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#1
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What is the deal with combi skis and boots? Is it as simple as you
can skate ski AND/OR classic ski with the same equipment? I assume of course that different poles would be needed, but skis and boots work fine in either technique? How much if anything is sacrificed by having 'combi' equipment vs 'pure' skate/classic equipment? Any experience with this would be helpful. Thanks. |
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#2
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On snow, a combi ski is a compromise probably most often taken by young
juniors as a starter or by someone who can't afford both (or by someone who has been misled by a shop salesperson). The inherent problem with combi skis is that the flex for classic and skate are pretty much the opposite. A well-chosen classic ski flexes (goes down for the push off) at 50-55% of body weight, while a skate ski is most commonly in the 110-120% range. A classic-only ski is also typically 10-20 cm longer than a skate because a classic ski needs a kick zone. I've never used a combi ski, but imagine that for softer snow conditions, where a softer flex ski would work with either technique, one can get away with it ok. Combi boots are closer, tho still different. In classic technique, the forefoot needs to be flexible because the foot rolls forward in the push off. With skating, the forefoot doesn't much matter because the push off is with the inside of the foot, meaning lateral firmness is key. That's where one can get away with the compromise. While the lateral support of a combi boot is not quite that of a skate-only one, probably the biggest deficiency is that even with a plastic ankle wrap, a combi boot doesn't offer the level of ankle support that most people need for skating (and get with a skate-only boot). Another thing of somewhat less importance is that classic boot length should fit like a tennis or hiking shoe, with room in front to allow the foot's forward motion, while a skate boot can be shorter because the motion is side to side. Two situations where a combi boot can work especially well are 1) for those wanting or needing more ankle support and stability than a classical boot typically offers; 2) for classical rollersking, where being higher off the ground makes extra support invaluable. For a beginner, a combi boot can be a starting place, though I imagine one would normally be better off with a second or third level of the line skating boot. Rossi makes a touring boot (X5?) that a shop owner said offers enough support to easy skating. There is a catch-22, tho, as you didn't mention your experience or technique level. It's one of those, "if you have to ask" answers. Typically, it's better for a beginner to start out classical skiing, getting the feel of moving and balancing on one and two feet going forward, before taking on the all-glide, side-to-side motion of skating. But there are exceptions, notably those who have done a lot of ice skating, rollerblading or downhill skiing, i.e., who are already used to balancing and gliding on one foot and moving faster. Gene On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:04:54 -0800 (PST) Jim Whalen NULL wrote: What is the deal with combi skis and boots? Is it as simple as you can skate ski AND/OR classic ski with the same equipment? I assume of course that different poles would be needed, but skis and boots work fine in either technique? How much if anything is sacrificed by having 'combi' equipment vs 'pure' skate/classic equipment? Any experience with this would be helpful. Thanks. |
#3
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On Dec 12, 9:06*am, wrote:
On snow, a combi ski is a compromise probably most often taken by young juniors as a starter or by someone who can't afford both (or by someone who has been misled by a shop salesperson). The inherent problem with combi skis is that the flex for classic and skate are pretty much the opposite. *A well-chosen classic ski flexes (goes down for the push off) at 50-55% of body weight, while a skate ski is most commonly in the 110-120% range. A classic-only ski is also typically 10-20 cm longer than a skate because a classic ski needs a kick zone. I've never used a combi ski, but imagine that for softer snow conditions, where a softer flex ski would work with either technique, one can get away with it ok. Combi boots are closer, tho still different. *In classic technique, the forefoot needs to be flexible because the foot rolls forward in the push off. *With skating, the forefoot doesn't much matter because the push off is with the inside of the foot, meaning lateral firmness is key. That's where one can get away with the compromise. While the lateral support of a combi boot is not quite that of a skate-only one, probably the biggest deficiency is that even with a plastic ankle wrap, a combi boot doesn't offer the level of ankle support that most people need for skating (and get with a skate-only boot). Another thing of somewhat less importance is that classic boot length should fit like a tennis or hiking shoe, with room in