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head injuries pose low risk of brain injuries



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 23rd 04, 08:46 PM
Jeff Potter
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Default head injuries pose low risk of brain injuries

Depending on speeds involved, etc., hitting your head while
rollerskiing poses very low risk of serious brain injury.

And hitting your head is a low risk to begin with---depending.

One can get all kinds of whacks and injuries along the whole range of
impact force and serious and still not get a serious or permanent
injury. So it's not like "touch your head to pave' and do not pass
go." You can bang, bleed, crack, break that sucker quite a bit before
she'll say uncle. Smear the face, lose the teeth, tear off the jaw.
Ooo, it's ugly, but all those things heal or you can get used to them
(Hey, I used to be cute, does that count?) And even all these nasty
things are very unlikely to happen in outdoor sports because we
humanoids are darn good at shielding our noggins and also because the
dang things are tough in so many ways. Of course, just the right light
ping can kill ya, too. Takes all kinds.

Speaking of kinds, back when I was a bike racer I thought I'd do a few
rides with the reg'lar folk, take a break from the racer dudes. I'm a
big tent fella and didn't want to miss out on riding slow at the back.
So I went out on a B or C ride for a change once with the touring club
folks. They were older, etc. Man, could they NOT ride bikes! They
wobbled, they fussed, they worried. And when a beagle came barking
down a lawn a bunch of them piled up when he was still 50 yards away.
Musta touched wheels. They all seemed fine to me, though. We got em
sorted out, bikes readjusted, OK let's ride, but no several stayed
sitting and wanted cars to come, phone calls to be made. Everyone was
fine, bikes were fine, but those teeny abrasions worried a couple of
them. I'd never seen such a thing. THOSE folks needed helmets and all
kinds of padding and body armor. Actually they were just plain old at
MAJOR risk being out on the road. Not only to themselves, but think of
the grief they might cause a motorist. And they were the club
officers. Of one of the biggest US clubs. It was funny! In a kind of
dark way.

--JP
Ads
  #2  
Old August 23rd 04, 10:04 PM
J999w
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Default

You can bang, bleed, crack, break that sucker quite a bit before
she'll say uncle



No thanks, I don't want to be a 'teletubby' laying in the ICU bed with an
intercranial pressure transducer threaded into my skull with Nurse Judy
draining off 10 cc of fluid every couple of hours to keep the pressure down.
(Gee Beave ...how do they thread that in there? ).

Been there, seen that.

jw
milwaukee
(ICU RN)

  #4  
Old August 24th 04, 11:47 AM
John Roden
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I bet no more than 1 in a few hundred head-bangs go that way.


I don't think this is correct. If you look at all the serious injury
and death caused in slow speed motorcycle accidents caused by cars
turning left, my understanding is the etiology is the brain hitting
the inside of the skull and causing swelling. I believe boxers have
similar problems.

I don't like wearing helmets on the bike, but after a few concussions
I feel like it is the best thing for the long term health of my brain.
Many people I ride with do not wear helmets on the bike, that's their
own business too.
  #5  
Old August 24th 04, 03:10 PM
Kenneth Salzberg
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Default

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, John Roden wrote:

I feel like it is the best thing for the long term health of my brain.
Many people I ride with do not wear helmets on the bike, that's their
own business too.


I thought I'd weigh in (if Tegeder is going to). The data dealing with
helmet wearing while bicycling are ambiguous and complicated - many
different factors probably go into the fact that countries with high
helmet wearing have high bike injury rates (including the fact that some
of the low wearing rate/low accident countries are those with very many
bikers, much infrastructure supporting safe biking, and drivers, etc., who
are well aware of bikes and not hostile).
There are, of course, no data about helmets and roller skiing.
However, the notion that whatever I decided to do is my own issue, and
my own problem (and, as a result, something that there should be no
regulations or rules about) is wrong. If one can show that a particular
activity is (more or less) dangerous, and the resulting injuries put a
burden on society (as they usually do: higher medical costs, less
productivity from losing competent workers, burdens on family services,
mental health facilities, etc. etc. etc.), and if one could further show
that some prophylatic behavior could lessen the risk, then it seems to me
that society should regulate the activity.
The only time your actions have no effect on others is if you live apart
from all others. The major problem here is that we don't know the facts -
we don't really know if wearing a helmet will significantly lessen the
sorts of injuries that do more than cause a few day's soreness. It will
lessen those injuries to be sure, but by how much? Enough to justify the
regulation (and its costs)? I have no idea.

I wear a helmet almost every time I go roller skiing.

-Ken

************************************************** *********
Kenneth Salzberg
Hamline University

School of Law (651) 523-2354
1536 Hewitt Ave.
Sisu Skier - 50K Club St. Paul, MN 55104
************************************************** ****************







  #6  
Old August 25th 04, 01:10 AM
Leland Yee
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Default

Kenneth Salzberg wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, John Roden wrote:



I feel like it is the best thing for the long term health of my brain.
Many people I ride with do not wear helmets on the bike, that's their
own business too.



