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Can June Mt survive anothe season?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 7th 14, 02:20 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

This has been a recurring question for decades, but things looked brightest after 1986 when Dave McCoy bought June more or less out of bankruptcy, and boosted June-specific income by improving customer service and upgrading trail and lift facilities, while maintaining most of June's distinctive flavor. The best years were probably in the late 90's, after a unique tramway lift (Yan QMC) was installed from the parking base to the main chalet, 1000 feet above the best steep expert terrain on the mountain, combined with the fact that Mammoth still did not permit snowboards, and June welcomed them..

Then the QMC became unusable after the Yan lift disasters and subsequent bankruptcy, snowboards were allowed at Mammoth without restriction, and the recession piled onto bad snow years. When MMSA went public by a heavily-indebted buyout, the annual income became critical, and the weak snow/income 2011-12 year drove MMSA to suspend June's operation for the 2012-13 season to please creditors.

This year June re-opened, but unfortunately there was another weak snow season. The linked graphs show the June and June-Mammoth combined skier-day and income numbers through mid-April, which was when June closed for the season.

http://monocounty.ca.gov/sites/defau...04-13-2014.pdf

Will this weak financial year force MMSA to close June again creditors? The Forest Service statened last year that not operating June was a violation of the Forest Service permit, and they would declare the permit in default and offer it to other potential operators if MMSA does not keep June open.

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  #2  
Old July 7th 14, 03:07 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
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Posts: 1,348
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On 7/6/14 7:20 PM, Richard Henry wrote:
http://monocounty.ca.gov/sites/defau...04-13-2014.pdf

I wonder how they'd be doing if they were still a ski mountain instead
of a real estate debt servicing operation.
As the biggest of the town of Los Angeles' local ski hills they did well
for decades. It wasn't til they went corporate bananas chasing the MBA
will-o-the-wisp that they fell on hard times. Unfortunately their
attitude invested the whole town and dragged it into the pit.

I recommend Hal Clifford's book Downhill Slide: Why the Corporate Ski
Industry is Bad for Skiing, Ski Towns, and the Environment
  #3  
Old July 7th 14, 01:42 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
pigo[_2_]
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Posts: 2,376
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On Sunday, July 6, 2014 9:46:29 PM UTC-6, Richard Henry wrote:

McCoy built Mammoth on sweat equity, local bank loans, and flexible financing from lift manufacturers. What I always saw as symbolic of the Intrawest corruption was when the MBAs starting renaming the lifts, so Chair 3 became Face Lift Express. Some of us old farts stick with tradition - Gold Rush Express is till Chair 10 to me, even though it is a different lift, starting lower and ending higher than the classic Chair 10.


I don't know if you guys have been following park ****ty's tribulations lately. They didn't renew their lease. A sweetheart deal. And then did something like forge a renewal agreement and got caught? I don't remember exactly. What it boils down to is that they seem to be on the verge of being evicted from most of the property outside the base area.

Bwaaaahahahahaha.....that cracks me up.

  #4  
Old July 7th 14, 03:48 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Alan Baker
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Posts: 3,864
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On 2014-07-07 02:20:16 +0000, Richard Henry said:

This has been a recurring question for decades, but things looked
brightest after 1986 when Dave McCoy bought June more or less out of
bankruptcy, and boosted June-specific income by improving customer
service and upgrading trail and lift facilities, while maintaining most
of June's distinctive flavor. The best years were probably in the late
90's, after a unique tramway lift (Yan QMC) was installed from the
parking base to the main chalet, 1000 feet above the best steep expert
terrain on the mountain, combined with the fact that Mammoth still did
not permit snowboards, and June welcomed them.

Then the QMC became unusable after the Yan lift disasters and
subsequent bankruptcy, snowboards were allowed at Mammoth without
restriction, and the recession piled onto bad snow years. When MMSA
went public by a heavily-indebted buyout, the annual income became
critical, and the weak snow/income 2011-12 year drove MMSA to suspend
June's operation for the 2012-13 season to please creditors.

This year June re-opened, but unfortunately there was another weak snow
season. The linked graphs show the June and June-Mammoth combined
skier-day and income numbers through mid-April, which was when June
closed for the season.

http://monocounty.ca.gov/sites/defau...04-13-2014.pdf


Will this weak financial year force MMSA to close June again creditors?
The Forest Service statened last year that not operating June was a
violation of the Forest Service permit, and they would declare the
permit in default and offer it to other potential operators if MMSA
does not keep June open.


I'm just hoping...

....purely for nostalgic reasons...

....that Talisman "Mountain" repopens:

http://www.thestar.com/business/real_estate/2014/05/13/bankrupt_talisman_ski_resort_to_become_hotel_and_s pa.html


That's where I learned to ski.

:-)

  #5  
Old July 7th 14, 04:04 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On Monday, July 7, 2014 6:42:48 AM UTC-7, pigo wrote:
On Sunday, July 6, 2014 9:46:29 PM UTC-6, Richard Henry wrote:



McCoy built Mammoth on sweat equity, local bank loans, and flexible financing from lift manufacturers. What I always saw as symbolic of the Intrawest corruption was when the MBAs starting renaming the lifts, so Chair 3 became Face Lift Express. Some of us old farts stick with tradition - Gold Rush Express is till Chair 10 to me, even though it is a different lift, starting lower and ending higher than the classic Chair 10.




