Powder straps?

I'm wondering what feelings people have about powder streamers or straps. I
know the general advice is to not have leashes, keeping the skis with you as
fall/tumble. But climbing back up a slope in (deep) powder to reclaim (or
find) your ski is quite difficult. I think that you should keep your poles
and skis on you (I wear a helmet, so I'm not so worried about getting hit in
the head by a windmilling ski).

Streamers are harmless, if you can figure out how to keep them out of your
way. Straps, though . . . . I'm curious what kind of skiing you're talking
about, or what kind of skis. Most tele bindings don't release, making the
question moot. If your skis release, you're better off leaving them behind,
helmet or no (don't assume your skis will always politely slash you where
you're protected). I learned to ski years ago when safety straps were
essential, and survived, and if I'm alpine skiing at an area in deep snow I
use them. But backcountry skiing is different. If you're caught in an
avalanche you don't want anything tied to you at all, and finding your skis
again is the least of your problems. A slide big enough to remove your
non-releasable bindings from your boots . . . you get the idea. And
climbing uphill for a dropped pole is far less troubling than the dislocated
shoulder you get from catching your basket on a tree if you're wearing
straps. Tying your stuf to you invites worse consequences than many of the
alternatives. Buy mini-beacons for your skis and find them with your
transceiver if you're really concerned.

Good suggestion on the mini-beacons for the skis. Actually, I'm not a
telemarker; I'm new to the backcountry, so I've only used AT bindings so
far. Your comments are on the mark. Perhaps I'll have some straps for
in-bounds, and some streamers for off-piste.

"quack" wrote in message
...
Streamers are harmless, if you can figure out how to keep them out of your
way. Straps, though . . . . I'm curious what kind of skiing you're
talking
about, or what kind of skis. Most tele bindings don't release, making the
question moot. If your skis release, you're better off leaving them
behind,
helmet or no (don't assume your skis will always politely slash you where
you're protected). I learned to ski years ago when safety straps were
essential, and survived, and if I'm alpine skiing at an area in deep snow
I
use them. But backcountry skiing is different. If you're caught in an
avalanche you don't want anything tied to you at all, and finding your
skis
again is the least of your problems. A slide big enough to remove your
non-releasable bindings from your boots . . . you get the idea. And
climbing uphill for a dropped pole is far less troubling than the
dislocated
shoulder you get from catching your basket on a tree if you're wearing
straps. Tying your stuf to you invites worse consequences than many of
the
alternatives. Buy mini-beacons for your skis and find them with your
transceiver if you're really concerned.

Hi

Good suggestion on the mini-beacons for the skis.
All mountain guides in germany, swizzerland and austria I know, do
recommend NOT to use mini beacons: in the case of a real avalanche, the
searchers are usually stressed very much. The additional signal of a
mini beacon will confuse the searcher; the only thing that should be
send signals should be the bacon of the victim you are looking for.

Florian

Btw: I use straps on the ski and leashes on the poles since I am
standing on skis (this are fourty years). Since thirty years the
strap-bindings release over a certain power. The same is valid for my
poles (in my case Scott for piste skiing and Kohla for backcountry).

If you have learned skiing well, you also learned falling in a way, that
the ski is no danger for you.
--
reply: fanwander at mnet minus online punkt de

On 10-Apr-2004, florian anwander
wrote:

All mountain guides in germany, swizzerland and austria I know, do
recommend NOT to use mini beacons: in the case of a real avalanche, the
searchers are usually stressed very much. The additional signal of a
mini beacon will confuse the searcher; the only thing that should be
send signals should be the bacon of the victim you are looking for.

Yes, that's true. I've never used (or seen, save in ads) the mini-beacons .
.. . I wonder if any come with a different frequency that doesn't interfere
with the main search for buried people? THe best solution I've seen is
dogs: I skied with avy dogs in Canada, and they were great at finding lost
gear, from hats to skis, plus they were fun to have around.

On 10-Apr-2004, florian anwander
wrote:

If you have learned skiing well, you also learned falling in a way, that
the ski is no danger for you.

