Should All Skis be Waxless?

For those who don't get the MimniSkinny newsletter.

http://www.sighs.com/srn/000814.html


hth

g.c.

Very interesting. It will also be interesting to read other takes on
this idea. Doubtlessly, given the nature of this forum, folk will
experiment. I will....have a new set of skis in the mail as I write.
One wonders, though, have any of you some experience with this "no-wax"
idea?
Pete

George Cleveland wrote:
For those who don't get the MimniSkinny newsletter.

http://www.sighs.com/srn/000814.html


hth

g.c.
An interesting bit of "blasphemy"!
gr

So, we should all set the iron above 85 Celcius and just seal the
bases?

Also, how "dirty" does the snow have to be in order to significantly
make a waxed ski slower than the nonwaxed?

Jim

I would like to know if he has published any peer-reviewed papers, and
if there has been any real analysis of the research methodology, and
whether his results can be replicated. I would like to see him suggest
to world cup racers to try racing in warm wet snow without a proper
grind and flouros and see how many takers he gets. It may be acceptable
for twice-a-month casual skiers to bypass waxing, but if it is -17c
and dry, wind-blown snow, I am going to put on graphite and start
green. It may be anectdotal, but I think many of us have tried testing
matching skis with different treatments and noticed the difference.
On the other hand... waxing is a barrier to the sport and perhaps
should be de-emphasized for recreational skiers. Certainly for someone
who just wants to get out in the woods on classic skis once a week, I
can't see the point of it.



George Cleveland wrote:
For those who don't get the MimniSkinny newsletter.

http://www.sighs.com/srn/000814.html


hth

g.c.

Well said cpella

The cited paper's conclusions seem to validate the need to scrape,
brush and polish the ski base after waxing to remove surface wax from
the base.

The paper may also be correct when the snow is very dirty and air
temperatures are warm enough to keep snow from bonding to the ski
bases. I have skied Royal Gorge during the spring where skating ski
bases waxed with non-fluro glide waxes became so dirty, I could do a
classic shuffle up hills after 10K because the skis had zero glide.

With respect to recreational skiers, my experience in west coast snow
(Sierra and Cascade ranges) with high moisture snow at freeze-thaw
tempeartures is that recreational skiers need to treat ski bases for
water resistance. When ski bases absorb moisture and the snow is
moist, snow/ice sticks and bonds to the untreated bases. (Is this a
case for cheap bases that do not absorb waxes or water?)

Edgar

"Jim Howe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Also, how "dirty" does the snow have to be in order to significantly
make a waxed ski slower than the nonwaxed?

Jim

Snow is always dirty: "Snow crystals are crystals that have formed around
tiny bits of dirt that have been carried up into the atmosphere by the wind.
So snow crystals are really soil particles that have been dressed up in
ice". (from, among many sources, http://www.pa.msu.edu ).

BarryT

Edgar wrote:
The cited paper's conclusions seem to validate the need to scrape,
brush and polish the ski base after waxing to remove surface wax from
the base.

The paper may also be correct when the snow is very dirty and air
temperatures are warm enough to keep snow from bonding to the ski
bases. I have skied Royal Gorge during the spring where skating ski
bases waxed with non-fluro glide waxes became so dirty, I could do a
classic shuffle up hills after 10K because the skis had zero glide.

With respect to recreational skiers, my experience in west coast snow
(Sierra and Cascade ranges) with high moisture snow at freeze-thaw
tempeartures is that recreational skiers need to treat ski bases for
water resistance. When ski bases absorb moisture and the snow is
moist, snow/ice sticks and bonds to the untreated bases. (Is this a
case for cheap bases that do not absorb waxes or water?)

Edgar

Sounds a bit like what I do to skis mostly;
Base wax and saturate, scrape and brush, maybe press some structure in,
then for the rest of the season mostly just wipe on Notwax.
Doing nothing anywhere near freezing would of course cause clumps of snow!
gr

cpella wrote:
I would like to know if he has published any peer-reviewed papers, and
if there has been any real analysis of the research methodology, and
whether his results can be replicated. I would like to see him suggest
to world cup racers to try racing in warm wet snow without a proper
grind and flouros and see how many takers he gets. It may be acceptable
for twice-a-month casual skiers to bypass waxing, but if it is -17c
and dry, wind-blown snow, I am going to put on graphite and start
green. It may be anectdotal, but I think many of us have tried testing
matching skis with different treatments and noticed the difference.
On the other hand... waxing is a barrier to the sport and perhaps
should be de-emphasized for recreational skiers. Certainly for someone
who just wants to get out in the woods on classic skis once a week, I
can't see the point of it.


It's interesting to see this point raised and not be totally ridiculed
(a fear I'd held if I raised the same question/discussion). :-)

I was introduced to classical x-country skiing on "waxless" fish scale
skis and have never skied on non-patterned bases (classic). The whole
idea of having to wax your skis seemed a bit odd and old-fashioned,
though putting glide wax on the tips and tails obviously makes sense
from a speed/glide perspective. Kick wax seemed to me to be very much an
outdated and bizarre idea. That having been said, my major experience on
classic skis is slogging through long tours on ungroomed snow, and
playing about on backcountry hills. Running around or racing on packed
groomed trails is not something I usually do, so my perspective is
undoubtedly warped by this.

My introduction to skating has been purely on hired gear that was either
(a) unwaxed or (b) might have been waxed once upon a time in the depths
of history, but one could no longer tell without an electron microscope.
=) Consequently I don't know anecdotally what it's like to ski on
skates that have been properly waxed & tuned for the conditions of the
day, and don't have a basis for comparison myself. However for those of
us who are relatively new to the sport, and more into recreational
skiing once a week or once a fortnight, the degree of knowledge, effort
and time required to "properly" wax one's skates seem very forbidding.
So, while I am interested in entering some citizen races, and would
dearly love to be on skis that are perfectly matched to the snow de
jour, for some of us it's all going to be a seemingly herculean effort
and I think I'd enjoy myself more (dare I say it) just slapping on a
pair of unwaxed, or at best/worst
one-wax-fits-most-likely-snow-conditions skis and going for it, in the
knowledge that I'm not going to go as fast as I otherwise could.

The idea of sealing one's skis so that they present a relatively
impermeable base to the snow rather than a textured structure, and
thereby avoid soaking anything up, seems an attactive one.

I guess I just like to keep it simple. =)

Chris