Ski car?

I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all wheel
drive something. Any comments of which might be better in snow or
reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
gr

On Dec 15, 7:54*pm, gr wrote:
I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all wheel
drive something. Any comments of which might be better in snow or
reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
gr

I am generally happy with my '02 Outback Sport. 140K miles with no
issues except for a bad O2 sensor and scheduled (expensive)
maintenance. Mileage is a bit low (~25 on a highway). I may go back to
a front wheel drive one when this one dies though. Every time I have a
flat non-repairable tire I have to get a whole new set, or shave a new
one to the correct diameter - pain in the rear.Haven't had issues with
the transmission yet, but replacing transmission on an manual AWD is
2x the amount for a manual front WD.
On a plus side - does the Subaru team still offer gifts for buying
their cars? I got a nice pair of Rudy Projects for mine back in '02

Concerning Subaru, there is no Subaru team anymore, tho here and there I
see organizational discounts (PSIA, Costco). I drive a 1999 Outback
stick - the only way I'd buy it - and it does quite well on snow,
assuming good tires. Tho there are some things I like better about the
late 1990 models, there were common repair problems of the expensive
kind that weren't corrected until after about 2002 or 03 (head gasket,
crankseal leak, water pump, etc.). There should be some good deals out
there. The 2010 Outback has been widened and height increased in a way
that looks less stable and in appearance is virtually indistinguishable
from the Forester and Tribeca. Stay away from the turbo.

Gene

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:57:07 -0800 (PST)
" wrote:

On Dec 15, 7:54*pm, gr wrote:
I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all
wheel drive something. Any comments of which might be better in
snow or reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
gr

I am generally happy with my '02 Outback Sport. 140K miles with no
issues except for a bad O2 sensor and scheduled (expensive)
maintenance. Mileage is a bit low (~25 on a highway). I may go back to
a front wheel drive one when this one dies though. Every time I have a
flat non-repairable tire I have to get a whole new set, or shave a new
one to the correct diameter - pain in the rear.Haven't had issues with
the transmission yet, but replacing transmission on an manual AWD is
2x the amount for a manual front WD.
On a plus side - does the Subaru team still offer gifts for buying
their cars? I got a nice pair of Rudy Projects for mine back in '02

On Dec 15, 9:51*pm, wrote:
Concerning Subaru, there is no Subaru team anymore, tho here and there I
see organizational discounts (PSIA, Costco). *I drive a 1999 Outback
stick - the only way I'd buy it - and it does quite well on snow,
assuming good tires. *Tho there are some things I like better about the
late 1990 models, there were common repair problems of the expensive
kind that weren't corrected until after about 2002 or 03 (head gasket,
crankseal leak, water pump, etc.). There should be some good deals out
there. The 2010 Outback has been widened and height increased in a way
that looks less stable and in appearance is virtually indistinguishable
from the Forester and Tribeca. *Stay away from the turbo. *

Gene

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:57:07 -0800 (PST)

" wrote:
On Dec 15, 7:54*pm, gr wrote:
I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all
wheel drive something. Any comments of which might be better in
snow or reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
gr

I am generally happy with my '02 Outback Sport. 140K miles with no
issues except for a bad O2 sensor and scheduled (expensive)
maintenance. Mileage is a bit low (~25 on a highway). I may go back to
a front wheel drive one when this one dies though. Every time I have a
flat non-repairable tire I have to get a whole new set, or shave a new
one to the correct diameter - pain in the rear.Haven't had issues with
the transmission yet, but replacing transmission on an manual AWD is
2x the amount for a manual front WD.
On a plus side - does the Subaru team still offer gifts for buying
their cars? I got a nice pair of Rudy Projects for mine back in '02

mine is manual, too. Good point on tires. My wife's Miata with snow
tires does better in the snow that the outback with all-season tires.
But I still get a free pass at checkpoints in the Sierras (no chains
required), they never really look at the tires.