I thought I'd weigh in (if Tegeder is going to). The data dealing with
helmet wearing while bicycling are ambiguous and complicated - many
different factors probably go into the fact that countries with high
helmet wearing have high bike injury rates (including the fact that some
of the low wearing rate/low accident countries are those with very many
bikers, much infrastructure supporting safe biking, and drivers, etc., who
are well aware of bikes and not hostile).
There are, of course, no data about helmets and roller skiing.
However, the notion that whatever I decided to do is my own issue, and
my own problem (and, as a result, something that there should be no
regulations or rules about) is wrong. If one can show that a particular
activity is (more or less) dangerous, and the resulting injuries put a
burden on society (as they usually do: higher medical costs, less
productivity from losing competent workers, burdens on family services,
mental health facilities, etc. etc. etc.), and if one could further show
that some prophylatic behavior could lessen the risk, then it seems to me
that society should regulate the activity.
The only time your actions have no effect on others is if you live apart
from all others. The major problem here is that we don't know the facts -
we don't really know if wearing a helmet will significantly lessen the
sorts of injuries that do more than cause a few day's soreness. It will
lessen those injuries to be sure, but by how much? Enough to justify the
regulation (and its costs)? I have no idea.

I wear a helmet almost every time I go roller skiing.

-Ken

************************************************* **********
Kenneth Salzberg
Hamline University

School of Law (651) 523-2354
1536 Hewitt Ave.
Sisu Skier - 50K Club St. Paul, MN 55104
************************************************* *****************








I'm glad that someone has finally mentioned that almost never does
something you do not affect others, even if indirectly.

Leland Yee
  #7  
Old August 25th 04, 01:12 AM
Jeff Potter
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Default

John Roden wrote:

I bet no more than 1 in a few hundred head-bangs go that way.


I don't think this is correct. If you look at all the serious injury
and death caused in slow speed motorcycle accidents caused by cars
turning left, my understanding is the etiology is the brain hitting
the inside of the skull and causing swelling.


Yeah, but they tend to be going faster than bikers/skiers. And again I
suspect there are tons of bashes for every serious injury.

I believe boxers have
similar problems.


Probably 1 in 1000 boxers have this problem.

If you've had a few concussions, a helmet sounds like a good idea. To
each his own!

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publishing do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more ...
plus radically relevant novels at the ULA's LiteraryRevolution.com
... free music ... tons o' articles ... travel forums ... WOW!


  #8  
Old August 25th 04, 01:14 AM
Jeff Potter
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Posts: n/a
Default

Kenneth Salzberg wrote:

[ ]
However, the notion that whatever I decided to do is my own issue, and
my own problem (and, as a result, something that there should be no
regulations or rules about) is wrong. If one can show that a particular
activity is (more or less) dangerous, and the resulting injuries put a
burden on society (as they usually do: higher medical costs, less
productivity from losing competent workers, burdens on family services,
mental health facilities, etc. etc. etc.), and if one could further show
that some prophylatic behavior could lessen the risk, then it seems to me
that society should regulate the activity.


This is an nth degree argument, isn't it? How safe is safe enough. "If it
saves just one" is commonly used by those with a prison guard mentality. I
agree that one should be made responsible for the results of high risk
behavior.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com
publishing do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more ...
plus radically relevant novels at the ULA's LiteraryRevolution.com
... free music ... tons o' articles ... travel forums ... WOW!


  #10  
Old August 26th 04, 07:45 PM
John Roden
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Default

Boy, I was thinking about the whole premise of the original post and
reflecting back on my last 20 lyears of bicycle racing and I have seen
people crash into fixed objects, curb stones, slide under cars, strike
cars from behind, get t-boned after falling, smash into parking
meters, roadside trash containers, newspaper vending boxes, people,
dogs and whole families. I have seen sliding crashes, end over ends,
bikes spining around and whacking people, and great big pile ups and
little silly ones. Some races have multiple crashes and sometimes a
month will go by without a mishap. Shoot, I can think of four crashes
I have seen just in team time trials, go figure.

My observation is that the cat 5's crash just as much as the p1-2 and
even the euro pros seem to stack it quite a bit in the major tours.

I can say that in my time of bike racing, I have seen many hundreds of
people hit the deck, including plenty of good shots to the head. Most
of my time has been in the post leather hairnet days, so who knows if
the helmets made a difference, but I have sure seen a lot of people
hit their heads on all nature of fixed and moving objects as part of
the sport of bicycle racing and just feel a little uneasy with the
characterization of it as just isolated mayhem. If you just ride
around on your bike, chances are you won't be going over the bars this
season, but if you are out racing every weekend, chances are you will
be on the floor at some point in the year.
 




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