is going there. But I won¹t do a damn thing to help anyone I
figure
is part of this scumbag club.
Let me give you an idea of what you¹ve managed to screw up for
everyone
else with your lack of class.
When the Invasion was originally planned for Tahoe, I got on the phone
and arranged free ski days at two separate resorts for everyone.
Literally thousands of dollars of lift tickets, with possibly more to
come.
Do you think I¹m going to waste my time and my money again like that,
when my efforts are so misunderstood?
Damn right I will....for my friends and for people I respect, and those

I don¹t happen to approve of can blow me and pay their own way.
There is only one way to convince some of y¹all that I don¹t give a
flying if I am viewed as a leader or not, and that is to drag the
machinations of manipulative people right out in the open....and then
walk away from the group.
To hell with this experiment. I was planning on writing a proposal
that
EVERYONE could use in attempting to con freebies from mountains and
gear
makers. I ain¹t gonna waste my time. I had plans to send those
proposals around to various mountains where I have connections, and
I¹m
not going to bother, because I can get MINE without doing so: I don¹t

need rsa or these dweebs.
If I can take care of my REAL friends, I¹ll certainly go out of my
way,
but I ain¹t gonna do so for the group anymore without being very picky

about who I hook up. Horvath was about the only person on my ****
list,
but now he¹s got company.
Enough.
As you might suspect, I¹m still angry, but mostly, my iddy biddy
feelings are hurt. I¹ve pondered this post for a long time, and in
the
end, I¹m doing what I always do: what I feel is right and to hell with

whether anybody likes it or not, or whether anybody follows me.
I think that the shadow of the group needs confrontation, especially
the
less savory aspects of the Invader dynamic, and I¹m going to continue
pointing out people and actions that serve individuals rather than the
community.
Scott

GREAT! I don't even have to write the wretched history of rsa again, this
freak actually thinks he's exposing me.

I see ****. I see maggots. I see the dregs of humanity, freaks without any
worth or character, scum without any balls or manhood.

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"clarencedarrow" wrote in message
oups.com...
Talk about obsessing:

I¹ve been very troubled for the last year by some of the group
dynamics
on rsa, especially by the shadow side of the Invader phenomenom and how

it relates to me, so I¹m going to take some time to explain what I¹ve

perceived and why I am choosing to refuse to participate as I have the
past two years.
On the positive side, the development of community has been phenomenal,

and I think it is great that people from around the world are
connecting, having fun, building a network, and doing some great
skiing.
I like most of the people I have met at invasions the past two years,
and I certainly don¹t intend my critique to include the vast majority
of
Invaders. Most of the dynamic is overwhelming to the good, and I¹ve
supported this development.
But there is also a shadow side to the Invaders, aspects that are not
positive, and as much of that shadow revolves around control, power,
and
manipulation. For once, I¹m not going to point fingers, as these
people
know who they are and anyone who has watched the sublety of how this
works knows.
Most groups need outsiders to pit themselves against, most groups
demand
loyalty and acknowledgement, an d the Invader core is no different.
I¹ve watched the regulars who ain¹t particularily fond of certain
Invaders or who aren¹t impressed by their intelligence, wit, or
knowledge of the sport decide to withold their affiliation, though they

might ski with the group or party with the group if it is convenient.
I
don¹t think it is any coincidence that Bob Lee and klaus are
frequently
at odds with the Invader core, as I am.
It is not that Bob and klaus oppose everybody getting together, it is
that they are independent cusses who offer allegiance to nothing and no

one...which is, in my humble opinion, and indication of character,
discrimination, and intelligence.
I also don¹t think it is any coincidence that they are extraordinarily

knowledgeable about skiing and they don¹t suffer fools gladly.
The problem arises with the Invader core group demanding loyalty to
this
emergin phenomena, especially to how the Invader core uses the
newsgroup. As the pinnas (and others) have justifiably gotten some
giggles at some of the more inane and useless posts, they have also
been
attacked by the Invader core in email and private conversation. I¹ve
witnessed the Invader core indulge in outright character assasination
and slander that is truly unfair and undeserved, and I think that they
would not be so criticized if they pledged allegiance to the group.
Much of this goes on in private email where it cannot be exposed.
I don¹t like this kind of small-minded group-think, but I kept my
mouth
somewhat shut, figuring I might be able to convince the Invader core
that they were doing things that were directly opposed to their
conscious purpose of building community.
I¹ve also been very troubled by the dynamic of competition set up by
the
Invader core, especially as it relates my own perceived position as a
³leader² of rsa.
With several of the core Invaders, I¹ve noticed a disturbing tendency
to
attack and demean both me personally and what I have done for the
group.
Such disparagement of my motives and such distortion of my actions has
truly hurt me, and leads me to write today. I don¹t see any point in
continuing to attempt to reason with the Invader core that is driven to

