Advice Please for Winter road trip SF to Denver and lot of National Park Skiing

Having visited the US National Parks from Australia a few times in summer -
and hiked with amazement

we are planning a trip in Jan2007 to see them in all their Winter beauty. We
love to cross country ski in

Australia, but would also love to experience the many other winter
activities available in the USA.

Eg - Shoe Showing, dog sledding, ice skating ? and possibly even snow
mobiling +++ others. ?

We have 4 weeks, commencing in San Francisco Mid Jan 2007 (Martin Luther
King holiday weekend)

and fly out of Denver Mid Feb 2007. The last week of our trip will be spent
at Snowmass (Aspen) with

some friends from the USA and we will go Alpine (downhill?) and cross
country skiing there.

We have a tentative route that takes us: over 19 days

San Francisco, Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, Seqoia Nat Park, Las Vegas, Bryce
Canyon, Salt Lake City

- and nearby ski fields, Jackson Hole / Tetons, Yellowstone (Mammoth Hot
Springs Hotel ?)

then south east (via ??) to Snowmass / Aspen. - transit to Denver.

Now all my questions !! :-)

Does the above route seem ok - what places would you add / leave out ? (I am
thinking of

dropping Lake Tahoe and Sequoia to allow more time at the others ?)

I would really love advice on the sorts of different actvities we can do ,
and places we should visit on our

trip. Also places to stay that may be a liitle different / unique. I guess
we would have an upper

limit of around $150 US a night, and hopefully mix that with a number of
$50-90 nights.

We are happy to stay at Hostels, and placesl like Yosemite Bug. Has anyone
experienced

staying at the 10th Mountain Division Huts ?

We will have a rental car - San Francisco to Snowmass. Am I ok in renting a
mid size car , Will

we need chains (Must carry them in the mountains in Australia and use them
occassionally)

The rental companies cant seem to guarrantee chains would be available -
will they be expensive to buy ?

As we are hoping to spend most of the time in the snow - should we consider
a small 4wd rental ?

Any suggestions on an econimical way we can get from Snowmass to Denver for
our flight home, I have found

Colorado Mountain Express (www.cmex.com) but the fare is about $100 US each.

Really appreciate all hints, help and humour.

PS - any suggestions of songs for our winter road trip also greatfully
accepted.

John Riley wrote
I am thinking of dropping Lake Tahoe and Sequoia to allow more time at the
others?

For the groomed-track XC skiing which is the subject of this newsgroup, the
Lake Tahoe region is thought to have the most and best, of the places
mentioned on the trip route.

The _east_ side of Sequoia / Kings National Park has the most spectacular
winter mountain scenery of any of the places mentioned on the trip route.
Not far away in Mammoth Lakes is the Tamarack XC ski center, with some
plenty-enough-spectacular mountains of its own (and close by a very big +
fun downhill-skiing-snowboarding area). I would put driving Rt 395 in
California between Bridgeport and Lone Pine as one of the "not to be missed"
winter roads of USA.

... Shoe Showing

If you're not a very experienced and skilled backcountry skier, then Yes,
snowshoeing sounds like a good way to get into some of the pretty + quiet
areas which are a ways off the roads. But you still need good judgment +
experience handling the winter environment -- with tricky dangers like
avalanches, and the difficulties of navigating when the hiking trails and
markers are covered with snow (and January can be an especially dangerous
and tricky time). Probably want to talk with local experts where you rent
snowshoes -- though there's so many possible opportunities along that trip
route for good snowshoeing, might be better to purchase your own snowshoes
for the trip.

Bryce Canyon is very spectacular with snow on the rocks -- and so are some
of the southern Utah parks around Moab -- might have to get a little lucky
to catch the snow conditions right. I've been lucky to catch a couple of
days below the rim in Bryce Canyon when snow + travel + avalanche-risk
conditions were favorable for getting down into the midst of the rock
formations.

Ken

don'r miss Death Valley National Park on your way from Lone Pine to
Vegas. Stunning views, great canyon hiking, even if it's a day hike,
very comofrotable temps in the winter (no snow though, except on the
highest peaks, like the Telescope, which actually is a pretty scenic
hike on its own).

