Ski Trab evaluation

Joe Gollinger asked me to evaluate a pair of the Ski Trab top-level skate
skis that he's distributing. I'm happy to evaluate anything anybody sends
me - provided I've got the time. Christmas turned out to be an ideal time.
Here are my impressions:

Note: my expectations were not high. I think I was envisioning something
like those Plenks that were floating around when I was in High School. I was
quite pleasantly surprised.

Out of the box I thought the skis felt pretty light and looked well
put-together. At a glance the workmanship and materials appear consistent
with the more established names. I didn't put them on a scale, but still
could do that...

Next step was the flex tester. The skis matched each-other exceptionally
well. It is extremely uncommon to find skis matched to within a couple of
tenths of a kg closing flex - especially skate skis - but that's what these
are like, both in terms of closing flex and half/full weight camber heights.
In terms of pressure distribution and tip characteristics the skis take
something of a middle ground compared to much of what is out there. A high
resting camber is suggestive of a Rossignol - but the tip pressure is
lighter and more progressive than most Rossis. The forebody "hotspot" - the
area that bears the greatest portion of the load in front of the binding -
is relatively short. About 15cm - about in line with what you'll find on
most Skatecuts or RS:11s. But the tip pressure is greater than what is
typical in those Austrian skis.

The skis worked up well on the grinder. The first pass showed that the base
wasn't 100% flat. there was a slightly convex section under the mid-body of
the ski. The factory structure was clean but not particularly useful from my
point of view. Somewhat similar to what's showing up on most of the new
Rossis these days. Anyway, the base material took a grind well - I put on a
somewhat experimental Z30.8 which I'll be testing on my test fleet up at
Nationals next week.

Post grind I was in a hurry to get on the snow, so I put on one quick layer
of Star uniblock Red - ironed from tip to tail twice. I've skied four days
without rewaxing with no significant drying or whitening of the base.

On to the important stuff - on snow performance. Again, my expectations were
low, and I was pleasantly surprised. The conditions have been interesting -
pretty dry snowpack with very warm daytime temps. the snow stays really
sugary - except where it packs into boiler-plate. there has been a ton of
traffic on the trails at Grafton where I've been skiing, so the soft and
hard extremes are more extreme than they might otherwise be. I feel that the
tips plow a bit in the soft snow. The ski is stable and smooth climbing, but
if you encounter anything other than good firm track they tend to bog down.
This is always a concern for me with a moderate to stiff tip. On the really
hard stuff the skis are a bit squirrely - but that may have a lot to do with
conditions. The speed is quite good - especially at half-weight. But that
might also be because my new grind kicks butt!

These are good ski. The ones I'm on aren't world-class skis. I'd be
interested to see a pair with lighter tip pressure and somewhat stiffer
closing flex. The ones I've got close at 70kg and I'm only about 66kg, but
my feeling is that this ski can be fit closer to 115% than 100%. The forward
hot-spot is progessive (it moves back toward the middle of the ski as the
load increases) but not dramatically so, and it's situated fairly far back
on the body of the ski. So - a slightly higher flex coupled with a softer
tip could help move this thing into the "really good" category. Joe has
mentioned that there is another lay-up available with different tip
composition and he's going to get me some more information on that.

Bottom line - as I told Joe, these skis belong on the same rack as the top
of the line skis from other companies. They're not any better than what's
already out there, but they're certainly not a second-tier or step-down ski.
Also, people who aren't accustomed to hand-picked skis would probably notice
fewer deficiencies than I might.

I'm not sure who retails these things but Joe Gollinger is the guy to talk
to about them. He's already posted something here so you can probably dig
him up!

Zach

Thanks for the report, Zach! Lots of interesting details. It's great to see a
REAL ski report for a change. The mags have to dummy them down a LOT. Also, to
give a new kid some serious attention is a VERY good service in my book. If the
mags WERE to put some serious text down about a ski what brand do you think it
would be? : ) Along these same lines, I'd also REALLY like to see two more
reviews, man! ---How about the weirdo extreme VANDEL and the VISU? THANKS!!!
Wouldn't it be great to see a hard study of these unusual new players? That's
what I thought!

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national travel forums! HOLY SMOKES! 800-763-6923

Thanks for the feedback Jeff. As I may have mentioned - I'm happy to do
evaluations when people send me stuff and I've got time. I'm not making any
money on it, so I'm not out soliciting stuff - it'll happen as people send
me stuff to look at. Also, I'll pretty much only publish an evaluation if
the distributer is OK with my honest assessment.

I don't know if anybody brings the Vandels into this country, so I sort of
doubt they'd be too excited about paying freight and customs to get a single
pair over here. But I'd happily take 'em for a ride if they showed up. Same
with Visu.