front to allow the foot's forward motion, while a skate boot can be shorter because the motion is side to side. * Two situations where a combi boot can work especially well are 1) for those wanting or needing more ankle support and stability than a classical boot typically offers; 2) for classical rollersking, where being higher off the ground makes extra support invaluable. For a beginner, a combi boot can be a starting place, though I imagine one would normally be better off with a second or third level of the line skating boot. Rossi makes a touring boot (X5?) that a shop owner said offers enough support to easy skating. There is a catch-22, tho, as you didn't mention your experience or technique level. It's one of those, "if you have to ask" answers. Typically, it's better for a beginner to start out classical skiing, getting the feel of moving and balancing on one and two feet going forward, before taking on the all-glide, side-to-side motion of skating. *But there are exceptions, notably those who have done a lot of ice skating, rollerblading or downhill skiing, i.e., who are already used to balancing and gliding on one foot and moving faster. Gene On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:04:54 -0800 (PST) Jim Whalen NULL wrote: What is the deal with combi skis and boots? *Is it as simple as you can skate ski AND/OR classic ski with the same equipment? *I assume of course that different poles would be needed, but skis and boots work fine in either technique? *How much if anything is sacrificed by having 'combi' equipment vs 'pure' skate/classic equipment? *Any experience with this would be helpful. Thanks.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Agree with everything and add one more MAJOR disadvantage of combi skis: waxing. Striding requires grip wax which then has to be completely, totally, utterly removed and replaced with some glide wax when switching to skating. Then, when you want to re-wax for striding, unless you strip off the glde wax from that area before you re-wax for grip, that grip wax won't have a good base to adhere to and will wear off very quickly. So, actually, to me, the most seriuous problem is waxing. I think you can "make do" with the skis themselves and the boots, but the waxing is a huge hassle. |
#4
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I've been interested in Combi skis for groomed touring. A skater primarily, I sometimes will stumble upon classic-only trails which I cannot double pole all the way up (need to work on that).
Something new is on the market, and I will demo it end of January. http://www.scandinavianoutdoorstore....t/intelligrip/ Some sort of removable grip skin, offering heaps of grip. I've been told in a few words that it works to satisfaction. I've been thinking of inventing such a product myself, and am delighted I now don't have to anymore. Although I am already thinking of enhancement, from what I see in the pictures. If the add-on offers A LOT of grip, the stiffer flex of the skating ski may be less of an issue? A longer, thinker grip layer will be engaged similarly to a regular one on a regular classic ski? Glide will be much slower, obviously, but we're talking about being able to stick to the tracks, and not get cold hiking deep snow in skating boots. I'll be sure to review on here and xcskiforum.com when I've had the chance to demo them. |
#5
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On Dec 12, 10:06*am, wrote:
On snow, a combi ski is a compromise probably most often taken by young juniors as a starter or by someone who can't afford both (or by someone who has been misled by a shop salesperson). The inherent problem with combi skis is that the flex for classic and skate are pretty much the opposite. *A well-chosen classic ski flexes (goes down for the push off) at 50-55% of body weight, while a skate ski is most commonly in the 110-120% range. A classic-only ski is also typically 10-20 cm longer than a skate because a classic ski needs a kick zone. I've never used a combi ski, but imagine that for softer snow conditions, where a softer flex ski would work with either technique, one can get away with it ok. Combi boots are closer, tho still different. *In classic technique, the forefoot needs to be flexible because the foot rolls forward in the push off. *With skating, the forefoot doesn't much matter because the push off is with the inside of the foot, meaning lateral firmness is key. That's where one can get away with the compromise. While the lateral support of a combi boot is not quite that of a skate-only one, probably the biggest deficiency is that even with a plastic ankle wrap, a combi boot doesn't offer the level of ankle support that most people need for skating (and get with a skate-only boot). Another thing of somewhat less importance is that classic boot length should fit like a tennis or hiking shoe, with room in front to allow the foot's forward motion, while a skate boot can be shorter because the motion is side to side. * Two situations where a combi boot can work especially well are 1) for those wanting or needing more ankle support and stability than a classical boot typically offers; 2) for