The Skier and the Snowborder

"Black Metal Martha" wrote in message
It has nothing to do with age. There are young skiers and older
boarders. SOme of my friends my age (early 40s) are boarders, and they
know better than to cut into a lift line, as I've seen lots of boarders
(never skiers, sorry) do.

Yes. And I've never had a boarder race past me in an empty lift line,
squeezing between me and the guide rail, and plant his pole in front of my
board causing me to fall. And then act like it was my fault when I quietly
told him what he had done.

Skiers cut into lift lines here as much as boarders. Some people just won't
wait their turn. If you NEVER see skiers do it you don't live on my planet.

Bob
Skier and Boarder

pigo wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...

Bob wrote:

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...


OK, so how about this:
Snowboarding is....





50% attitude
40% fashion
10% talent

Martha


If they had that much talent, we might be able to get along.

VtSkier


If it takes so little talent, you should be a natural. Give it a try and
see
how much fun it is.

:-)

Bob



Clearly you are snowboarder and just a clearly I was
venting a bit about the snowboarders I encounter on
my hill.

What you don't know is how I really feel. I agree with
others here that it really doesn't make any difference
with what is on your feet. A punk is a punk and there
are punks with skis on their feet as well as snow-
boarders.


If you don't think that there's any difference you need to go to an are that
doesn't allow them and get off of the groomed slopes. The difference is
night and day.


As right as you are, I have skied Mad River Glen, I don't
think you read the rest of my response here where I jones
about riders scraping down slopes they are not really
ready for, over and over again.

But this goes back to punks and peers. I do ski with
a number of riders who are GOOD. They certainly do no
more damage to the trails than good skiers do, and most
of them would rather be in the woods anyway. That's
eastern woods with the trees close together, not those
I've seen out west.

And a big however. A few resorts can afford to keep
snowboarders out. MRG is a skier owner cooperative and the
skiers have the vote. Alta as one of the few who keeps
boarders out by corporate policy is taking advantage of
the fact that most other resorts allow snowboarders and
can attract enough skiers to pay the bills while the vast
majority of areas, if they disallowed snowboarders would
probably fold quite quickly.

Bob (not you) replied to me that he didn't experience the
fact that scraping skiers (there are a few) generally don't
take the same trail again if they had to scrape but that
snowboarders did. He clearly hasn't been to Killington.

VtSkier

VtSkier wrote:
pigo wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...

Bob wrote:

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...


OK, so how about this:
Snowboarding is....





50% attitude
40% fashion
10% talent

Martha


If they had that much talent, we might be able to get along.

VtSkier


If it takes so little talent, you should be a natural. Give it a
try and
see
how much fun it is.

:-)

Bob



Clearly you are snowboarder and just a clearly I was
venting a bit about the snowboarders I encounter on
my hill.

What you don't know is how I really feel. I agree with
others here that it really doesn't make any difference
with what is on your feet. A punk is a punk and there
are punks with skis on their feet as well as snow-
boarders.


If you don't think that there's any difference you need to go to an
are that
doesn't allow them and get off of the groomed slopes. The
difference is
night and day.


As right as you are, I have skied Mad River Glen, I don't
think you read the rest of my response here where I jones
about riders scraping down slopes they are not really
ready for, over and over again.

But this goes back to punks and peers. I do ski with
a number of riders who are GOOD. They certainly do no
more damage to the trails than good skiers do, and most
of them would rather be in the woods anyway. That's
eastern woods with the trees close together, not those
I've seen out west.

And a big however. A few resorts can afford to keep
snowboarders out. MRG is a skier owner cooperative and the
skiers have the vote. Alta as one of the few who keeps
boarders out by corporate policy is taking advantage of
the fact that most other resorts allow snowboarders and
can attract enough skiers to pay the bills while the vast
majority of areas, if they disallowed snowboarders would
probably fold quite quickly.

Bob (not you) replied to me that he didn't experience the
fact that scraping skiers (there are a few) generally don't
take the same trail again if they had to scrape but that
snowboarders did. He clearly hasn't been to Killington.