tear down those who don¹t agree with their perceptions of themselves,
nor do I see any point in going out of my way to benefit people who
unnecessarily bite the hand that has fed them (though they don¹t seem
to
have any compunctions about enjoying the benefits of the Buddha¹s
position).
I¹ve never had any ambition to lead anything or anyone (except to lead

Buttdawg to a fence or klaus over a cliff). I know damn well that
I¹ve
served as a catalyst here, but it happened mostly by accident, and I
certainly do not perceive myself as a leader of any faction other than
the Holy Church of Vail, which basically consists of me and anybody who

likes my act at the moment.
But the reality is that I know a lot of people who hang here, and I
have
a high profile, and this shtick has turned out to be quite profitable
for both me and my friends in terms of being able to get some goodies
out of the ski industry.
I¹ve never demanded loyalty to my point of view, my person, or any
group
as a price of my friendship....indeed, some of the people I like most
are those who screw with me the most. I certainly do not demand that
any of my friends refrain from criticizing me when I get out of line,
or
define loyalty as refraining from such criticism and attacking those
who
disagree with me. Nor do I limit access to the goodies I¹ve been
able
to generate to people who blindly belong to the HCOV.
This gig has become something far beyond anything I ever conceived, and

I certainly havn¹t planned any of this. Yet I find myself in a
position
where I am ³in² the industry, and I can use my contacts and access to

benefit myself and others.
I¹m going to give these dumb****s a clue (didn¹t want y¹all thinking
I¹d
lost my mind).
I have been the recipient of extraordinary generosity on the part of
many rsa regulars.
People like Terry and Mary, Mike and Julie, klaus, Andrew, Tabi, Bob
Lee
and many others have had me as a guest in their homes, skied with me,
fed me, listened to me bitch about Lurleen, etc. I consider them to be

dear friends, and I also accept a responsibility of karma: they have
shared from their cornucopia, and when I get goodies, it is incumbent
on
me to also act with comparable class. Even though there has been very
little I could do for those who have been so generous to me, there HAS
been things I could do for the community. I pass it on.
That is the ONLY reason I have for trying to scam goodies for the
newsgroup as a whole. Old fashioned altruism. Doing for others what
has been done for me. I get a real kick out of scamming freebies for
my
friends, and I am fascinated by the culture of the internet and how it
can be used to cut the cost of skiing for all of us.
It has really hurt my feelings to see how the Invader core has worked
behind the scenes to belittle my efforts and to slander my character.

Gossipy slams keep getting back to me, and I¹ve watched my motives and

efforts twisted beyond recognition.
I don¹t need this ****.
Clue time, guys.
The bottom line is that I can get all of the freebies I get without
ever
mentioning rsa.
I don¹t need you to take care of myself, and I don¹t need you to get
in
the door anywhere, anymore.
Just to blow my own horn, I¹ve scammed literally thousands of dollars
of
lift tickets this year for rsa members. Several regulars are skiing on

boards they either got free or at cost due to my OLIN connection. Not
to mention dropping a hundred bucks myself (and Lurleen was classy
enough to pop four bottles of good wine) feeding the crew in Utah. Not

to mention forty bucks in long distance calls in a failed attempt
arrange lodging and lift discounts in Whistler (and by the way, I NEVER

asked for anything for myself from Whistler, because I thought it might

detract from the presentation on behalf of the group, Indeed, the day
after I met with Whistler management, I PAID for my skiing). Not to
mention going two hundred miles out of my way to meet with those people

in the first .
Not to mention the hours I¹ve spent hustling mountain managers for
tickets for the group when I could have just walked out with MY tickets

in hand after five minutes.
Not to mention the hours I¹ve spent vetting and arranging tickets for
regulars, making sure that this scam can perpetuate itself.
Not to mention hauling 12 pairs of skis up to Whistler, which I did NOT

