If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
video analysis of my ski technique -- less expensive
I've just started capturing my own amateur ski technique on digital video --
but without buying a digital video camera. Turns out that lots of not-terribly-expensive digital _photo_ cameras will capture a 15-second movie clip. I think that's plenty for analyzing my progress in learning ski technique -- if it's the right 15 seconds. Over the weekend Sharon shot 24 different clips of me trying ski on dryland, both side and front views. I've put some of those clips up on the web at http://roberts-1.com/t/xc034/dry/p1 My photo camera uses Apple Quicktime movie format, so I had to first download the Quicktime Player (see that page for a link to it) Now I;ve found out that I like the Quicktime player for analysis, because it gives me easy control of frame-by-frame advance (and reverse), so I can check body position and timing synchronization at various points in the stroke cycle. I'm just getting started on digital video, so I'd be glad for suggestions about using it with skiing. Ken |
Ads |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
video analysis of my ski technique -- less expensive
"Joe K." skrev i melding ... Ken, You've done a great job as usual! IMO the video quality and duration seem just right for evaluating technique. Nice choice of skis as well! Concerning your V2 I noticed a similar lack of follow through with your poles that I and the people I ski with have when on pavement, with the exception of Vince of course. I'm aware of it and have tried to make corrections but to no avail. For some reason it disappears when on snow. Just can't figure it! It seems to me that he needs to put down the ski before he starts pushing, a common failure. When I am skating, I think of an imaginary line along the road, beneath my body, and I always try to place my feet on that line before I start pushing or kicking. When I succed in doing this, skating is swinging like dixieland music. -- Terje Henriksen Kirkenes --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 27.10.03 |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
video analysis of my ski technique -- less expensive
Joe -
Lack of follow-thru with poles: I've nearly given up on that too. My interpretation is that on most pavement the pole tips just don't grip reliably beyond a certain angle to the rear -- no matter how much I sharpen the tips. I even try to get around this by applying additional down-pressure on the pole tip by pressing with the heel of my hand. But there's long-running (at least back to Endestad and Teaford 1987) school of thought that "full" follow-thru in poling is not a good idea anyway for skating. My interpretation of that is in the far rear-ward angle, the pole is in a "low gear" configuration -- so it doesn't deliver power effectively at high skating speeds. Better to focus my effort on the "high gear" configuration when the pole is at a forward angle near my boot -- the big initial crunch. Jenex 6400 rollerskis: I'm liking them a lot for these reasons: -- two wheels at each end makes it much more stable for rolling over a rut (because as JanneG pointed out, one wheel cannot drop into the rut if its partner wheel right next to it is still rolling on the main pavement surface.) -- I like the hard narrow wheels for training muscle speed, turnover frequency, and correct neuro-muscular rate. -- I like having the speed reducer as an option for training strength and peak force, and for feeling more comfortable on some downhills. -- I can also change the resistance range _without_ the speed reducer -- by swapping in different kinds of 80 mm wheels that I can get from an inline skate shop. Like harder faster wheels for super-speed training. Or the K2 Continental rubber wheels for wet days or strength-force workouts. (Now if only Jenex would space the twinned axles just 20 mm further apart, we could swap in 84 mm or 100 mm inline wheels, for an even smoother ride). I tried the Marwe 610 recently and liked that too -- especially for its larger wheels (around 100 mm) -- had a long and glorious October morning on them at River Rd including the section north of 116. Ed warned me that the bigger wheels might have a learning curve. Yeah, for me about two minutes (Despite the bigger wheels, I bet the actual height of the sole of my foot is still lower to the ground than on inline skates) But while the Marwe 610 offered a nice snow _imitation_ feel, I want my dryland training to be more than just imitation. I also want _exaggeration_ -- to expose my muscles to training stresses and situations that are more effective for producing some adaptation responses, than mere imitation. And for experimenting with new techniques, feeling safe is important for me -- nice to know that speed reducer lever is right down there. Ken |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
video analysis of my ski technique -- less expensive
Terje Henriksen wrote
When I am skating, I think of an imaginary line along the road, beneath my body, and I always try to place my feet on that line before I start pushing. Thanks for that observation, Terje. Now when I go back and look at my V1 video more closely, I see that I'm starting my leg-push with the ski already outside the range of my shoulders. When I compare with the World Cup videos, I see them starting with the ski within the range of their shoulders. So maybe I've been leaving out the first part of the push. An interesting question is the right way to fix this: Land the ski down more under my shoulder -- or move my shoulder more over the ski? Ken P.S. It's odd to see myself with this problem, because on inline skates I love setting my skate down on the _other_ side underneath my body -- across the center-line -- and starting the push from my outside edge. Or even more radical crossing of the center-line, with double-push. Skating like that on inlines is beyond dixieland music. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