classical rollersking, where being higher off the ground makes extra support invaluable. For a beginner, a combi boot can be a starting place, though I imagine one would normally be better off with a second or third level of the line skating boot. Rossi makes a touring boot (X5?) that a shop owner said offers enough support to easy skating. There is a catch-22, tho, as you didn't mention your experience or technique level. It's one of those, "if you have to ask" answers. Typically, it's better for a beginner to start out classical skiing, getting the feel of moving and balancing on one and two feet going forward, before taking on the all-glide, side-to-side motion of skating. *But there are exceptions, notably those who have done a lot of ice skating, rollerblading or downhill skiing, i.e., who are already used to balancing and gliding on one foot and moving faster. Gene On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:04:54 -0800 (PST) Jim Whalen NULL wrote: What is the deal with combi skis and boots? *Is it as simple as you can skate ski AND/OR classic ski with the same equipment? *I assume of course that different poles would be needed, but skis and boots work fine in either technique? *How much if anything is sacrificed by having 'combi' equipment vs 'pure' skate/classic equipment? *Any experience with this would be helpful. Thanks. The interesting "combi" boots are the pursuit boots that World Cup skiers use where they switch technique mid race. The pursuit boots are the manufacturer's "secret" because they would prefer to sell you a classic boot AND a skate boot. Edgar |
#6
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On Dec 25, 12:27*pm, Edgar wrote:
On Dec 12, 10:06*am, wrote: On snow, a combi ski is a compromise probably most often taken by young juniors as a starter or by someone who can't afford both (or by someone who has been misled by a shop salesperson). The inherent problem with combi skis is that the flex for classic and skate are pretty much the opposite. *A well-chosen classic ski flexes (goes down for the push off) at 50-55% of body weight, while a skate ski is most commonly in the 110-120% range. A classic-only ski is also typically 10-20 cm longer than a skate because a classic ski needs a kick zone. I've never used a combi ski, but imagine that for softer snow conditions, where a softer flex ski would work with either technique, one can get away with it ok. Combi boots are closer, tho still different. *In classic technique, the forefoot needs to be flexible because the foot rolls forward in the push off. *With skating, the forefoot doesn't much matter because the push off is with the inside of the foot, meaning lateral firmness is key. That's where one can get away with the compromise. While the lateral support of a combi boot is not quite that of a skate-only one, probably the biggest deficiency is that even with a plastic ankle wrap, a combi boot doesn't offer the level of ankle support that most people need for skating (and get with a skate-only boot). Another thing of somewhat less importance is that classic boot length should fit like a tennis or hiking shoe, with room in front to allow the foot's forward motion, while a skate boot can be shorter because the motion is side to side. * Two situations where a combi boot can work especially well are 1) for those wanting or needing more ankle support and stability than a classical boot typically offers; 2) for classical rollersking, where being higher off the ground makes extra support invaluable. For a beginner, a combi boot can be a starting place, though I imagine one would normally be better off with a second or third level of the line skating boot. Rossi makes a touring boot (X5?) that a shop owner said offers enough support to easy skating. There is a catch-22, tho, as you didn't mention your experience or technique level. It's one of those, "if you have to ask" answers. Typically, it's better for a beginner to start out classical skiing, getting the feel of moving and balancing on one and two feet going forward, before taking on the all-glide, side-to-side motion of skating. *But there are exceptions, notably those who have done a lot of ice skating, rollerblading or downhill skiing, i.e., who are already used to balancing and gliding on one foot and moving faster. Gene On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:04:54 -0800 (PST) Jim Whalen NULL wrote: What is the deal with combi skis and boots? *Is it as simple as you can skate ski AND/OR classic ski with the same equipment? *I assume of course that different poles would be needed, but skis and boots work fine in either technique? *How much if anything is sacrificed by having 'combi' equipment vs 'pure' skate/classic equipment? *Any experience with this would be helpful. Thanks. The interesting "combi" boots are the pursuit boots that World Cup skiers use where they switch technique mid race. *The pursuit boots are the manufacturer's "secret" because they would prefer to sell you a classic boot AND a skate boot. Edgar short touring skis with fishscales work just fine for skating, just don't use kick wax on them. |
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