pressing ski boot shells

Looking for information or websites with detailed and complete information
regarding techniques and tools for pressing and punching plastic ski boot
shells.

I need to press the toe box area to increase clearance for both toe width
and length. I need to press both Lange and Garmont (PeBax) boots which I
understand have different types of plastic and require the application of
different temperatures and heat sources.

TIA

Private wrote:
Looking for information or websites with detailed and complete information
regarding techniques and tools for pressing and punching plastic ski boot
shells.

I need to press the toe box area to increase clearance for both toe width
and length. I need to press both Lange and Garmont (PeBax) boots which I
understand have different types of plastic and require the application of
different temperatures and heat sources.

TIA

Whew!!
You paid good bucks for those boots. I suspect that you bought
them on line and did not have the benefit of a fit guarantee
from a reputable ski shop.

Having said that, the least expensive way to go, is to go to
a shop like Super Feet. They will sell you custom inserts which
you probably need AND they will handle other fitting chores for
a single price, effectively taking over the fit guarantee
that a shop would normally provide.

As for doing it yourself. The equipment which actually works
is probably out of your price range if you buy it, or out of
your time range if you decide to make your own. Otherwise, for
what a shop will charge you, you won't be able to outfit
yourself with the necessary tools.

I've tried to do what you propose. Being an ex-shop rat, I
felt competent. I had some small success using a conventional
shoe stretcher and a paint removal heat gun. The heat gun, BTW,
will be the least expensive item you'll need.

As for p-bax, I used to have a pair of Lowa Structura, which
I think are p-bax, and stretching in the normal way worked fine.

Do the Garmonts have a heat fit liner? My Scarpa Tornados do.
If it has the heat fit liner, then go to a shop which sells
boots which have heat fit liners (i.e. Dalbello) and have them
do the job. Putting toe cap over your toes when the fitting is
done will make the toe box problem go away completely as long
as your shell fit correctly.

VtSkier wrote:
Private wrote:
Looking for information or websites with detailed and complete
information regarding techniques and tools for pressing and punching
plastic ski boot shells.

I need to press the toe box area to increase clearance for both toe
width and length. I need to press both Lange and Garmont (PeBax)
boots which I understand have different types of plastic and require
the application of different temperatures and heat sources.

TIA

Whew!!
You paid good bucks for those boots. I suspect that you bought
them on line and did not have the benefit of a fit guarantee
from a reputable ski shop.

Having said that, the least expensive way to go, is to go to
a shop like Super Feet. They will sell you custom inserts which
you probably need AND they will handle other fitting chores for
a single price, effectively taking over the fit guarantee
that a shop would normally provide.

As for doing it yourself. The equipment which actually works
is probably out of your price range if you buy it, or out of
your time range if you decide to make your own. Otherwise, for
what a shop will charge you, you won't be able to outfit
yourself with the necessary tools.

I've tried to do what you propose. Being an ex-shop rat, I
felt competent. I had some small success using a conventional
shoe stretcher and a paint removal heat gun. The heat gun, BTW,
will be the least expensive item you'll need.

As for p-bax, I used to have a pair of Lowa Structura, which
I think are p-bax, and stretching in the normal way worked fine.

Do the Garmonts have a heat fit liner? My Scarpa Tornados do.
If it has the heat fit liner, then go to a shop which sells
boots which have heat fit liners (i.e. Dalbello) and have them
do the job. Putting toe cap over your toes when the fitting is
done will make the toe box problem go away completely as long
as your shell fit correctly.

I might have mis-worded the last paragraph.

Have the shop put the toe cap over your toes when you put
your foot into the heated liner/shell. This move the
heat fit "stuff" away from your toes to give them more
room.

VtSkier wrote:
The heat gun, BTW,
will be the least expensive item you'll need.

Last time I punched a boot I dropped the whole shell into boiling water
- no heat gun. For me the tricky part was applying the stretch
internally without also stretching the opposite side.

The original poster also needs to be aware that the toe box shape, sole
shape, AND relative position are part of the DIN specification that
bindings work against. You can't just mess with either of them at will.

You need a big pot if you go the hot water route, but all is not lost.
Fortunately such a big pot can do double duty for boiling the wort while
beer making.

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
VtSkier wrote:
Private wrote:
Looking for information or websites with detailed and complete
information regarding techniques and tools for pressing and punching
plastic ski boot shells.