On Dec 15, 10:54*pm, gr wrote:
I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all wheel
drive something. Any comments of which might be better in snow or
reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
gr

We have an Odyssey that we've driven to ski for the past several year,
but it's been dicey some times. We recently traded in our FWD Element
in for a Pilot. We drove up through Tug Hill and about 30" of snow
this past weekend, it was great! Why go small and equally as
expensive (both in initial and long term costs) with a Scooby Doo?

On Dec 15, 10:54*pm, gr wrote:
I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all wheel
drive something. Any comments of which might be better in snow or
reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?

I've never been clear why people feel they need all wheel drive.
After 20+ years of Adirondack winter driving (never being stuck),
front wheel drive with 4 really good snow tires has proven to be a
killer combination. It rarely is an issue of getting going (or going
fast) - it is all about braking, stopping and cornering. All wheel
drive vehicles usually score poorly in these departments, largely due
to their size, wheelbase and additional weight. That said, I hear
nothing but good things about the Toyota RAV 4 - built on the Camry
platform with similar performance and reliability. I happen to
dislike vans and SUV's, a true 4 doors and trunk kinda guy!

As a former Saab / Subaru mechanic, Gene's comments are spot on.
Based on other family members recent experience w/ Outback wagons,
their repair costs are still quite high.

Tires? Blizzaks are nice tires but they ride like marshmallows on dry
pavement and their "Multi-Cell" compound doesn't last that long.
Nokian Hakk's are great tires, but too hard and loud for my tastes.
The old Michelin Arctic Alpin's were killer tires, I'm now running
their X-ice studless snows and they appear to be a winner (# 1 rating
in the recent Consumer Reports test). If you can stand the noise,
steel studded tires from just about anyone work great.

HTH,
- Bob

I've put about 200,000 miles each on two cars in the last 25 years: a
1984 FWD Saab 900 with 4 snow tires in the winter and a 1998 AWD
Subaru Outback with all-season tires. Both cars had standard
transmission (in 46 years of driving I've never actually owned an
automatic). For me the Outback has performed MUCH better than the
Saab climbing hills on snowy roads, so you can count me as one who's
totally sold on AWD. I'm not sure about the relative performance with
cornering and stopping, but I never had trouble with either.

Jim wrote:
I've put about 200,000 miles each on two cars in the last 25 years: a
1984 FWD Saab 900 with 4 snow tires in the winter and a 1998 AWD
Subaru Outback with all-season tires. Both cars had standard
transmission (in 46 years of driving I've never actually owned an
automatic). For me the Outback has performed MUCH better than the
Saab climbing hills on snowy roads, so you can count me as one who's
totally sold on AWD. I'm not sure about the relative performance with
cornering and stopping, but I never had trouble with either.
I notice several have mentioned manual instead of auto. Is this a
benefit? My Odyssey was my first with traction control and antilock
brakes, which were a giant leap forward for winter driving... so I
wonder if manual vs auto is still a concern.
Gary

gr wrote:
I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all wheel
drive something. Any comments of which might be better in snow or
reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?

If money is no object, you could probably look very hard to find
anything better than a Volvo XC (90/70/60).

You could at the very least expect it to run for 15+ years. :-)

Terje

--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

highpeaksnordic wrote:
Tires? Blizzaks are nice tires but they ride like marshmallows on dry
pavement and their "Multi-Cell" compound doesn't last that long.
Nokian Hakk's are great tires, but too hard and loud for my tastes.
The old Michelin Arctic Alpin's were killer tires, I'm now running
their X-ice studless snows and they appear to be a winner (# 1 rating
in the recent Consumer Reports test). If you can stand the noise,
steel studded tires from just about anyone work great.

Studded tires are not the same, but the winners are from the same group
as above, i.e. Nokia, Michelin, Blizzak.

I just replaced (after 3 seasons) the studded winter tires on our front
drive Opel (i.e. Euro GM), having the "latest & greatest" does make a
very nice difference when driving up in the mountains. :-)

Terje

--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"