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how long is you kick zone???



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 18th 08, 03:01 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
32 Degrees B
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Posts: 34
Default how long is you kick zone???

I think my kick zone is too long. Seems as though a large portion of
my ski is kick zone !!!
A long kick zone means MORE drag right -- less glide area ... ??

27.5 inches (70 cm) for powder conditions, 18 inches (46cm) for
klister on a 200cm ski.

How long is yours ?? Is this a disproportionate amount on my ski ?? I
had it professionally measured when I purchased the skis and the
person doing it is an accomplished racer and ski guy.... but, i'm
still wondering....

anyone else care to measure theirs ???

JKal.
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  #2  
Old March 18th 08, 05:03 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 74
Default how long is you kick zone???

Are you measuring to the hard wax/track or powder point? My favorite
pairs are 55-56cm, while another ski pair 6cm longer is around 47cm.
I've read where top skiers like 54 to 60 cm for a hard track ski, but
preference, ski construction and what the ski will be used for also play
a role.

rm


32 Degrees B wrote:

I think my kick zone is too long. Seems as though a large portion of
my ski is kick zone !!!
A long kick zone means MORE drag right -- less glide area ... ??

27.5 inches (70 cm) for powder conditions, 18 inches (46cm) for
klister on a 200cm ski.

How long is yours ?? Is this a disproportionate amount on my ski ?? I
had it professionally measured when I purchased the skis and the
person doing it is an accomplished racer and ski guy.... but, i'm
still wondering....

anyone else care to measure theirs ???

JKal.

  #3  
Old March 18th 08, 07:50 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
32 Degrees B
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Posts: 34
Default how long is you kick zone???

When my local ski shop guy measured them he said that the longer zone
(70cm=27.5 inches) is for "powder conditions, softer track" and the
shorter zone (46cm=18inches) is for klister. So, generally if the
track is really soft I'll go all 70cm. If its medium/hard track with
good well packed powder I'll go 60cm or so, and on down to the short
klister zone. So if you are reading that the top skiers are 54-60cm
maybe i'm just a bit on the long side of a zone ...

JKal.

On Mar 18, 1:03*pm, wrote:
Are you measuring to the hard wax/track or powder point? *My favorite
pairs are 55-56cm, while another ski pair 6cm longer is around 47cm.
I've read where top skiers like 54 to 60 cm for a hard track ski, but
preference, ski construction and what the ski will be used for also play
a role. *

rm

32 Degrees B wrote:



I think my kick zone is too long. *Seems as though a large portion of
my ski is kick zone !!!
A long kick zone means MORE drag right -- less glide area ... ??


27.5 inches (70 cm) *for powder conditions, 18 inches (46cm) for
klister on a 200cm ski.


How long is yours ?? Is this a disproportionate amount on my ski ?? *I
had it professionally measured when I purchased the skis and the
person doing it is an accomplished racer and ski guy.... but, i'm
still wondering....


anyone else care to measure theirs ???


JKal.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


  #4  
Old March 18th 08, 08:35 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 74
Default how long is you kick zone???

My understanding is how much extra for powder (or klister) has to do in
part with the construction the ski brand uses and and in part the
particular ski's flex profile. Which brand? The hard track to P
distance varies a lot on my skis, as does the difference between
klister and hard track. I got that 54 to 60 from the Swix site and
from posts or articles from some of the top wax techs, talking about
the typical WC ski. Given what they climb, a softer ski with longer
kick zone makes a lot of sense. For what us mortals deal with, and
have to deal with it, it probably does too. I assume you know that
waxing long and looking at wear will give an accurate picture of your
hard track zone.

rm



32 Degrees B wrote:

When my local ski shop guy measured them he said that the longer zone
(70cm=27.5 inches) is for "powder conditions, softer track" and the
shorter zone (46cm=18inches) is for klister. So, generally if the
track is really soft I'll go all 70cm. If its medium/hard track with
good well packed powder I'll go 60cm or so, and on down to the short
klister zone. So if you are reading that the top skiers are 54-60cm
maybe i'm just a bit on the long side of a zone ...