VtSkier


I know for myself if I find myself scraping down a too-steep slope, and
yes, I've done it a few times, I'm not going to go back to that slope
until I can ski down it without tearing it up. It isn't a very fun
experience for me.

Martha

"Black Metal Martha" wrote in message
I know for myself if I find myself scraping down a too-steep slope, and
yes, I've done it a few times, I'm not going to go back to that slope
until I can ski down it without tearing it up. It isn't a very fun
experience for me.

Martha

But then again, you aren't a teenage boy. Do you think they might respond
differently than you do?

Bob

Bob wrote:
"Black Metal Martha" wrote in message

I know for myself if I find myself scraping down a too-steep slope, and
yes, I've done it a few times, I'm not going to go back to that slope
until I can ski down it without tearing it up. It isn't a very fun
experience for me.

Martha


But then again, you aren't a teenage boy. Do you think they might respond
differently than you do?

Bob


No, she is a skier.

As a skier, regardless of age, she knows how much work
it is "scrape" either using a snowplow (wedge) or side
slip to get out of an uncomfortable spot. When I was
starting, we called side-slipping "chicken plow". There
certainly was laughter from others associated with it.
The only time side-slipping was appropriate was getting
out of a tight spot because of conditions. If you had
to "scrape" the whole trail, your peers did laugh. I
believe they still do, at least around here.

Oh, and I WAS a teenage boy when all of this was happening.
That was some years ago, however. When I was in high school
I generally refused to ski Chief at Okemo unless the
conditions were superb or, soft as in spring skiing.
Today, because of increased skill AND eons better equipment,
I don't think anything at all about going down Chief.

VtSkier

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...

As right as you are, I have skied Mad River Glen, I don't
think you read the rest of my response here where I jones
about riders scraping down slopes they are not really
ready for, over and over again.

You said there was no difference. I say there is. They don't tend to "punk"
with me but I've seen it around be before I went 100% boredfree.

But this goes back to punks and peers. I do ski with
a number of riders who are GOOD. They certainly do no
more damage to the trails than good skiers do, and most
of them would rather be in the woods anyway. That's
eastern woods with the trees close together, not those
I've seen out west.

Your right that on trails (groom) they don't do any damage. Other than their
different direction of travel. I go down the slope, they go across. Not
good.

And a big however. A few resorts can afford to keep
snowboarders out. MRG is a skier owner cooperative and the
skiers have the vote. Alta as one of the few who keeps
boarders out by corporate policy is taking advantage of
the fact that most other resorts allow snowboarders and
can attract enough skiers to pay the bills while the vast
majority of areas, if they disallowed snowboarders would
probably fold quite quickly.

I don't think they would necessarily go broke. I think that lawyers have
alot more to do with ski area financial difficulty than lack of snowboreds.
Lucky for me I got my 20+ years of ski bumming when it was more than image.
I don't give a **** what they do now. If I can't ski without the toys
anymore I have other things I can do. I certainly would move out of Salt
Lake, probably to a beach (outside of California).

Bob wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...

Bob wrote:

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...


OK, so how about this:
Snowboarding is....





50% attitude
40% fashion
10% talent

Martha


If they had that much talent, we might be able to get along.

VtSkier


If it takes so little talent, you should be a natural. Give it a try and

see

how much fun it is.

:-)

Bob



Clearly you are snowboarder and just a clearly I was
venting a bit about the snowboarders I encounter on
my hill.

What you don't know is how I really feel. I agree with
others here that it really doesn't make any difference
with what is on your feet. A punk is a punk and there
are punks with skis on their feet as well as snow-
boarders.

The part about snowboarders that bothers me is that
a certain level of skill can be reached rather quickly
and so, without really learning how to use the tool
and without "paying your dues" and learning the code
and etiquette of downhill snowsports, a snowboarder
can ride a lift and scrape down the hill looking dumb
in survival mode and endangering a whole lot of other
people on the hill.

A skier at the same level of scraping as the snowboarder
is laughed at by his peers and after one scrape down probably
won't scrape down the same trail again. The snowboarder,
OTOH, will scrape down again and again and since all of
his peers are at the same level he is, don't see anything
wrong with it.