Chains are ~$30 per pair. You need one pair for a front-wheel-drive
car.

Mammoth is great, reliable skiing, but Royal Gorge and Montecito are
much better scenery-wise.

Be careful around Bryce Canyon, UT - Renegade Mormon cults that like to
practice polygamy inhabit that part of the country.....

You should be able to rent a car from Aspen to DIA for less than
$200....anyway, those van shuttle drivers are maniacs.

In article ,
John Riley wrote:
Eg - Shoe Showing, dog sledding, ice skating ? and possibly even snow
mobiling +++ others. ?

With regard to mushing, there's a fairly big race (Shaver
Lake) in northern California in late January. Those can be
a tremendous amount of fun to watch. If you're interested
in touring (either riding in the basket or driving the sled
yourself) you can find listings of tour companies at
sleddogcentral.com (where you can also find race schedules
and pretty much anything else related to mushing) and at
mushing.com. If you're interested in combining skiing and
mushing, ask tour operators if they offer skijoring, which
is where the skier is towed by the dog. I wouldn't swear to
it but I believe there is also skijoring in the races at
Shaver Lake.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

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In article ,
John Riley wrote:

we are planning a trip in Jan2007 to see them in all their Winter beauty. We
love to cross country ski in Australia, but
would also love to experience the many other winter
activities available in the USA.

Eg - Shoe Showing, dog sledding, ice skating ? and possibly even snow
mobiling +++ others. ?

We have 4 weeks, commencing in San Francisco Mid Jan 2007 (Martin Luther
King holiday weekend)

_ A REALLY REALLY bad weekend to do anything in the
Sierra. Yosemite might be okay then, but I would avoid Lake Tahoe
at all costs during that weekend. It's by far the most crowded
weekend of the winter. Traffic jams on the mountain highways are
common and if it's storming travel is a mess...


and fly out of Denver Mid Feb 2007. The last week of our trip will be spent
at Snowmass (Aspen) with

We have a tentative route that takes us: over 19 days

San Francisco, Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, Seqoia Nat Park, Las Vegas, Bryce
Canyon, Salt Lake City

- and nearby ski fields, Jackson Hole / Tetons, Yellowstone (Mammoth Hot
Springs Hotel ?)

_ That's a lot in 19 days, you got about a least a weeks worth of
just driving on the itinerary. I think you'd have more fun if you
trim the list a biBt, at least in half. Plus, you need to be aware
that many of the high passes in various ranges close in the
winter. South of US 50 none of the highways over the Sierra will
be open in January. (IE. don't plan on using 120 or 108).

_ Personally, I would do the following

SF- Yosemite ( Yosemite in winter is simply not to be missed ),
Lake Tahoe ( most recreation opportunities )- and then down the
east side of the Sierra on 395, if you must go to Vegas. I hate
vegas... I would cross Nevada on 50 or 80, but that makes Bryce
difficult. Southern Utah is beautiful, but it's not really a
skiing destination.


then south east (via ??) to Snowmass / Aspen. - transit to Denver.

Now all my questions !! :-)

Does the above route seem ok - what places would you add / leave out ? (I am
thinking of dropping Lake Tahoe and Sequoia to allow more time at the others ?)


_ You need to drop something. In my experience Mapquest and
Google provide reasonable driving time for trips of this length,
if the weather is good. Start putting some routes in and think
about how much time you really want to spend behind the wheel.
Storms can close highways at that time of year or reduce driving
speeds to 25mph. A drive that takes 3 hrs in the summer can take
9hrs during a storm. I can't really tell you which to drop, they
all have their charms. I do insist that you spend at least 2
nights in Yosemite, you won't regret it. If you're an XC skier,
I think Royal Gorge XC area is also something not to be missed,
but opinions differ on that.

I would really love advice on the sorts of different actvities we can do ,
and places we should visit on our

trip. Also places to stay that may be a liitle different / unique. I guess
we would have an upper

limit of around $150 US a night, and hopefully mix that with a number of
$50-90 nights.

_ Ski resorts and $50 a night are hard combos. It can be done,
but you'll have to look hard.