JKal.

On Mar 18, 1:03*pm, wrote:
Are you measuring to the hard wax/track or powder point? *My favorite
pairs are 55-56cm, while another ski pair 6cm longer is around 47cm.
I've read where top skiers like 54 to 60 cm for a hard track ski, but
preference, ski construction and what the ski will be used for also play
a role. *

rm

32 Degrees B wrote:



I think my kick zone is too long. *Seems as though a large portion of
my ski is kick zone !!!
A long kick zone means MORE drag right -- less glide area ... ??


27.5 inches (70 cm) *for powder conditions, 18 inches (46cm) for
klister on a 200cm ski.


How long is yours ?? Is this a disproportionate amount on my ski ?? *I
had it professionally measured when I purchased the skis and the
person doing it is an accomplished racer and ski guy.... but, i'm
still wondering....


anyone else care to measure theirs ???


JKal.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


  #5  
Old March 18th 08, 09:50 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
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Posts: 31
Default how long is you kick zone???

I have a pair of Fischer RCS 202 cm classic cold, medium stiffness,
and my wax zone is 48 cm (19 in.) and klister zone, 40 cm (16 in.). A
small kick zone indeed. I weight 152 lbs which is in the lower range
for the medium stiffness. I like to have good glide and thus prefer to
work more on my striding technique to get good kick than to loose
speed because of a kick zone waxed too long. And I must say I am never
disappointed of the ski glide. It happens with my classic skis that
oftenly I am faster going down hills (in the tracks) than skaters who
also use tracks.
One consequence I noticed over time is that I must wax with a somewhat
warmer kick wax (1-2 °C warmer than other skiers around).

My 2c
RO
  #6  
Old March 18th 08, 11:24 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Jeff and Stephanie Kalember
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Posts: 77
Default how long is you kick zone???

dang, that's one short kick zone - i bet those ARE fast skis !!
JKal.


wrote in message
...
I have a pair of Fischer RCS 202 cm classic cold, medium stiffness,
and my wax zone is 48 cm (19 in.) and klister zone, 40 cm (16 in.). A
small kick zone indeed. I weight 152 lbs which is in the lower range
for the medium stiffness. I like to have good glide and thus prefer to
work more on my striding technique to get good kick than to loose
speed because of a kick zone waxed too long. And I must say I am never
disappointed of the ski glide. It happens with my classic skis that
oftenly I am faster going down hills (in the tracks) than skaters who
also use tracks.
One consequence I noticed over time is that I must wax with a somewhat
warmer kick wax (1-2 °C warmer than other skiers around).

My 2c
RO


  #7  
Old March 19th 08, 01:34 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
polarpoler
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Posts: 15
Default how long is you kick zone???

On Mar 18, 10:01*am, 32 Degrees B wrote:
I think my kick zone is too long. *Seems as though a large portion of
my ski is kick zone !!!
A long kick zone means MORE drag right -- less glide area ... ??

27.5 inches (70 cm) *for powder conditions, 18 inches (46cm) for
klister on a 200cm ski.

How long is yours ?? Is this a disproportionate amount on my ski ?? *I
had it professionally measured when I purchased the skis and the
person doing it is an accomplished racer and ski guy.... but, i'm
still wondering....

anyone else care to measure theirs ???

JKal.