have to do, in any way, to maintain my K2 and OLIN connection. Not to
mention the extra trip to Vashon to get the skis. Not to mention that
I
could have sold my skis easier and for more money if I had put them up
for sale in Febuary instead of the middle of March.
Not to mention the ski time I lost at Whistler arranging a space for
the
party, and hustling free food and booze. I will remind y¹all that
while I certainly eat, I don¹t drink.
Hell, I¹ve even heard that I sucked as a ski leader when playing local

at Whistler.
Not to mention that I wasted a hell of a lot of time waiting on
crapbugger**** skiers when I could have been skiing.
In short, I¹ve gone way the **** out of my way at my own personal
expense wasting my own time for some people who havn¹t got the grace
God
gave a snowboarder.
I¹ve been accused of self-aggrandizement, of runaway egotism, of
greed,
of exploiting rsa for my own profit. Everything I¹ve done has been
demeaned and belittled by some people in the Invader core group, mostly

because they are such self-centered jerks they can¹t believe anyone
else
might not be as manipulative as they are.
Normal group dynamics. Trash anyone who has the power to oppose you,
who you exploit, who does not adhere to the group conscience because he

has his own, and who doesn¹t the game.
I¹m tired of this ****.
Yeah, yeah, it would be nice if a few folks gave me a HCOV butt hickey
as thanks for what I did for them. But that is not the point: many
invaders were as gracious as anyone could expect, and I trust they know

who they are and will not be offended by this post.
I¹m tired of the backstabbing assholes who are so small in spirit they

must see evil and meanness where none exists. I¹m tired of getting
trashed by cowards who won¹t bring their bull**** to the newsgroup but

who do their damage behind the scenes. I¹m tired of people who only
see
the world and this newsgroup from a narcissitic viewpoint. And I
don¹t
see any reason to do anything for such people.
Clue time again.
I don¹t see any point in doing favors for ungrateful jerks who turn
around and slander me, and who lack the class to understand that there
is such a thing as altruism.
So they can blow me.
I quit.
I¹m going to take care of my friends as best I can, but from here on
out, anything I do for the group will be filtered through my own
opinion
of what is best for the group...and anybody who I judge to be a
negative
influence ain¹t gonna be on my gravy train.
Why should I spend my time, effort, money, and shmoozing ability for
someone who is just going to take the goodies and then trash my
motivations?
Has nothing to do with loyalty, agreeing with me, or prostrating
yourself in worship of the Prophet of the Holy Church of Vail (though
doing so will certainly effect whether I put you on the goodie list).
Has to do with class, with what I think is best for the group, and with

whom I want to associate and bless with my favors.
I won¹t even go into the people who misused my efforts, abused my
generosity and ripped me and rsa off: that will come out in time.
Clue time, backstabbers.
I just might show for the next invasion, depending on where it is and
who is going there. But I won¹t do a damn thing to help anyone I
figure
is part of this scumbag club.
Let me give you an idea of what you¹ve managed to screw up for
everyone
else with your lack of class.
When the Invasion was originally planned for Tahoe, I got on the phone
and arranged free ski days at two separate resorts for everyone.
Literally thousands of dollars of lift tickets, with possibly more to
come.
Do you think I¹m going to waste my time and my money again like that,
when my efforts are so misunderstood?
Damn right I will....for my friends and for people I respect, and those

I don¹t happen to approve of can blow me and pay their own way.
There is only one way to convince some of y¹all that I don¹t give a
flying if I am viewed as a leader or not, and that is to drag the
machinations of manipulative people right out in the open....and then
walk away from the group.
To hell with this experiment. I was planning on writing a proposal
that
EVERYONE could use in attempting to con freebies from mountains and
gear
makers. I ain¹t gonna waste my time. I had plans to send those
proposals around to various mountains where I have connections, and
I¹m
not going to bother, because I can get MINE without doing so: I don¹t

need rsa or these dweebs.
If I can take care of my REAL friends, I¹ll certainly go out of my
way,
but I ain¹t gonna do so for the group anymore without being very picky

about who I hook up. Horvath was about the only person on my ****
list,
but now he¹s got company.
Enough.
As you might suspect, I¹m still angry, but mostly, my iddy biddy
feelings are hurt. I¹ve pondered this post for a long time, and in
the
end, I¹m doing what I always do: what I feel is right and to hell with

whether anybody likes it or not, or whether anybody follows me.
I think that the shadow of the group needs confrontation, especially
the
less savory aspects of the Invader dynamic, and I¹m going to continue
pointing out people and actions that serve individuals rather than the
community.
Scott




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