Time to pack for Nationals. Hope to see some RSN folks in Rumford!
ZC

"Jeff Potter" wrote in message
.. .
Thanks for the report, Zach! Lots of interesting details. It's great to
see a
REAL ski report for a change. The mags have to dummy them down a LOT.
Also, to
give a new kid some serious attention is a VERY good service in my book.
If the
mags WERE to put some serious text down about a ski what brand do you
think it
would be? : ) Along these same lines, I'd also REALLY like to see two
more
reviews, man! ---How about the weirdo extreme VANDEL and the VISU?
THANKS!!!
Wouldn't it be great to see a hard study of these unusual new players?
That's
what I thought!

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself culture...
...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies...
...rare books on ski, bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller
about smalltown smuggling ... radical novels coming up!
...original downloadable music ... and articles galore!
plus national travel forums! HOLY SMOKES! 800-763-6923

Zach,
This relates more to the ski comparisons and weight percentages you made in
passing. Recently, I demo'd a pair of Atomic RS-11 skates, which were marked by
the Atomic rep for 165-175 lbs, of which I was in the middle that day. The ride
was more noticeably bumpy than anything I'd ever experienced, a constant
thumping from every undulation and unevenness in the trail, like what happens
when a fast moving car goes over closely placed tar strips in the road. We
switched to a pair flexed 180 lbs, and the same constant bumping moved all
under the heel. Of course, the rep said no one ever complaind of this before.
Do you know if this something in the nature of the Atomic design, or an
indication that I would need to go well over 100% in flex in that ski. As I
recall, when Atomic changed design a few years ago, their shop book flexing
skates at 90% max (I think Rick Halling even said this to me).

Gene Goldenfeld



Zachary Caldwell wrote:

Joe Gollinger asked me to evaluate a pair of the Ski Trab top-level skate
skis that he's distributing. I'm happy to evaluate anything anybody sends
me - provided I've got the time. Christmas turned out to be an ideal time.
Here are my impressions:

I'll second Zach Caldwell's idea.

If anyone wants to send me free stuff to evaluate I will post my full and
complete results here.
I do not promise anything scientific but after 3-4 years of not purchasing
anything new I could really use some new stuff.

JK

I would especially like to evaluate some new clothing - Craft, Patagonia,
Koch XC wear. Although, a new pair of classic skis would be great too. I
think that a good pair of top of the line waxless skis would be a start....
Does Ski Trab make a waxless classic ski?

Hi Gene - Without having experienced the sensation I can't say for certain
what you were feeling. But I can take an educated guess.

The RS-11 is characterized by a very subtle and fairly soft tip with a
focused "hot-spot" pressure distribution a good ways back toward the foot.
The mid-body of the ski is stiff. The ski is very light and resilient - not
a lot of dampening characteristic built into the materials. These
characteristics seem to be a pretty direct reflection of what top-level
World Cup skiers are look for. Rick Halling mentioned last year that a lot
of the stronger guys were going with the wet construction ski which
exagerates these characteristics even beyond the dry ski.

The performance characteristics associated with this type of construction
appear to be a decisive high speed "break" - the ski reaches a point and
then really accelerates. Also, the skis tend to respond very well to HARD
skiing - they acclerate under foot when you push on them, rather than
bogging down. Basically, I feel that the RS:11 might be analagous to a
Ferrari. Pretty awesome, but maybe not totally suited to dirt roads (or
bumpy tracks).

My recommendation, if you're looking for a smoother ski, would be to check
out the RS:11s and make sure that you're trying a dry construction ski. On
the Atomics the difference is in the pressure distribution - not in the base
material. Also, I would tend to look for something with a pretty high
closing weight (near 100%), but a somewhat lower camber height (that's the
number that was probably something like a 2.8 or 2.9 on the first pair you
tried, and probably over 3.0 on the second pair).

The other option would be to look at a ski with a longer forebody pressure
distribution, like a Madshus. The Fischer skatecuts are also generall quite
smooth - although the National Team guys on Fischer are on something closer
to a super-exagerated version of the construction I described with the
Atomic. I've been skiing around on a pair of Fischer race-room skis that Eli
Brown brought back from Austria and have found that they are extremely fast
at high speed and that they really jump under foot when I ski them hard. But
they're not at all stable or forgiving, and they're pretty slow climbing
unless I'm just cranking on them. Basically, I'm just not enough of a skier
for these things! I haven't seen Atomics that extreme. But it might be worth
taking the Atomics out for a real workout and seeing how they perform under
stress. I find that, even though I can't make use of those Fischers for more
than a few strides at a time - those few strides make them a total blast to
ski on!

Hope this helps.