I need to press the toe box area to increase clearance for both toe
width and length. I need to press both Lange and Garmont (PeBax) boots
which I understand have different types of plastic and require the
application of different temperatures and heat sources.

TIA

Whew!!
You paid good bucks for those boots. I suspect that you bought
them on line and did not have the benefit of a fit guarantee
from a reputable ski shop.

Having said that, the least expensive way to go, is to go to
a shop like Super Feet. They will sell you custom inserts which
you probably need AND they will handle other fitting chores for
a single price, effectively taking over the fit guarantee
that a shop would normally provide.

As for doing it yourself. The equipment which actually works
is probably out of your price range if you buy it, or out of
your time range if you decide to make your own. Otherwise, for
what a shop will charge you, you won't be able to outfit
yourself with the necessary tools.

I've tried to do what you propose. Being an ex-shop rat, I
felt competent. I had some small success using a conventional
shoe stretcher and a paint removal heat gun. The heat gun, BTW,
will be the least expensive item you'll need.

As for p-bax, I used to have a pair of Lowa Structura, which
I think are p-bax, and stretching in the normal way worked fine.

Do the Garmonts have a heat fit liner? My Scarpa Tornados do.
If it has the heat fit liner, then go to a shop which sells
boots which have heat fit liners (i.e. Dalbello) and have them
do the job. Putting toe cap over your toes when the fitting is
done will make the toe box problem go away completely as long
as your shell fit correctly.

I might have mis-worded the last paragraph.

Have the shop put the toe cap over your toes when you put
your foot into the heated liner/shell. This move the
heat fit "stuff" away from your toes to give them more
room.

With respect,
All these answers are correct in some situations, but unfortunately did not
help with the original request.

I have used several custom othotic footbeds, and agree that they are the
best primary bootfitting tool.
..
I am asking because of the failure of several expert skibootfitters to punch
the my current shells sufficiently. I have been using my current boots as a
test for bootfitters (and myself), I will only buy new boots from a fitter
that can at least fit my old ones and can be trusted to also do a good job
with a new pair. Unfortunately I am still looking. IMHO the only fit
guaranty that most shops offer is to solve most problems by fitting too
large.

Heat moldable liners are great and will solve many fit issues but are not a
complete cure for problems that require shaping the shell to remove pressure
points that tend to cause bone calcification growth and other bone spurs and
bruising.

I am familiar with many aspects of bootfitting and shell stretching, but
want more information regarding techniques such as heating by boiling in
water, and control of sole twist and cambering. Many current high end boots
have screw on soles and suspect that these could be used to clamp the boot
to a strongback to control warping of the shell. I hoped to find
information regarding the use of other heat sources like hot air guns and
propane torch. I am also looking for information on various types of
internal and external presses and clamps.

IMHO proper boot fit is essential and I am prepared to do the work to
achieve it. I have some or most of the expensive tooling and the capability
to build others as required.

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
t...
Last time I punched a boot I dropped the whole shell into boiling water -
no heat gun. For me the tricky part was applying the stretch internally
without also stretching the opposite side.

How did you control the opposite side?
Did you try just boiling part of the boot?
Did you have problems with sole cambering or twisting?

The original poster also needs to be aware that the toe box shape, sole
shape, AND relative position are part of the DIN specification that
bindings work against. You can't just mess with either of them at will.

I wish I had DIN spec feet. Do you have a link to the DIN spec?

You need a big pot if you go the hot water route, but all is not lost.
Fortunately such a big pot can do double duty for boiling the wort while
beer making.

On 26 Jan, 22:33, "Private" wrote:
"lal_truckee" wrote in digy.net...

Last time I punched a boot I dropped the whole shell into boiling water -
no heat gun. For me the tricky part was applying the stretch internally
without also stretching the opposite side.How did you control the opposite side?
Did you try just boiling part of the boot?
Did you have problems with sole cambering or twisting?

The original poster also needs to be aware that the toe box shape, sole
shape, AND relative position are part of the DIN specification that
bindings work against. You can't just mess with either of them at will.I wish I had DIN spec feet. Do you have a link to the DIN spec?