We are happy to stay at Hostels, and placesl like Yosemite Bug. Has anyone
experienced staying at the 10th Mountain Division Huts ?


_ Those are mostly ski in and you need to make reservations
NOW. A place that's a bit easier to get in that you might like
is the Clair Tappen lodge run by the Sierra Club in Lake Tahoe.

We will have a rental car - San Francisco to Snowmass. Am I OT
in renting a mid size car , Will we need chains (Must carry them
in the mountains in Australia and use them occassionally)

_ You will need chains, if it's snowing they are required to pass
the chain check. Legally in California, you are supposed to have
them at all times with your car in the winter on mountain
highways ( even if you have 4wd). However, if you have 4wd, you
can get past most chain checks without showing that you also have
chains.


The rental companies cant seem to guarrantee chains would be available -
will they be expensive to buy ?

_ No. especially if you plan in advance. Buying before you get to
the chain checks will save you some money. Cheap chains are a
pain to install though. Good ones are in the $100 range.


As we are hoping to spend most of the time in the snow - should we consider
a small 4wd rental ?

_ I would if the cost is not too much different. It's not really
required, but it will make your life easier and definitely helps
if you don't have much experience driving in the snow.

_ Booker C. Benet



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You have a great trip in mind, yet Booker's advice is wise. Rockies and
Sierra are different trips come Winter. If you are combining them
it's better to focus on fewer destinations. A friend and I once did
SF-LA-Grand Canyon-Zion/Bryce-Moab-St. Lake-Tetons-Yellowstone-Bend-SF
camping in 3 weeks, but that was summer. Winter driving conditions are
a different story. Watch for black ice.

If Yosemite, either stay in a cabin on the floor (reservations needed)
or stay in a motel outside the park and drive in. Be sure to 1) eat
once at the Ahwanee and 2) get to Badger Pass (there is a cabin at the
end of the trail overlooking the valley and half-dome on reservation).
The Sierra Club lodge near Tahoe is relatively inexpensive and right by
Royal Gorge (Donner), but reservations for holiday weekends required in
advance. Food is plentiful (chores shared), but get a semi-private
alcove rather than a dorm room, where there aren't (or weren't) any
shades and the bed springs are noisy. There are probably some hostels
along your trip route, but the biggest research you'll have is finding
where the reasonable lodging rates are in advance.

4-wheel drive rentals are expensive. Maybe from outside you can get a
better rate, like Europeans get in the States for air. 4-wheel or
all-wheel drive (Subie) will get you past the checkpoints, if
conditions create them, in all but the worst conditions (10' and
drifting), in which case you might not want to be driving anyhoo.
Don't think any rental companies provide chains anymore. They should
be purchased after renting, to get the correct size. Going cheap is
ok. At chkpts there are often people out there putting them on for
$25, if you can't do it yourself.

Good luck.

RM

On cost of lodging - indeed, finding anything for less than $100 at a
ski resort is unrealistic, but if you are staying outside and are
willing to drive ~30 min (20 miles if it's not snowing), you can get
away with $60-$70. E.g. Mammoth is overpriced and overbooked, but Lee
Vining 20 miles north on 395 always has AAA motel rooms for $70.

By the same scenario, South Lake Tahoe has motel rooms for under $100
on non-holiday weekends. Reno is even cheaper, b/c of the casinos. Reno
is 40 min from skiing.

Why Yosemite? Doesn't come up in my mind as a ski destination. It's
just a valley with a huge rock overlooking it and several big trees.
But it's just my view on it. Sequoia 40 miles north has a dedicated
nordic center with great food (if you care) and bigger trees (if you
care). And there is a motel in the foothills on Rt 180 (Sequoia motel?)
with reasonably priced rooms.

" wrote:

Why Yosemite? Doesn't come up in my mind as a ski destination.

Badger Pass Road and offchutes. There's a race there, plus a modest
downhill setup.

In article ,
John Riley wrote:
PS - any suggestions of songs for our winter road trip also greatfully
accepted.

Yes: Yessongs: South Side of the Sky.

A river, a mountain to be crossed...
....
The warmth of the sky. The warmth when you die.

etc.

--