Zach


"Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message
...
Zach,
This relates more to the ski comparisons and weight percentages you made
in
passing. Recently, I demo'd a pair of Atomic RS-11 skates, which were
marked by
the Atomic rep for 165-175 lbs, of which I was in the middle that day.
The ride
was more noticeably bumpy than anything I'd ever experienced, a constant
thumping from every undulation and unevenness in the trail, like what
happens
when a fast moving car goes over closely placed tar strips in the road.
We
switched to a pair flexed 180 lbs, and the same constant bumping moved
all
under the heel. Of course, the rep said no one ever complaind of this
before.
Do you know if this something in the nature of the Atomic design, or an
indication that I would need to go well over 100% in flex in that ski. As
I
recall, when Atomic changed design a few years ago, their shop book
flexing
skates at 90% max (I think Rick Halling even said this to me).

Gene Goldenfeld



Zachary Caldwell wrote:

Joe Gollinger asked me to evaluate a pair of the Ski Trab top-level
skate
skis that he's distributing. I'm happy to evaluate anything anybody
sends
me - provided I've got the time. Christmas turned out to be an ideal
time.
Here are my impressions:

Thanks, Zach. I think the last pair of RS11s tried were a 3.3, and the rep
suggested something in that range. This was a demo day and I figured why
not find out about the hype. Plus, I got badly burned by a Rick Halling
factory pick three seasons ago and wanted to see if the Atomics were still
way soft. The RS11s were fast skis, even with the constant thumping under
foot (if you pay attention, you can feel the undulations of a trail with
any ski, but with these I didn't have to pay atttention: they came to me).

Maybe we should invite you to do a ski review at the beginning of each
season.

Gene


Zachary Caldwell wrote:

Hi Gene - Without having experienced the sensation I can't say for certain
what you were feeling. But I can take an educated guess.

The RS-11 is characterized by a very subtle and fairly soft tip with a
focused "hot-spot" pressure distribution a good ways back toward the foot.
The mid-body of the ski is stiff. The ski is very light and resilient - not
a lot of dampening characteristic built into the materials. These
characteristics seem to be a pretty direct reflection of what top-level
World Cup skiers are look for. Rick Halling mentioned last year that a lot
of the stronger guys were going with the wet construction ski which
exagerates these characteristics even beyond the dry ski.

The performance characteristics associated with this type of construction
appear to be a decisive high speed "break" - the ski reaches a point and
then really accelerates. Also, the skis tend to respond very well to HARD
skiing - they acclerate under foot when you push on them, rather than
bogging down. Basically, I feel that the RS:11 might be analagous to a
Ferrari. Pretty awesome, but maybe not totally suited to dirt roads (or
bumpy tracks).

My recommendation, if you're looking for a smoother ski, would be to check
out the RS:11s and make sure that you're trying a dry construction ski. On
the Atomics the difference is in the pressure distribution - not in the base
material. Also, I would tend to look for something with a pretty high
closing weight (near 100%), but a somewhat lower camber height (that's the
number that was probably something like a 2.8 or 2.9 on the first pair you
tried, and probably over 3.0 on the second pair).

The other option would be to look at a ski with a longer forebody pressure
distribution, like a Madshus. The Fischer skatecuts are also generall quite
smooth - although the National Team guys on Fischer are on something closer
to a super-exagerated version of the construction I described with the
Atomic. I've been skiing around on a pair of Fischer race-room skis that Eli
Brown brought back from Austria and have found that they are extremely fast
at high speed and that they really jump under foot when I ski them hard. But
they're not at all stable or forgiving, and they're pretty slow climbing
unless I'm just cranking on them. Basically, I'm just not enough of a skier
for these things! I haven't seen Atomics that extreme. But it might be worth
taking the Atomics out for a real workout and seeing how they perform under
stress. I find that, even though I can't make use of those Fischers for more
than a few strides at a time - those few strides make them a total blast to
ski on!

Hope this helps.

Zach

"Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message
...
Zach,
This relates more to the ski comparisons and weight percentages you made
in
passing. Recently, I demo'd a pair of Atomic RS-11 skates, which were
marked by
the Atomic rep for 165-175 lbs, of which I was in the middle that day.
The ride
was more noticeably bumpy than anything I'd ever experienced, a constant
thumping from every undulation and unevenness in the trail, like what
happens
when a fast moving car goes over closely placed tar strips in the road.
We
switched to a pair flexed 180 lbs, and the same constant bumping moved
all
under the heel. Of course, the rep said no one ever complaind of this
before.
Do you know if this something in the nature of the Atomic design, or an
indication that I would need to go well over 100% in flex in that ski. As
I
recall, when Atomic changed design a few years ago, their shop book
flexing
skates at 90% max (I think Rick Halling even said this to me).

Gene Goldenfeld



Zachary Caldwell wrote:

Joe Gollinger asked me to evaluate a pair of the Ski Trab top-level
skate
skis that he's distributing. I'm happy to evaluate anything anybody
sends
me - provided I've got the time. Christmas turned out to be an ideal
time.
Here are my impressions: