how much training ...

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:14:12 -0400, "32 degrees"
wrote:

You certainly are one of the biking experts in the group John....
tell me more. What sort of team is Todd on? Are his results in the races
you googled "excellent" or just "ok" ????

Way better than I could achieve. I'm guessing only a couple hundred
American riders have his ability at the moment.

Anytime someone can average over 23mph in a time trial I say WOW, but of
course, I'm an average joe on a bike.
For a 20 yr. old would you say he's possible tour de france material? Or is
that a joke?

Almost everyone who reaches that level has some earlier experience
dominating other riders at the highest amateur or under-23 levels of
the sport. So if he wins or places very highly in some of the
*biggest* races his team competes in withing the next year or two,
then *maybe* -- that is to say it hasn't been ruled out. But unless
he demonstrates that sort of exceptional ability, no chance.

The discussion of the guy who was the topic of the start of this
thread is an example. I believe that within his first year of road
racing Floyd Landis came up against the second-biggest US pro team in
a bunch of races and was gettig top places behind their guys and
beating everyone else, so he was invited onto their team within the
first year or two of road racing. Huge talent shows immediately.

JT


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To bring this back to XC-skiing: I had lunch with Gunde Swan yesterday,
and in the course of our conversation he said that if he could have
done one thing differently during his competitive years it would have
been to train less (rest more). He said that when he was racing he
trained ~900 hours / year. When he stopped racing his training hours
dropped to about half that figure, and he said that in the autumn of
the next year he had never felt stronger. (I asked him if he was
tempted to race again; he said 'no.' By the way, he's still an
incredibly fit guy.)

And don't forget what overtraining did to Per Elofsson. Pretty well
ended his career if you believe what you read about the reasons for his
unexpectedly early retirement from the World Cup circuit.

The bottom line is that the body needs time to recover from abuse
received in training. There is definitely a point of diminishing
returns in training. And, don't forget that road biking is much easier
on the body than most of the things that XC skiers regularly do for
training (e.g., trail running, moosehufing, rollerskiing, mountain
biking, mountain scrambling, ...).

-Everett

Way better than I could achieve. I'm guessing only a couple hundred
American riders have his ability at the moment.

He'll regularly place in the top 1-2-3 of any road bike race here in
Michigan.

Almost everyone who reaches that level has some earlier experience
dominating other riders at the highest amateur or under-23 levels of
the sport. So if he wins or places very highly in some of the
*biggest* races his team competes in withing the next year or two,
then *maybe* -- that is to say it hasn't been ruled out. But unless
he demonstrates that sort of exceptional ability, no chance.


Well, maybe if he keeps it up over the next 1-2-3 years he'll have a big
chance in the U-23 level and eventually make the TDF.


The discussion of the guy who was the topic of the start of this
thread is an example. I believe that within his first year of road
racing Floyd Landis came up against the second-biggest US pro team in
a bunch of races and was gettig top places behind their guys and
beating everyone else, so he was invited onto their team within the
first year or two of road racing. Huge talent shows immediately.


I actually saw Floyd win the NORBA jr. national title here in Michigan way
back in .... '99??
BOB Roll was in the race series the same weekend !! Mtn biking bob roll --
go figure. He got dropped off the back, skipped the last lap of the race,
called his team to deliver him beer as he sat watching the racers go by ...
!!!

JK




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Everett -- IT would seem to me that XC skiing (on snow) would be even EASIER
on the body than biking????
Legs hurt? double pole ! Arms hurt - stride more !! Its like you are
spreading out the pain over more of the body, leaving less pressure on one
particular aspect of it ....

Yes, running is bad news - and hard on the body - but hey, you can't seem to
get a quicker, harder workout !

HOpe you got a picture of you and Gunde !? post it !

JK

I'm still going with the thought that drugladengermanguy (I refuse to say
his name) killed Per Eloffson's career. The one race he couldn't go with
him at SLCity Oly's destroyed Per's mind and body in one short 5km or so.

"Everett" wrote in message
ups.com...
To bring this back to XC-skiing: I had lunch with Gunde Swan yesterday,
and in the course of our conversation he said that if he could have
done one thing differently during his competitive years it would have
been to train less (rest more). He said that when he was racing he
trained ~900 hours / year. When he stopped racing his training hours
dropped to about half that figure, and he said that in the autumn of
the next year he had never felt stronger. (I asked him if he was
tempted to race again; he said 'no.' By the way, he's still an
incredibly fit guy.)

And don't forget what overtraining did to Per Elofsson. Pretty well
ended his career if you believe what you read about the reasons for his
unexpectedly early retirement from the World Cup circuit.

The bottom line is that the body needs time to recover from abuse
received in training. There is definitely a point of diminishing
returns in training. And, don't forget that road biking is much easier
on the body than most of the things that XC skiers regularly do for
training (e.g., trail running, moosehufing, rollerskiing, mountain
biking, mountain scrambling, ...).

-Everett

he rides for living - doesn't he? 40 hrs a week is what a 9-5 job gives
you. If we use the 40 hr analogy (40 is close to 50), if you ride 6
days a week, you can ride 3 hrs in the morning, eat, sleep, ride 4 hrs
in the afternoon. I could handle that (I'd bored out of my skull
though).

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:14:12 -0400, "32 degrees"
wrote:

You certainly are one of the biking experts in the group John....
tell me more. What sort of team is Todd on? Are his results in the races
you googled "excellent" or just "ok" ????

