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#21
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Going off trail
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In article , Christos Dimitrakakis wrote: Hello, I have to admit that I am extremely confused as to what type of ski I would need to buy. The basic question is what type of ski I should buy for wandering around the snow with my skis. I had been introduced to skiing via the alpine downhill skiing route, with the standard relatively wide fixed-binding, plastic boot, metal-edged skis. I skied around 10 times before deciding that I really hated spending 90% of my time on freezing lifts and the rest 10% on extremely steep downhill tracks. I guess those are called 'Alpine' skis. Then I discovered cross-country skiing (the standard olympic type) and I've had a lot of fun with it, mostly with skate-type skis. I love the movement, the soft boots, the light skis, but it seems pretty much impossible to go downhill on anything more than the gentlest slopes. I think those are called 'XC' and 'Skate' skis, or occasionally 'Nordic' skis. The ski you want doesn't exist. There isn't a ski out there that doesn't require some skill and effort to turn. You can turn on XC skate skis, but it requires practice. Learning some basic turning skills on your current skate skis will open up a lot of terrain. Find a gentle groomed slope and practice turning. No matter what ski you end up with, you'll be very stuck in your terrain choices unless you learn to turn beyond a snowplow or skate turn. Neither of those turns work very well in most ungroomed snow conditions. If you don't currently own skis, I'd guess you want something like a Classic XC ski in either waxless or waxable version, depending on whether you want to learn to use kick wax or not. Most of these skis are much harder to turn than typical skate skis. I'd get some combi boots to go with that as they offer more support than a skate boot. As you've no doubt learned from the replies, picking gear for making your own tracks is about what compromises you are willing to accept. There is a wide range of gear and opinions and it all depends on what you want to do. Here's a web page that discusses the various options and choices for skis that are called "Backcountry Skis" at least in the USA. http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/Dirt...r/bc-skis.html If you just want to get out in the woods, take a serious look at snowshoes. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBRU/OE2TWTAjn5N/lAQEBvwQAukvAWPyQT0lDQBdIa4W7BIa0Pdq+dtPR fsooASjbR/uJ1NgD1+lSAM4LJGYKTfTmmXdM9HnMXYhWg30M1ZnipUitmBum uEvd zUfQBwH5nsU0aaYUZLZxsBnF2CXW8l3ufEV8XETh6Cl0tJSYHj jamMP26c4+D+iw P/AdhMmocf4= =PEiY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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#22
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Going off trail
Dan wrote:
gr wrote: New in the past couple years wax grip tape also works very well, lasts hundreds of km, has a very wide temp range, and was what finally worked for me and wax. Where do I get some? I used to wax, but don't go quite often enough (and have to contend with Sierra changing conditions) to bother any more, but that sounds like it might work. It would be fun to resurrect the old Fishers! Dan I got some from here I think! http://www.skinnyskis.com/P_Start_Wax_Grip_Tape.aspx gr |
#23
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Going off trail
Peter Clinch wrote
My only specific gear suggestion for boot/binding was NNN BC Peter Clinch wrote earlier, in the post which I replied to light tele gear Sorry looks like I misunderstood. I didn't know that NNN BC was a form of "telemark" gear. So now it looks like Peter was claiming that there are lots of places in the European Alps with interesting ungroomed touring that is suited for NNN BC. I do not agree with that claim. I think rather that most places in the Alps that would have been suitable for such NNN BC touring already normally have a groomed track. Of course you could choose to ski a few meters off to the side of the track just to feel the ungroomed snow. Or further off into some field nearby. I do that sort of thing all the time on my SNS bindings. Why would I want some incompatible SNS BC or NNN BC binding just for that? If I use an SNS binding, then I already own boots I can use with it. Anyway in that situation the NNN BC binding is not getting me into some different area I couldn't reach with my track skis, just a slight variation within the same area -- a variation that _could_ have reached on my SNS binding with a little more careful maneuvering. Yes there are pretty places in the world (e.g. Canada?) with gentle terrain with gentle access -- but no groomed track access, and no "hiking trail" track customarily set by other skiers. I'm only doubting that there's many places like that near Lausanne. I'm simply saying that if you want to purchase some new gear to take you to lots of interesting + pretty places you couldn't get access to by a groomed track, then around Lausanne the best bet is Alpine Touring / Randonnee. Ken |
#24
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Going off trail
Terje Mathisen wrote