video analysis of my ski technique -- less expensive
An interesting question is the right way to fix this: Land the ski down more under my shoulder -- or move my shoulder more over the ski? I vote for moving the upper body with the foot under it. ===== Rob Bradlee Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
video analysis of my ski technique -- less expensive
"Ken Roberts" skrev i melding ... Terje Henriksen wrote When I am skating, I think of an imaginary line along the road, beneath my body, and I always try to place my feet on that line before I start pushing. Thanks for that observation, Terje. Now when I go back and look at my V1 video more closely, I see that I'm starting my leg-push with the ski already outside the range of my shoulders. When I compare with the World Cup videos, I see them starting with the ski within the range of their shoulders. So maybe I've been leaving out the first part of the push. Yes, you are missing an important part of the push. According to speed-skating trainers, the most important and effective part of the push is when you shift the weight from the outside of the ski to the inside. Speed-skaters are the best skaters, so I believe one can learn most of them. They have hundred years of experience. An interesting question is the right way to fix this: Land the ski down more under my shoulder -- or move my shoulder more over the ski? Land the ski under the center of your body; that's my suggestion; you're body should not move. If you do it right, it is like dancing. Ken P.S. It's odd to see myself with this problem, because on inline skates I love setting my skate down on the _other_ side underneath my body -- across the center-line -- and starting the push from my outside edge. Or even more radical crossing of the center-line, with double-push. Skating like that on inlines is beyond dixieland music. Try skiing the same way. I think the most important thing in skating is where you put down your ski. -- Terje Henriksen Kirkenes --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 27.10.03 |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
video analysis of my ski technique -- less expensive
Terje Henriksen wrote:
"Ken Roberts" skrev i melding Try skiing the same way. I think the most important thing in skating is where you put down your ski. 'Dorothys' (Wizard of Oz - click your heels 3 times and ...) This is a drill I use teaching kids to skate - to bring their heels all the way in and touch boots before they set the new ski down. Without telling them what we are accomplishing, they learn to set a flat ski (or slightly outside edged if lucky). I've noticed that if I'm tired and sloppy, I can really tell it in my V2-I tend to overcommit and wind up hanging on the outside edge. Either a hop or extra pole will bring me back, but it costs a lot more in terms of extra effort. Marsh |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
shoulder swing in skating (was video analysis of my ski technique)
Terje Henriksen wrote
Land the ski under the center of your body; that's my suggestion; your body should not move. My observation from videos of inline speedskaters is that they _do_ move their upper body. The big swing of the shoulders is obvious in any of the inline videos listed on http://roberts-1.com/xcski/skate/resources/video I'm also looking at a Rollerski race video clip listed on that page -- which clearly shows the race leader swinging his shoulders from side-to-side. Outrageously enormously swinging -- to move his upper body over the rollerski he is pushing on. The guys behind him are swinging their shoulders too. Thanks to JanneG for making it available. What about snow skiing? I'm seeing a side-to-side _shoulder_ move in those videos too. Especially in the middle V1 section of Thomas Aalsgard: http://avari182.mt.luth.se/Technic/Alsgard1.mpg Looks to me like his shoulders move side-to-side about twice as far as his hips. Aalsgard is not just landing his ski further under his hips. He's also shifting his shoulders out sideways further over the pushing ski. (Vordenberg may allow for a "little loop" of the head in his "new skate" debate with Borowski, but looks to me like Aalsgard has been winning for years with a _big_ loop head motion). I was surprised by the video of Carl Swenson. http://avari182.mt.luth.se/Technic/swenson1.mpg I figured with the American "new skate" coaching, he would have eliminated the "extra" sideways motion of the shoulders. But then in the middle section of his video I saw the same thing: Swenson's shoulders move side-to-side about twice as far as his hips. So now I've started adding the shoulder swing to my V1 skate (offset, paddle-dance). So far it feels strong, it gets me started pushing from more underneath, then adds to the force of the whole push. And it's fun -- the next phase of my ski dance. Ken |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
shoulder swing in skating (was video analysis of my ski technique)
Thanks for videos.
The leading guy on rollerski video is doing Double Push on skis. It is slight, not as pronounced as on skates, but it is DP! Rollerskiing is clearly becoming independent sport with the technique advancement not applicable to snow. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
tahoe trip video | Mike M. Miskulin | Snowboarding | 0 | May 5th 04 06:04 PM |
Grasshopper technique questions! | Tom | Snowboarding | 16 | February 5th 04 05:23 PM |
Classic poles for "New Skate" technique? | Bruce Toien | Nordic Skiing | 7 | September 27th 03 04:02 PM |
MDP's Gameshow Video | Tiburon27 | Snowboarding | 0 | September 20th 03 02:02 PM |
snowboarding video doc input | Juan Parra | Snowboarding | 10 | September 18th 03 09:11 AM |