You need a big pot if you go the hot water route, but all is not lost.
Fortunately such a big pot can do double duty for boiling the wort while
beer making.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Here are some tools:

http://www.blademaster.ca/products.asp?id=98

This thread has some more material:
http://forums.epicski.com/archive/in...p?t-23586.html

http://www.custombootfit.com/

wrote:

On 26 Jan, 22:33, "Private" wrote:
"lal_truckee" wrote in digy.net...

Last time I punched a boot I dropped the whole shell into boiling water -
no heat gun. For me the tricky part was applying the stretch internally
without also stretching the opposite side.How did you control the opposite side?
Did you try just boiling part of the boot?
Did you have problems with sole cambering or twisting?

The original poster also needs to be aware that the toe box shape, sole
shape, AND relative position are part of the DIN specification that
bindings work against. You can't just mess with either of them at will.I wish I had DIN spec feet. Do you have a link to the DIN spec?


You need a big pot if you go the hot water route, but all is not lost.
Fortunately such a big pot can do double duty for boiling the wort while
beer making.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Here are some tools:

http://www.blademaster.ca/products.asp?id=98

This thread has some more material:
http://forums.epicski.com/archive/in...p?t-23586.html

http://www.custombootfit.com/

Private,
In your response to me, you gave a whole lot more information
that you did in your earlier post. You sounded a whole lot
less like a herb wanting to save some dough than you did
originally.

If you are anywhere near Vermont, talk to Kurt, the main boot-
fitter at Northern Ski Works in Ludlow. Be sure it's the Ludlow
store. He'll talk your ear off about how he does what he does
and show you all of the dandy little devices that he has made
for the benefit of the shop. Best combination of conventional
technology and rube goldberg that I know. The conventional
technology is available at the blademaster website above.

BTW, most bootfitters that I know will use some form of hot
air for small sections and hot water for large areas like
expanding a whole toebox.

VtSkier

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
snip
Private,
In your response to me, you gave a whole lot more information
that you did in your earlier post. You sounded a whole lot
less like a herb wanting to save some dough than you did
originally.

If you are anywhere near Vermont, talk to Kurt, the main boot-
fitter at Northern Ski Works in Ludlow. Be sure it's the Ludlow
store. He'll talk your ear off about how he does what he does
and show you all of the dandy little devices that he has made
for the benefit of the shop. Best combination of conventional
technology and rube goldberg that I know. The conventional
technology is available at the blademaster website above.

BTW, most bootfitters that I know will use some form of hot
air for small sections and hot water for large areas like
expanding a whole toebox.

VtSkier

I recognize that in all likelihood DIY bootfitting is not desirable or
effective from a cost or time basis. I am close to the Calgary/Banff area
but am having trouble finding satisfaction locally. I would love to find
someone who wants to talk, but most are very guarded with their skill and
techniques or lack thereof. My experience causes me to distrust their
capabilities.

I have machined a solid steel internal custom toe box form and have built a
press that will force it into the boot externally but am not happy with
using a propane torch as it seems too severe and I suspect is not good for
the plastic on Langes and may be worse for PeBax in the Garmonts. I have
tried some hot air guns but have not found any that seem to have enough
power, but that may be due to the size of the area that must be softened and
of the quenching effect of the solid steel form. I have some hydraulic rams
(similar to the Blademaster/Scott setup) but have been reluctant to press
internally from the heel for fear of boot distortion, and doubt that it is
desirable to push the heel out. I have built a steel DIN strongback to
control distortion but am not completely happy with it and suspect I may
need to use another (down) clamp to control cambering. The strongback will
give me a way to support the heel if it is necessary to punch from
internally. I have yet to try heating all or a part of the shell and
internal form in hot water before stretching. This is my next step.

How hot should the water be? Boiling?

I understand that there is some memory effect and that the shell will return
to the stock form it not properly heated?

What is the best way to keep the shell from cambering or twisting?

Once I am successful with my old and current Lange boots I will feel better
about attempting a new pair of Garmonts. I have little faith in any local
retailer/bootfitter that I have found.

Thanks for the responses so far.

"Sven Golly" wrote in message
...
"Private" wrote in
news:lLUuh.810352$1T2.552007@pd7urf2no:

I have machined a solid steel internal custom toe box form and have
built a press that will force it into the boot externally

Damn!! Are you also building a digital camera from scratch too? ;-)


Stretching plastic is not simple, but it is not rocket science either.