Prior Men's Freeride: Purchased.

Just purchased a Prior MFR 162W. Prior is running a sale now through
tomorrow at close. I had previously ridden a Donek Wide 161 for about 1 and
half seasons, but it was recently stolen in a burglary.

I guess I'm just interested in mixing things up a little. The Prior will
have less effective edge and a slightly steeper sidecut, and I can't wait to
see how it performs compared to my old Donek. By all accounts, it is going
to hold an edge like a champ in alot of conditions. We'll see.

The Donek was a great board. It did alot of things very well, but not
everything. My main complaint was its lack of slow speed agility. I
couldn't easily make tight turns without fighting the board. An old post
regarding Donek vs. Prior and fighting with the board vs. riding the board
piqued my interest.

Can't wait for the snow!

Brian.

Just purchased a Prior MFR 162W. Prior is running a sale now through
tomorrow at close. I had previously ridden a Donek Wide 161 for about 1
and
half seasons, but it was recently stolen in a burglary.


Sorry to hear you were ripped off. That sucks, man.

I've always been curious on the Donek Incline/Wide/Sasquatch vs Prior MFR
front as well. Their alpine boards are compared over at
www.bomberonline.com occasionally but not too many comparisons of their
freeride boards. I look forward to your report!

(Of course with all the time I spent in hard boots, I'll probably have my
Wide for years and years!)

-Mike T

Yeah, nothing quite like the violated feeling after you find your personal
belongings missing and doors pryed open...

So it's been said that Donek is to Salomon as Prior is to Burton. Well I've
never ridden a Burton that I liked, and from what I have read the Prior MFR
sounds like it is similar to a Donek in stiffness, both torsional and
longitudinal, except at the nose where it is more forgiving. I think that's
what I want.

I never did become proficient in the moguls with my Donek, and I know you
said you were. You're obviously flat out better boarder than I, but still,
I really don't think the Donek design is conducive to it. I'm hoping for
better luck with the MFR since it doesn't seem so strictly carving oriented.

Brian.


"Mike T" wrote in message
...
Sorry to hear you were ripped off. That sucks, man.

I've always been curious on the Donek Incline/Wide/Sasquatch vs Prior MFR
front as well. Their alpine boards are compared over at
www.bomberonline.com occasionally but not too many comparisons of their
freeride boards. I look forward to your report!

(Of course with all the time I spent in hard boots, I'll probably have my
Wide for years and years!)

-Mike T

"Brian" wrote in message ...
So it's been said that Donek is to Salomon as Prior is to Burton. Well I've
never ridden a Burton that I liked, and from what I have read the Prior MFR
sounds like it is similar to a Donek in stiffness, both torsional and
longitudinal, except at the nose where it is more forgiving. I think that's
what I want.

Personally, I don't think that Donek/Salomon vs Prior/Burton
association makes much sense. First, the sidecuts for Donek and Prior
are both closer to Salomon, where as Burton boards tend to run rather
short. Second, Prior boards have a lot of fiberglass in them, making
them very stiff and damp (and rather heavy feel), just like a Salomon
board. Burton boards are rarely damp, and usually are tend to be on
the lively side as they use a lot of balsa wood and not very much
fiberglass... they tend to be lighter overall as well.

Doneks are only moderately damp and hence you will feel the crud a
little, whereas I suspect (at least comparing to the 4WD) the Priors
will blast through crud just like my Salomon Definition. The problem
with my Definition was that is didn't like making tight slow turns
like my Incline... altohugh Sean really like Incline as a better
carver and strongly recommended it if you don't have excessive boot
overhand.

I never did become proficient in the moguls with my Donek, and I know you
said you were. You're obviously flat out better boarder than I, but still,
I really don't think the Donek design is conducive to it. I'm hoping for
better luck with the MFR since it doesn't seem so strictly carving oriented.

I guess I could agree with that, the Donek nose has a bit of spring to
it and will throw you around a bit more if you go over a mogul. I
didn't have that much trouble with moguls going forward... but I dow
recall my Salomon being more mellow through the bumps as it "pushed"
through a bit better. I don't intentionally ride moguls that much, but
the Donek seems alright. I even did a few runs down riding switch
(definitely about the least likely thing I would ever do voluntarily,
but it's what the advanced instructor had us do). It wasn't too bad,
the biggest issue I had was that my stance setback gave me a long
"tail" when riding swtich and was a little hard to negotiate that
around moguls.

--Arvin

Doneks are only moderately damp and hence you will feel the crud a
little, whereas I suspect (at least comparing to the 4WD) the Priors
will blast through crud just like my Salomon Definition. The problem
with my Definition was that is didn't like making tight slow turns
like my Incline... altohugh Sean really like Incline as a better
carver and strongly recommended it if you don't have excessive boot
overhand.