Avalanches don't much care how well you ski, or for how long you've been
skiing. Getting rid of your gear is good when you're getting tumbled and
mangled. I wear straps on my tele skis at ski areas because they're
required . . . though I see few lift attendants observant enough to notice
people don't have them. And while releasable pole straps sometimes work,
I've found that no straps at all work even better. I like to ski the trees,
and have had to hike uphill often enough to retrieve a pole a tree has
grabbed to be glad I wasn't attached to the pole. A hike uphill beats a
shoulder operation any day.

Hi quack

florian wrote
If you have learned skiing well, you also learned falling in a way, that
the ski is no danger for you.
quack wrote:
Avalanches don't much care how well you ski, or for how long you've been
skiing. Getting rid of your gear is good when you're getting tumbled and
mangled.
We discussed that in the german newsgroup some days ago; the result was:
If an avalanche is catching you, you assumingly won't be able to do
anything reasonable, because of the shock! Perhaps you will be able to
try to stay on the surface (as long as the avalanche moves), because it
will be an instinctive behaviour. But we agreed (and "we" meant also
some guys who already experienced being in an avalanche), that there
will be no reasonable behaviour like removing the straps or opening the
binding. I think it was Martin Engler (one of the european
avalanche-"gurus" beside Werner Munter), who said, the only thing, you
can do is to try to keep the arms in front of your face to get some room
for breathing, when the avalanche stops.

Florian
--
reply: fanwander at mnet minus online punkt de

I agree that, as a matter of course, when skiing in trees, you should remove
your straps on the poles. There are many ways to get snagged, and that does
lead to dislocated shoulder(s). I think the distinction between on-piste
powder skiing (where presumably it is unlikely there will be avalanche
conditions) and backcountry is important. In the backcountry, I'd let
everything go when in an avalanche. I am thinking that having a pair of
snowshoes attached to your pack is a good idea. If you are rescued by your
companions (you do ski with proper distance and companions, yes?!), you'll
still need some way to pack out from where you've fallen.

"quack" wrote in message
...

On 10-Apr-2004, florian anwander

wrote:

people don't have them. And while releasable pole straps sometimes work,
I've found that no straps at all work even better. I like to ski the
trees,
and have had to hike uphill often enough to retrieve a pole a tree has
grabbed to be glad I wasn't attached to the pole. A hike uphill beats a
shoulder operation any day.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
quack wrote:

On 10-Apr-2004, florian anwander
wrote:

If you have learned skiing well, you also learned falling in a way, that
the ski is no danger for you.

Avalanches don't much care how well you ski, or for how long you've been
skiing. Getting rid of your gear is good when you're getting tumbled and
mangled. I wear straps on my tele skis at ski areas because they're
required . . . though I see few lift attendants observant enough to notice
people don't have them. And while releasable pole straps sometimes work,
I've found that no straps at all work even better.

_ My life-links have worked every time I've needed them to. I
HATE skiing without pole straps.

_ Booker C. Bense





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On 11-Apr-2004,
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Apr.11.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote:

My life-links have worked every time I've needed them to. I
HATE skiing without pole straps.

_ Booker C. Bense

I tried the old Ramers with releasable straps--a joke--and have used various
iterations of BD releasable straps, which worked intermittently and I think
were eventually discontinued (platic parts break); I finally quit using
straps at all.

When I was patrolling, it was bad enough to have to connect runaway straps
before I could respond to a wreck; pole straps were just one more thing to
fuss with, and unnecessary. And since I often ended up skiing with no poles
at all, straps seemed doubly unnecessary. Skiing without poles is great for
identifyuing weaknesses in technique otherwise made up for by pole use, and
correcting them.

The advantage of pole straps is that they allow a passive grip, supporting
the pole plant mechanically rather than relying on a strong grasp. I like
pole gripss with enough of a bottom flange to give a bit of support, but
I've always liked the additional grip-strengthening exercise that holding
onto strapless poles demands. Of course this might have contributed to my
near-debilitating elbow tendonitis, too, but there are enough other probable
causes I couldn't say for sure.