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#1
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
Hi, I just got a new pair of Salomon Equipe 10 skate skis (warm base, stiff ski) on end of season special and had a question ab. preparing the base.
What brush would you suggest I use to refresh the base before starting the softwax process? Something that best removes the surface oxidation that builds up from sitting in the store for 6-12 months and without causing excessive scratches or damage to the nice factory grind. (fine linear) I have 3 metal brushes, a Swix T-158 coarse bronze, a Toko copper and a Swix T-159 brass/nylon combi brush. I was thinking of thinking of five or ten passes with the bronze (I've used this a lot in the past) and then finishing off with copper and then some fibertex. What about just using the copper alone would that be enough to remove oxidation? its a pretty soft brush! I was also thinking of buying a steel brush, either fine or medium, for this purpose and also to refresh the bases of my other skis from time to time during the season to minimize having to stonegrind them so often. Do you think I should or is what I have sufficient? Also, should the coarse bronze brush be replaced periodically? (its still in far better shape than I've seen in some wax rooms) Thanks, Ed |
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#2
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
On Mar 11, 2:34*pm, Ed Miller wrote:
Hi, I just got a new pair of Salomon Equipe 10 skate skis (warm base, stiff ski) on end of season special and had a question ab. preparing the base. What brush would you suggest I use to refresh the base before starting the softwax process? Something that best removes the surface oxidation that builds up from sitting in the store for 6-12 months and without causing excessive scratches or damage to the nice factory grind. (fine linear) I have 3 metal brushes, a Swix T-158 coarse bronze, a Toko copper and a Swix T-159 brass/nylon combi brush. I was thinking of thinking of five or ten passes with the bronze (I've used this a lot in the past) and then finishing off with copper and then some fibertex. What about just using the copper alone would that be enough to remove oxidation? *its a pretty soft brush! *I was also thinking of buying a steel brush, either fine or medium, for this purpose and also to refresh the bases of my other skis from time to time during the season to minimize having to stonegrind them so often. Do you think I should or is what I have sufficient? Also, should the coarse bronze brush be replaced periodically? (its still in far better shape than I've seen in some wax rooms) Thanks, Ed -- Ed Miller I've been puzzled by the use of metal brushes. You would think they would be superior in lifting off oxidation and opening the pores of the base. However, the top stone grinders say not to touch a stone ground base with any metal brushes. I would email Ian at www.tokous.com and ask him. He has been really helpful in answering several of my uestions about bases and waxing. |
#3
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
Given what you have, I'd brush a bit with the copper, giving it some
force, then do a couple of passes with yellow or a base prep, scraping/wiping hot and then brushing in between. Keep the scraper very sharp. As a first step, I've done a couple of light passes with the Swix razor-like blade (with blue handle) successfully, but don't see it listed anymore. One thing about the Salomon skis, expect your scraper to come up black, as if you're taking off P-tex, which you are. There's something wierd about their bases (and their classical skis) that sends me another direction, but a lot of people below the WC level like them - or appreciate the sponsorship. rm Ed Miller wrote: Hi, I just got a new pair of Salomon Equipe 10 skate skis (warm base, stiff ski) on end of season special and had a question ab. preparing the base. What brush would you suggest I use to refresh the base before starting the softwax process? Something that best removes the surface oxidation that builds up from sitting in the store for 6-12 months and without causing excessive scratches or damage to the nice factory grind. (fine linear) I have 3 metal brushes, a Swix T-158 coarse bronze, a Toko copper and a Swix T-159 brass/nylon combi brush. I was thinking of thinking of five or ten passes with the bronze (I've used this a lot in the past) and then finishing off with copper and then some fibertex. What about just using the copper alone would that be enough to remove oxidation? its a pretty soft brush! I was also thinking of buying a steel brush, either fine or medium, for this purpose and also to refresh the bases of my other skis from time to time during the season to minimize having to stonegrind them so often. Do you think I should or is what I have sufficient? Also, should the coarse bronze brush be replaced periodically? (its still in far better shape than I've seen in some wax rooms) Thanks, Ed -- Ed Miller |
#4
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
Provided these are Amer (Atomic)-produced skis, then what they need
more than anything is time. The base is quite hardened by the factory grind process. Brushing with aggressive metal brushes will only abrade the surface and make it worse to deal with. It doesn't make sense to try to "open the pores" with a brush - it just plain doesn't happen. The warm base material itself is not hard to work with on those skis (unlike the cold base, which is very hard). The factory finish is really difficult to deal with. However, it's MUCH easier to work with a ski that's seen a couple of months worth of waxing and skiing than a brand-new ski. I would just start waxing it and keep waxing it. You don't need to do anything extreme, just work on it normally. It's not a question of saturating the base - that's easy to do quickly on a healthy and open base. It's a question of softening the surface. The base you've got is kind of like a scab. You don't want to rip it off - you just want to gently soften it until it dissolves. There is not likely to be any surface oxidation. Some pollution (dirt), for sure. They buff-on a moly-based wax in the factory to make the bases look kind of shiny, and that'll make things (wax scrapings) look pretty dirty for a while. It'll all clean-up and soften and smooth-out after about 50 waxings. The more scraping and regular brushing you do the better it'll get. When the base starts to look dull and feel a bit grabby when you're scraping soft paraffin, then start putting in some harder paraffins. When the harder paraffins don't seem to change the surface anymore, go back to some softer paraffins. By the time you go back to harder paraffins the second time you'll probably have a race-worthy base. If you try to hurry this process up too much by shaving or aggressive brushing you'll probably end up wanting