I couldn't make tight slow turns on the Donek Wide well at all. It was a
constant fight with the board and was therefore not confidence inspiring
from the standpoint of not knowing I would be able to make it do what I
wanted when I wanted. I avoided tress for the most part as a result. With
size 12 boots, the Incline wasn't an option for me, but I suspect they
perform similarly anyhow. Now, I don't know for a fact that the Prior will
be easier in regards to slow tight turning, but I don't think it'll be more
difficult. We'll see. I was mainly looking for something new and different
that was still a high performing freeride board. I'll report back in, oh,
about 6 months. ;-)

Brian.

I couldn't make tight slow turns on the Donek Wide well at all. It was a
constant fight with the board and was therefore not confidence inspiring
from the standpoint of not knowing I would be able to make it do what I
wanted when I wanted. I avoided tress for the most part as a result. With
size 12 boots, the Incline wasn't an option for me, but I suspect they
perform similarly anyhow. Now, I don't know for a fact that the Prior will
be easier in regards to slow tight turning, but I don't think it'll be more
difficult. We'll see. I was mainly looking for something new and different
that was still a high performing freeride board. I'll report back in, oh,
about 6 months. ;-)

Brian.


That reminds me my struggle with Never Summer Legacy. The worst snowboarding
experience I've ever had. But I think that was mainly because it was
such a wide board,
too wide for me. I'm much better now than then, so it makes a
difference too I guess.
Legacy was wide, stiff and very heavy. Maybe your Donek was too wide for you.
BTW, I also got a Prior - Khyber 165! I can't wait to test it in two months ;-)


Andrew

That reminds me my struggle with Never Summer Legacy. The worst
snowboarding
experience I've ever had. But I think that was mainly because it was
such a wide board,
too wide for me. I'm much better now than then, so it makes a
difference too I guess.
Legacy was wide, stiff and very heavy. Maybe your Donek was too wide for
you.
BTW, I also got a Prior - Khyber 165! I can't wait to test it in two
months ;-)


Andrew



Very cool! I just ordered a Khyber 165 as well, can't wait to try in out in
some Swiss powder, although I will be waiting more than 2 months.
Too bad about your experience with the NS, I have a 168 T5 which I really
like. A little on the thin side (need risers with size 13 feet), but
definitely heavy. Although I felt the weight is worth it for how much it
absorbs bumps, and how confident it feels on take off and landing. As for
stiff, I got mine used and it is definitely not stiff, in fact a little soft
for how I like. Would like to try a new one and see if mine is all noodled
out.

Have to let me know if you get the Khyber out before me.

Ed

On 2004-06-21 12:36:29 -0700, "Edward Arata" said:


That reminds me my struggle with Never Summer Legacy. The worst
snowboarding
experience I've ever had. But I think that was mainly because it was
such a wide board,
too wide for me. I'm much better now than then, so it makes a
difference too I guess.
Legacy was wide, stiff and very heavy. Maybe your Donek was too wide for
you.
BTW, I also got a Prior - Khyber 165! I can't wait to test it in two
months ;-)


Andrew



Very cool! I just ordered a Khyber 165 as well, can't wait to try in out in
some Swiss powder, although I will be waiting more than 2 months.
Too bad about your experience with the NS, I have a 168 T5 which I really
like. A little on the thin side (need risers with size 13 feet), but
definitely heavy. Although I felt the weight is worth it for how much it
absorbs bumps, and how confident it feels on take off and landing. As for
stiff, I got mine used and it is definitely not stiff, in fact a little soft
for how I like. Would like to try a new one and see if mine is all noodled
out.

Have to let me know if you get the Khyber out before me.

Ed



Hey, it's great, I will let you know for sure! I think stiffness wasn't
a problem
of my NS Legacy, actually I ride Nitro Shogun and I love it, love it!!!
And it's very stiff.
I think the problem is a combination of stiffness and weight, plus as I
said, it was
too wide for me. But my wife had a disappointing experience with her NS
Premier too,
she much prefers her LibTech. Who cares if you like yours ;-)


A

"Brian" wrote in message ...
Doneks are only moderately damp and hence you will feel the crud a
little, whereas I suspect (at least comparing to the 4WD) the Priors
will blast through crud just like my Salomon Definition. The problem
with my Definition was that is didn't like making tight slow turns
like my Incline... altohugh Sean really like Incline as a better
carver and strongly recommended it if you don't have excessive boot
overhand.

I couldn't make tight slow turns on the Donek Wide well at all. It was a
constant fight with the board and was therefore not confidence inspiring
from the standpoint of not knowing I would be able to make it do what I
wanted when I wanted. I avoided tress for the most part as a result. With
size 12 boots, the Incline wasn't an option for me, but I suspect they
perform similarly anyhow. Now, I don't know for a fact that the Prior will
be easier in regards to slow tight turning, but I don't think it'll be more
difficult. We'll see. I was mainly looking for something new and different
that was still a high performing freeride board. I'll report back in, oh,
about 6 months. ;-)

Brian.