Then there is the blindside problem.

On the other, other hand, there are lots of good competent
snowboarders out there who use their tool with grace
and expertise. I ski with a lot of them.

VtSkier


I really see very little difference between skiers and snowboarders other
than the age issue. Skiers sideslip when they get on too steep of a slope
also. I see it all the time. Maybe I see boarders do it more, but I think
that's just because more boarders are teens, who are more likely to get in
over their head. I've never seen this magical laughing that makes skiers
never sideslip. You may do it to your friends, but that doesn't mean
everyone else does.

The "blindside" problem is just that. A problem everyone has to deal with.
If skiers are aware of the problem, thay can easily and effectively
accomidate it. Skiers are blind behind themselves also - you've learned to
deal with that. It is actually more of a problem for boarders. If one is
regular, and one goofy, they can both be on each others blindside. Boarders
are aware of the problem, and do their best to deal with it. We only ask the
same from others sharing the slopes. I certainly have a lot less problems
with boarders now than I did before I learned to understand their weaknesses
and how they maneuver.

The "bigotry" of some skiers about snowboarders is just as offensive to me
as any other bigotry. I think everyone would be better off if they tried to
understand the differences between the two sports. Then they can peacefully
and safely coexist.

I really think that the major issue is the age of riders vs. skiers. If it's
"teens" that are causing the problem because they are teens, don't say that
snowboarders are the problem. There are plenty of crazy teen skiers out
there too. They've been bothering people way before snowboards were
invented.

Bob


Well stated.

Attitude begets attitude. My most effective tool in getting along with
boarders is assuming they are human before rushing to decision. Most
look frightful but act like young gentleman and ladies. And that is
cool. Give the "they're all punks" line a rest and find out for sure.

RAC

pigo wrote:

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...

Bob wrote:

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...


OK, so how about this:
Snowboarding is....





50% attitude
40% fashion
10% talent

Martha


If they had that much talent, we might be able to get along.

VtSkier


If it takes so little talent, you should be a natural. Give it a try and
see
how much fun it is.

:-)

Bob



Clearly you are snowboarder and just a clearly I was
venting a bit about the snowboarders I encounter on
my hill.

What you don't know is how I really feel. I agree with
others here that it really doesn't make any difference
with what is on your feet. A punk is a punk and there
are punks with skis on their feet as well as snow-
boarders.


If you don't think that there's any difference you need to go to an are that
doesn't allow them and get off of the groomed slopes. The difference is
night and day.


Really, it isn't that different. Here's how it breaks down:
- if it involves a traverse, most boarders can't cut it. Those that
do are not of the "scraping" variety
- if it involves a hike that includes skating, nearly 100% of boarders
won't do it. The only hiking boarders involve themselves in has a boot
track and no more.
- where the trees are tight, you will not find a boarder
- if it involves bumps - even intermediate bumps - most boarders will balk

Since the vast majority of my skiing involves one of the above, sliding
with boarders is seldom an issue. In the case that a boarder makes it
into my environment, more power to him/her.

RAC

"rosco" wrote in message
...

Attitude begets attitude. My most effective tool in getting along with
boarders is assuming they are human before rushing to decision. Most look
frightful but act like young gentleman and ladies. And that is cool.
Give the "they're all punks" line a rest and find out for sure.

I never said that "they're all punks". But a high enough % sure are that
it's the general perception. And if I have to say it again I will. THEY ****
UP THE SNOW AND TRAFFIC PATTERN.

rosco wrote:

Well stated.

Attitude begets attitude. My most effective tool in getting along
with
boarders is assuming they are human before rushing to decision. Most

look frightful but act like young gentleman and ladies. And that is
cool. Give the "they're all punks" line a rest and find out for
sure.

RAC

Frightful? Hardly. I'm a metalhead, so no, they never look frightful to
me. Silly, perhaps, with they baggy pants fashions, but certainly not
frightful.

I just don't like it when they run into me.

Martha