I don't know if you guys have been following park ****ty's tribulations lately. They didn't renew their lease. A sweetheart deal. And then did something like forge a renewal agreement and got caught? I don't remember exactly. What it boils down to is that they seem to be on the verge of being evicted from most of the property outside the base area.



Bwaaaahahahahaha.....that cracks me up.


I just saw a news report about that last week. It looks like while the rich men argue about who owns what, the skiers will be kept off the mountain. Or maybe they will require everyone to buy two lift tickets.
  #6  
Old July 7th 14, 04:17 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On Monday, July 7, 2014 8:48:51 AM UTC-7, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2014-07-07 02:20:16 +0000, Richard Henry said:



This has been a recurring question for decades, but things looked


brightest after 1986 when Dave McCoy bought June more or less out of


bankruptcy, and boosted June-specific income by improving customer


service and upgrading trail and lift facilities, while maintaining most


of June's distinctive flavor. The best years were probably in the late


90's, after a unique tramway lift (Yan QMC) was installed from the


parking base to the main chalet, 1000 feet above the best steep expert


terrain on the mountain, combined with the fact that Mammoth still did


not permit snowboards, and June welcomed them.




Then the QMC became unusable after the Yan lift disasters and


subsequent bankruptcy, snowboards were allowed at Mammoth without


restriction, and the recession piled onto bad snow years. When MMSA


went public by a heavily-indebted buyout, the annual income became


critical, and the weak snow/income 2011-12 year drove MMSA to suspend


June's operation for the 2012-13 season to please creditors.




This year June re-opened, but unfortunately there was another weak snow


season. The linked graphs show the June and June-Mammoth combined


skier-day and income numbers through mid-April, which was when June


closed for the season.




http://monocounty.ca.gov/sites/defau...04-13-2014.pdf






Will this weak financial year force MMSA to close June again creditors?


The Forest Service statened last year that not operating June was a


violation of the Forest Service permit, and they would declare the


permit in default and offer it to other potential operators if MMSA


does not keep June open.




I'm just hoping...



...purely for nostalgic reasons...



...that Talisman "Mountain" repopens:



http://www.thestar.com/business/real_estate/2014/05/13/bankrupt_talisman_ski_resort_to_become_hotel_and_s pa.html





That's where I learned to ski.



:-)


It's fate, really. After driving 5 to 7 hours to get to Mammoth, few want to drive another hour to ski an inferior resort. In my personal experience skiing there, the big benefits of June over Mammoth were smaller crowds on Saturdays, $10 Wednesdays, the QMC (when it was running), and cheaper (but older) hotels.

Now if the June Lake Valley had been located an hour south of Mammoth, up in the ridge west of Bishop, Mammoth might be the little brother of the pair..
  #7  
Old July 7th 14, 04:47 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
pigo[_2_]
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Posts: 2,376
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On Monday, July 7, 2014 10:04:35 AM UTC-6, Richard Henry wrote:

I just saw a news report about that last week. It looks like while the rich men argue about who owns what, the skiers will be kept off the mountain.. Or maybe they will require everyone to buy two lift tickets.


Like it or not, big business is run by companies that rely on contracts and law to set guidelines for operation and profit. pcmr just plain ****ed up AND tried to manipulate a situation that was already far in their favor. What would you have Talisker do? Who the **** cares about pcmr anyway? It's snobored hell. Deer Valley will continue to be the best _ski area_ in the country and has access to all that terrain. Let's just hope that they can keep a portion of it boredfree.
  #8  
Old July 7th 14, 05:31 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
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Posts: 1,348
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On 7/7/14 9:47 AM, pigo wrote:

Deer Valley will continue to be the best_ski area_ in the country


I KNEW you had a sense of humor...
  #9  
Old July 7th 14, 07:49 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On Monday, July 7, 2014 9:47:30 AM UTC-7, pigo wrote:
On Monday, July 7, 2014 10:04:35 AM UTC-6, Richard Henry wrote:



I just saw a news report about that last week. It looks like while the rich men argue about who owns what, the skiers will be kept off the mountain. Or maybe they will require everyone to buy two lift tickets.




Like it or not, big business is run by companies that rely on contracts and law to set guidelines for operation and profit. pcmr just plain ****ed up AND tried to manipulate a situation that was already far in their favor. What would you have Talisker do? Who the **** cares about pcmr anyway? It's snobored hell. Deer Valley will continue to be the best _ski area_ in the country and has access to all that terrain. Let's just hope that they can keep a portion of it boredfree.


I understand that PCMR screwed up by not renewing their lease on time. I also am not surprised that it took over three years to get a final eviction notice signed (and I wonder how that will be enforced). I am just hoping that some compromise comes about so that the resort continues to operate, even if the existing lifts have to cross a sort of DMZ between the two properties that now exist.

Would we have PCMR employees loading at the bottom, and Vail/Canyons employees unloading at the top? Will there be a protocol for handing off rescue toboggans at the boundary (or worse, would the rescuee have to change toboggans?)?

The world wonders.
  #10  
Old July 7th 14, 08:40 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
pigo[_2_]
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Posts: 2,376
Default Can June Mt survive anothe season?

On Monday, July 7, 2014 11:31:03 AM UTC-6, lal_truckee wrote:
On 7/7/14 9:47 AM, pigo wrote:
Deer Valley will continue to be the best_ski area_ in the country

I KNEW you had a sense of humor...


How many times have you skied it? You apparently know it well.

 




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