to regrind the ski. ZC On Mar 11, 9:47 pm, wrote: Given what you have, I'd brush a bit with the copper, giving it some force, then do a couple of passes with yellow or a base prep, scraping/wiping hot and then brushing in between. Keep the scraper very sharp. As a first step, I've done a couple of light passes with the Swix razor-like blade (with blue handle) successfully, but don't see it listed anymore. One thing about the Salomon skis, expect your scraper to come up black, as if you're taking off P-tex, which you are. There's something wierd about their bases (and their classical skis) that sends me another direction, but a lot of people below the WC level like them - or appreciate the sponsorship. rm Ed Miller wrote: Hi, I just got a new pair of Salomon Equipe 10 skate skis (warm base, stiff ski) on end of season special and had a question ab. preparing the base. What brush would you suggest I use to refresh the base before starting the softwax process? Something that best removes the surface oxidation that builds up from sitting in the store for 6-12 months and without causing excessive scratches or damage to the nice factory grind. (fine linear) I have 3 metal brushes, a Swix T-158 coarse bronze, a Toko copper and a Swix T-159 brass/nylon combi brush. I was thinking of thinking of five or ten passes with the bronze (I've used this a lot in the past) and then finishing off with copper and then some fibertex. What about just using the copper alone would that be enough to remove oxidation? its a pretty soft brush! I was also thinking of buying a steel brush, either fine or medium, for this purpose and also to refresh the bases of my other skis from time to time during the season to minimize having to stonegrind them so often. Do you think I should or is what I have sufficient? Also, should the coarse bronze brush be replaced periodically? (its still in far better shape than I've seen in some wax rooms) Thanks, Ed -- Ed Miller |
#5
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
On Mar 12, 6:57 am, Zach Caldwell wrote:
Provided these are Amer (Atomic)-produced skis, then what they need more than anything is time. The base is quite hardened by the factory grind process. Brushing with aggressive metal brushes will only abrade the surface and make it worse to deal with. It doesn't make sense to try to "open the pores" with a brush - it just plain doesn't happen. The warm base material itself is not hard to work with on those skis (unlike the cold base, which is very hard). The factory finish is really difficult to deal with. However, it's MUCH easier to work with a ski that's seen a couple of months worth of waxing and skiing than a brand-new ski. I would just start waxing it and keep waxing it. You don't need to do anything extreme, just work on it normally. It's not a question of saturating the base - that's easy to do quickly on a healthy and open base. It's a question of softening the surface. The base you've got is kind of like a scab. You don't want to rip it off - you just want to gently soften it until it dissolves. There is not likely to be any surface oxidation. Some pollution (dirt), for sure. They buff-on a moly-based wax in the factory to make the bases look kind of shiny, and that'll make things (wax scrapings) look pretty dirty for a while. It'll all clean-up and soften and smooth-out after about 50 waxings. The more scraping and regular brushing you do the better it'll get. When the base starts to look dull and feel a bit grabby when you're scraping soft paraffin, then start putting in some harder paraffins. When the harder paraffins don't seem to change the surface anymore, go back to some softer paraffins. By the time you go back to harder paraffins the second time you'll probably have a race-worthy base. If you try to hurry this process up too much by shaving or aggressive brushing you'll probably end up wanting to regrind the ski. ZC Zack - for those of us who are just serious recreational skiers and for whom "50 waxings" is extremely, er, extreme to get a ski in shape, is a fresh stone grinding a reasonable short cut? For me, spending $50 on a fresh grind and hotbox is a very reasonable alternative to all the work you're talking about. I've had (for my purposes!) excellent skis pretty quickly doing that. |
#6
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
On Mar 12, 8:44 am, Camilo wrote:
On Mar 12, 6:57 am, Zach Caldwell wrote: Provided these are Amer (Atomic)-produced skis, then what they need more than anything is time. The base is quite hardened by the factory grind process. Brushing with aggressive metal brushes will only abrade the surface and make it worse to deal with. It doesn't make sense to try to "open the pores" with a brush - it just plain doesn't happen. The warm base material itself is not hard to work with on those skis (unlike the cold base, which is very hard). The factory finish is really difficult to deal with. However, it's MUCH easier to work with a ski that's seen a couple of months worth of waxing and skiing than a brand-new ski. I would just start waxing it and keep waxing it. You don't need to do anything extreme, just work on it normally. It's not a question of saturating the base - that's easy to do quickly on a healthy and open base. It's a question of softening the surface. The base you've got is kind of like a scab. You don't want to rip it off - you just want to gently soften it until it dissolves. There is not likely to be any surface oxidation. Some pollution (dirt), for sure. They buff-on a moly-based wax in the factory to make the bases look kind of shiny, and that'll make things (wax scrapings) look pretty dirty for a while. It'll all clean-up and soften and smooth-out after about 50 waxings. The more scraping and regular brushing you do the better it'll get. When the base starts to look dull and feel a bit grabby when you're scraping soft paraffin, then start putting in some harder paraffins. When the harder paraffins don't seem to change the surface anymore, go back to some softer paraffins. By the time you go back to harder paraffins the second time you'll probably have a race-worthy base. If you try to hurry this process up too much by shaving or aggressive brushing you'll probably end up wanting to regrind the ski. ZC Zack - for those of us who are just serious recreational skiers and for whom "50 waxings" is extremely, er, extreme to get a ski in shape, is a fresh stone grinding a reasonable short cut? For me, spending $50 on a fresh grind and hotbox is a very reasonable alternative to all the work you're talking about. I've had (for my purposes!) excellent skis pretty quickly doing that. For sure, a fresh grind is the fastest way to bring a pair like that up to speed. Most of the work is just trying to undo sub-par factory grind work. ZC |
#7
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
Thanks for correcting me. No wonder my skis are slow.