When you say tight slow turns, I'm getting the sense you mean
"skidded" turns and not carved turns - since I've never heard of
someone describing making short carved turns a "constant" fight,
although trying to skid the Donek it very much like that since it
doesn't like skidding.

Did you ever get your edges beveled? The Donek boards come with a 0/0
bevel which is very grabby and finicky if you ever try to skid at
medium/slow speed it grips all over in funny places and is a chore to
manuever like that. When I had it beveled at the standard 1/1
sharpening, it felt a lot more normal (although still not happy
skidding as other boards). Pretty much any shop with set the bevel to
1/1 by default if you ever had the board's edges tuned.

I've ridden a Prior 174cm 4WD through the trees, and whlie it wasn't a
picnic (especially since I normally ride a 155cm), I managed to do it
and still have a bit of fun. Since the MFR is much shorter and softer
board (although Prior boards are still pretty stiff, maybe for higher
speed riding) so I think you should have better luck in the trees.

When you say tight slow turns, I'm getting the sense you mean
"skidded" turns and not carved turns - since I've never heard of
someone describing making short carved turns a "constant" fight,
although trying to skid the Donek it very much like that since it
doesn't like skidding.

I'll agree with Arvin's point that "Doneks don't like skidding".

However I can understand exactly how tight, slow carved turns would be a
constant fight!

Any board that is tipped gently on edge and flexed just enough to decamber
it will make a turn with a radius that is equal to the sidecut radius of the
board, or maybe slightly less if it's a softer board. In order to make a
tighter carved turn than that, you need to force the board up higher on
edge, which will flex the board more in order to keep the whole edge in the
snow and tighten the turn. Not only does this require some leg strength,
it also requires some speed. If you try to really tip the board on edge
without sufficient speed, you'll either tip over and fall or you'll lose
your balance trying not to. Sure, you can help a little bit by keeping your
upper body upright and letting only your lower body get low - but that's
difficult on toeside unless you're in a reasonably forward stance. In any
event, a board with a given sidecut is going to have a limit of how tight a
turn you can make at a given speed. The bigger the sidecut radius, the less
tight you can carve a turn at a given speed. The Donek Wide 161 and Prior
MTF 162w have sidecut radii of 9.09 and 9 m respectively, which is on the
high end of freeride boards. (Burton's 170 cm freeride boards don't even
have that big of a sidecut). Neither of them will carve as tight a turn at
low speeds as a freestyle board with a high-7's to low-8's sidecut.

More info can be found at:

http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/physics.cfm

(Iain, are you still hanging out here????)

Now keep in mind, that the softer the board is, the easier it is to get it
up on edge. I'm not sure how to work that into the phsyics article above
(despite the fact that I majored in math and took a lot of physics classes -
that was too long ago!) but experience tells me this is true. It makes
sense too, when you realize that decambering the board and getting it up on
edge are part of the same process, and a stiffer board takes more force to
decamber.

Now getting back to skidded turns: In my experience, torsional stiffness,
edge length, and longitudinal stiffness (I think in that order, but hard to
say for sure) seem to have the most bearing on how easy it is to skid.
You're going 4 cm lower on edge length with the Prior, so that should
help... but if it's comparable stiffness wise, it might not make that huge a
difference. Brian, I agree with your assessment that it shouldn't be any
harder to turn but I'm not sure I'd expect it to be a whole lot easier
either!)


Did you ever get your edges beveled? The Donek boards come with a 0/0
bevel which is very grabby and finicky if you ever try to skid at
medium/slow speed it grips all over in funny places and is a chore to
manuever like that. When I had it beveled at the standard 1/1
sharpening, it felt a lot more normal (although still not happy
skidding as other boards). Pretty much any shop with set the bevel to
1/1 by default if you ever had the board's edges tuned.

Yep - 1/1 would make much easier to skid and pick your way at low speeds.
(Unless you are switching edges in a very fast slalom-skateboarder-type
rhythm, you're not carving to pick your way around things, so you are
skidding). Even .5 base / 1 side, which is what I use, makes it much, much
less grabby.

I've ridden a Prior 174cm 4WD through the trees, and whlie it wasn't a
picnic (especially since I normally ride a 155cm), I managed to do it
and still have a bit of fun. Since the MFR is much shorter and softer
board (although Prior boards are still pretty stiff, maybe for higher
speed riding) so I think you should have better luck in the trees.

Only time will tell!

One note, I find my Wide good in moguls in trees in part due to my weight,
190+ pounds. Heavier riders will simply flex the board more under their own
weight (back to the physics article - easier to bend board, easier to get up
on edge, tighter turn, more speed though). If I weighed 160, I don't think
my Wide (or an Incline) would be such a party in tight spots!

Mike T