Well, on my 4 to 5 yr old 200cm Fischer classic cold skis, my usual
kick wax zone is at one of the factory marks or 24"; the little-used
klister zone is at about 20". The factory-marked hard wax zone is one
mark longer than I use, i.e., about another 1-1/2". One would assume
you are heavier than I (c. 160 lb) or on a somewhat stiffer ski. In my
experience unless you buy your skis as soon as your shop gets their
supply, or they get a huge number of skis in each length and camber,
you have to take what fits you from what is available. Long kick zone
shouldn't necessarily mean more drag because you should not be
compressing that area of the ski when gliding; it does mean you have a
shorter glide zone and the experts can tell us if that slows you down.
(I've been told that longer skis are generally faster than shorter
ones.)
BTW, we had fabulous international lake skiiing this past weekend -
still lots of snow but repeated thaw-freeze has made the crust thick
enough to support either skating or classic.
Burgess
  #8  
Old March 20th 08, 12:55 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Wily Coyote
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Posts: 15
Default how long is you kick zone???


"polarpoler" wrote in message
...
On Mar 18, 10:01 am, 32 Degrees B wrote:
I think my kick zone is too long. Seems as though a large portion of
my ski is kick zone !!!
A long kick zone means MORE drag right -- less glide area ... ??

27.5 inches (70 cm) for powder conditions, 18 inches (46cm) for
klister on a 200cm ski.

How long is yours ?? Is this a disproportionate amount on my ski ?? I
had it professionally measured when I purchased the skis and the
person doing it is an accomplished racer and ski guy.... but, i'm
still wondering....

anyone else care to measure theirs ???

JKal.


Well, on my 4 to 5 yr old 200cm Fischer classic cold skis, my usual
kick wax zone is at one of the factory marks or 24"; the little-used
klister zone is at about 20". The factory-marked hard wax zone is one
mark longer than I use, i.e., about another 1-1/2". One would assume
you are heavier than I (c. 160 lb) or on a somewhat stiffer ski. In my
experience unless you buy your skis as soon as your shop gets their
supply, or they get a huge number of skis in each length and camber,
you have to take what fits you from what is available. Long kick zone
shouldn't necessarily mean more drag because you should not be
compressing that area of the ski when gliding; it does mean you have a
shorter glide zone and the experts can tell us if that slows you down.
(I've been told that longer skis are generally faster than shorter
ones.)
BTW, we had fabulous international lake skiiing this past weekend -
still lots of snow but repeated thaw-freeze has made the crust thick
enough to support either skating or classic.
Burgess

Here's a stupid question, and I know I should know this already, but how did
you guys determine your klister zones? I know about the "paper test" for
figuring out your basic hard wax zone; is there a different test for klister
(or a basic formula)?

-Jeff


  #9  
Old March 20th 08, 03:32 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 99
Default how long is you kick zone???

On Mar 18, 8:01*am, 32 Degrees B wrote:
I think my kick zone is too long. *Seems as though a large portion of
my ski is kick zone !!!
A long kick zone means MORE drag right -- less glide area ... ??

27.5 inches (70 cm) *for powder conditions, 18 inches (46cm) for
klister on a 200cm ski.

How long is yours ?? Is this a disproportionate amount on my ski ?? *I
had it professionally measured when I purchased the skis and the
person doing it is an accomplished racer and ski guy.... but, i'm
still wondering....

anyone else care to measure theirs ???

JKal.


My Atomic WCC Cold skis grip zone with camber height at half weight:
0.1mm marks: 32 cm forward of binding to 32 cm back (right ski); 36 cm
forward to 21 cm back (left ski)
Waxing to the back of my 27 cm boot, my grip zone is about 60 cm for
my powder skis.

My Atomic WCC Warm (Klister ski) grip zone with camber at half weight:
0.3mm marks: 24 cm forward of binding to 25 cm back (right ski); 25 cm
forward to 22 back (left ski)
Average klister grip zone about 49 cm
Note that the 0.1 mm camber at half-weight point is about 35 to 36 cm
forward of the binding pin.

Atomic WCC Multi (Zero ski with special grip zone):
33.5 cm forward of binding pin to 26 cm back of binding pin, total
59.5 cm grip zone. I didn't get the half-weight camber points, but
since the grip zone is permanent, there's nothing I can do about it
other than to not sand the extremes.

Edgar
 




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