rm Zach Caldwell wrote: Provided these are Amer (Atomic)-produced skis, then what they need more than anything is time. The base is quite hardened by the factory grind process. Brushing with aggressive metal brushes will only abrade the surface and make it worse to deal with. It doesn't make sense to try to "open the pores" with a brush - it just plain doesn't happen. The warm base material itself is not hard to work with on those skis (unlike the cold base, which is very hard). The factory finish is really difficult to deal with. However, it's MUCH easier to work with a ski that's seen a couple of months worth of waxing and skiing than a brand-new ski. I would just start waxing it and keep waxing it. You don't need to do anything extreme, just work on it normally. It's not a question of saturating the base - that's easy to do quickly on a healthy and open base. It's a question of softening the surface. The base you've got is kind of like a scab. You don't want to rip it off - you just want to gently soften it until it dissolves. There is not likely to be any surface oxidation. Some pollution (dirt), for sure. They buff-on a moly-based wax in the factory to make the bases look kind of shiny, and that'll make things (wax scrapings) look pretty dirty for a while. It'll all clean-up and soften and smooth-out after about 50 waxings. The more scraping and regular brushing you do the better it'll get. When the base starts to look dull and feel a bit grabby when you're scraping soft paraffin, then start putting in some harder paraffins. When the harder paraffins don't seem to change the surface anymore, go back to some softer paraffins. By the time you go back to harder paraffins the second time you'll probably have a race-worthy base. If you try to hurry this process up too much by shaving or aggressive brushing you'll probably end up wanting to regrind the ski. ZC On Mar 11, 9:47 pm, wrote: Given what you have, I'd brush a bit with the copper, giving it some force, then do a couple of passes with yellow or a base prep, scraping/wiping hot and then brushing in between. Keep the scraper very sharp. As a first step, I've done a couple of light passes with the Swix razor-like blade (with blue handle) successfully, but don't see it listed anymore. One thing about the Salomon skis, expect your scraper to come up black, as if you're taking off P-tex, which you are. There's something wierd about their bases (and their classical skis) that sends me another direction, but a lot of people below the WC level like them - or appreciate the sponsorship. rm Ed Miller wrote: Hi, I just got a new pair of Salomon Equipe 10 skate skis (warm base, stiff ski) on end of season special and had a question ab. preparing the base. What brush would you suggest I use to refresh the base before starting the softwax process? Something that best removes the surface oxidation that builds up from sitting in the store for 6-12 months and without causing excessive scratches or damage to the nice factory grind. (fine linear) I have 3 metal brushes, a Swix T-158 coarse bronze, a Toko copper and a Swix T-159 brass/nylon combi brush. I was thinking of thinking of five or ten passes with the bronze (I've used this a lot in the past) and then finishing off with copper and then some fibertex. What about just using the copper alone would that be enough to remove oxidation? its a pretty soft brush! I was also thinking of buying a steel brush, either fine or medium, for this purpose and also to refresh the bases of my other skis from time to time during the season to minimize having to stonegrind them so often. Do you think I should or is what I have sufficient? Also, should the coarse bronze brush be replaced periodically? (its still in far better shape than I've seen in some wax rooms) Thanks, Ed -- Ed Miller |
#8
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Metal Brushes? Preparing new ski base
On Mar 12, 10:57*am, Zach Caldwell wrote:
It'll all clean-up and soften and smooth-out after about 50 waxings. The more scraping and regular brushing you do the better it'll get. Zach - Good to see you posting up again. How about a long, low temp hotboxing on skis like this? Pretty much the same effect as multiple wax and scrapes? Along those lines, are you still using the Star hydrocarbon red for that? What do you think about the Solda white Thermo Wax, specifically advertised as being for hotboxing? Worth the extra $$? - Bob |
#9
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Quote:
Thanks for all the advice guys! |
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