Way better than I could achieve. I'm guessing only a couple hundred
American riders have his ability at the moment.

Anytime someone can average over 23mph in a time trial I say WOW, but of
course, I'm an average joe on a bike.
For a 20 yr. old would you say he's possible tour de france material? Or is
that a joke?

Almost everyone who reaches that level has some earlier experience
dominating other riders at the highest amateur or under-23 levels of
the sport. So if he wins or places very highly in some of the
*biggest* races his team competes in withing the next year or two,
then *maybe* -- that is to say it hasn't been ruled out. But unless
he demonstrates that sort of exceptional ability, no chance.

The discussion of the guy who was the topic of the start of this
thread is an example. I believe that within his first year of road
racing Floyd Landis came up against the second-biggest US pro team in
a bunch of races and was gettig top places behind their guys and
beating everyone else, so he was invited onto their team within the
first year or two of road racing. Huge talent shows immediately.

He was also allegedly doing 50 hours a week training. If fate had
somehow conspired to give you the oppurtunity to train 50 hours per
week at his age, you too could have been doing well at a high level.
There are so many factors in road racing that winning or placing high
isn't so important, rather that they saw he was strong was what got
their attention.

Joseph

Everett wrote:
To bring this back to XC-skiing: I had lunch with Gunde Swan yesterday,
and in the course of our conversation he said that if he could have
done one thing differently during his competitive years it would have
been to train less (rest more). He said that when he was racing he
trained ~900 hours / year. When he stopped racing his training hours
dropped to about half that figure, and he said that in the autumn of
the next year he had never felt stronger. (I asked him if he was
tempted to race again; he said 'no.' By the way, he's still an
incredibly fit guy.)

And don't forget what overtraining did to Per Elofsson. Pretty well
ended his career if you believe what you read about the reasons for his
unexpectedly early retirement from the World Cup circuit.

The bottom line is that the body needs time to recover from abuse
received in training. There is definitely a point of diminishing
returns in training. And, don't forget that road biking is much easier
on the body than most of the things that XC skiers regularly do for
training (e.g., trail running, moosehufing, rollerskiing, mountain
biking, mountain scrambling, ...).

I think it's all about intensity. From what I've heard, pros ride 80+%
of the time at low intensity. Certainly much less intense than trail
running, etc. One of the things about road biking is it is possible to
fine tune the intensity level and keep it constant in a way that is
difficult with other sports. If 80% of your training is at basically a
walking pace, you have plenty of time to recover from the other hard
20%.

Joseph

32 degrees wrote:
Everett -- IT would seem to me that XC skiing (on snow) would be even EASIER
on the body than biking????

Ona bike you can always just gear down and take it easy.

Legs hurt? double pole ! Arms hurt - stride more !! Its like you are
spreading out the pain over more of the body, leaving less pressure on one
particular aspect of it ....

Yes, running is bad news - and hard on the body - but hey, you can't seem to
get a quicker, harder workout !

Skiing certainly can give you a quicker whole body workout and it lets
you get the intensity level real high. One thing that may be different
with road bike training and XC training is the length of the events. It
seems that only a handful of XC races are as long as even just an
average bike race (in terms of hours) which may mean that XC racers put
more focus on high intensity in their training, and this trickles down
to the more recreational racers as well.?

How long is the average XC club race?

Joseph

HOpe you got a picture of you and Gunde !? post it !

JK

I'm still going with the thought that drugladengermanguy (I refuse to say
his name) killed Per Eloffson's career. The one race he couldn't go with
him at SLCity Oly's destroyed Per's mind and body in one short 5km or so.

"Everett" wrote in message
ups.com...
To bring this back to XC-skiing: I had lunch with Gunde Swan yesterday,
and in the course of our conversation he said that if he could have
done one thing differently during his competitive years it would have
been to train less (rest more). He said that when he was racing he
trained ~900 hours / year. When he stopped racing his training hours
dropped to about half that figure, and he said that in the autumn of
the next year he had never felt stronger. (I asked him if he was
tempted to race again; he said 'no.' By the way, he's still an
incredibly fit guy.)

And don't forget what overtraining did to Per Elofsson. Pretty well
ended his career if you believe what you read about the reasons for his
unexpectedly early retirement from the World Cup circuit.

The bottom line is that the body needs time to recover from abuse
received in training. There is definitely a point of diminishing
returns in training. And, don't forget that road biking is much easier
on the body than most of the things that XC skiers regularly do for
training (e.g., trail running, moosehufing, rollerskiing, mountain
biking, mountain scrambling, ...).

-Everett

32 degrees wrote:
HOpe you got a picture of you and Gunde !? post it !


Yep. A picture of Gunde, his wife Mari (she also skied in the '88
Olympics in Canmore), their kids, and Rob MacKenzie (a friend of
Gunde's from work that Rob did as a volunteer on the XC events at the
'88 Olympics in Canmore), and me is posted at

http://www.orcascom.com/photopost/sh...=6059 &page=1

-Everett

On 23 Jul 2006 23:49:31 -0700, wrote:

He was also allegedly doing 50 hours a week training.
For road racing or for his mountain biking. he did at least one
24-hour mountain bike race, and training for that then surely he'd do
a few really big weeks.

But tales like "training up to 50 ours a week" don't mean he was doing
that regularly or that it helped his road racing.

JT


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