Afaik all the fastest traverses of the "Haute Route" has been done with nordic touring skis. Interesting claim. Never heard it before. I assume you mean some route between like Argentiere and Zermatt. How about some details and support? Given the history of this thread, I guess I'd better ask, What's a "nordic touring ski"? Is it NNN BC? What would you guess is the fastest time on "nordic touring skis" from Zermatt to Verbier? it is at least halfway possible to ski flat areas on the telemark skis. Sounds like you do not understand the Scarpa F1 boot -- which is understandable, because it's a really amazing concept. It's easier to tour flat on Scarpa F1s than on lots of telemark boots. The Scarpa F1 basically _is_ a light telemark boot -- without the stupid duckbill on the toe. Instead it has some little hardware thingees that make it ingeniously compatible with an Alpine Touring binding which is lighter than most telemark bindings. "telemark skis"? If there's some point being made about the suitability of the _ski_ to gentle terrain, I will point out that there's no reason why grip wax or klister cannot be applied to the base of a light Alpine Touring ski. And no reason why "kicker skins" cannot be put on Alpine Touring skis. Ken |
#25
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Going off trail
Terje Mathisen wrote
... with sufficient technical ability, a skinny pair with metal edges and NNN BC bindings can do it all. What's this heavy NNN BC stuff, Terje? I thought I remembered you had crossed the Hardangervedda skiing classic on your skating skis? Ken |
#26
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Going off trail
Ken Roberts wrote:
It's easier to tour flat on Scarpa F1s than on lots of telemark boots. The Scarpa F1 basically _is_ a light telemark boot -- without the stupid duckbill on the toe. Light for a plastic telemark boot, certainly, but there are no genuinely light plastic telemark boots, only less heavy ones. "telemark skis"? If there's some point being made about the suitability of the _ski_ to gentle terrain, I will point out that there's no reason why grip wax or klister cannot be applied to the base of a light Alpine Touring ski. Indeed no reason not to, but the fact is you'll be putting more on again sooner because there isn't a wax pocket to push the wax clear of the snow as you glide. What you're suggesting is viable and can certainly be done, but I still don't see it as anything like optimum for what the OP was after. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#27
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Going off trail
Ken Roberts wrote:
So now it looks like Peter was claiming that there are lots of places in the European Alps with interesting ungroomed touring that is suited for NNN BC. I do not agree with that claim. Yet the OP seems to have identified a task that's just a step up from his track skis. I'm just taking him at his word. Of course you could choose to ski a few meters off to the side of the track just to feel the ungroomed snow. Or further off into some field nearby. I do that sort of thing all the time on my SNS bindings. Why would I want some incompatible SNS BC or NNN BC binding just for that? I use my SNS bindings for that too, but having had a fair bit of experience now I can use skill to compensate for the shortcomings of the equipment, and it does have shortcomings. One of the most obvious shortcomings of SNS is the boots when you have to get off the skis: bloody dangerous on ice, for example. I carry a pair of Neos with me if I'm off the beaten track for that sort of thing, but it's a pain and if my non-track typical day was just a /bit/ beyond then I'd sooner use NNN BC than tele or randonee, and if I didn't have the use for heavier gear that I *do* have I'd have plenty of budget for a more optimal setup (and still a hell of a lot of change from F1s, dynafit and superlight edged skis). Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#28
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Going off trail
AES wrote:
As a matter of curiousity, why does NNN BC exist, or why did it come into being, in competition with 3 pin bindings? I suspect it's related to the fact that we've been told for many years that the duckbill toe is On The Way Out... ;-/ SNS/NNN have at least managed to replace 50mm duckbills and 75mm track boots, but the BC hasn't removed duckbills because people persist in buying them ;-) I happen to use NNN BC with waxless edged skiis (Karhu 10th Mountain or the like) for some very low-key backcountry exploring around Lake Tahoe (climb up a ridge or peak, maybe on an unplowed Forest Service road; admire the view; very cautiously ski back down, with hardly any downhill turns), because that's the equipment I was pointed to initially. But the choice in boots seems much more limited for NNN BC than for 3 pin. Boot choice seems to be a function of national importers and local stockists as much as actual production. In the UK it's very hard to find much choice in boots at all: you can have any of the heavy plastic tele, a couple of leather tele and some token track models and not much else (nobody seems to do SNS in the UK now, and Salomon UK don't seem to realise they actually sell nordic gear!). In Alpine areas where people tend to be on tracks for Nordic the BC stuff is there rather than toruing duckbills and is, I think, in large part for those folk that want boots with a decent sole for off the ski. Norway seems to have a relatively good choice in everything, though ofcourse it costs a fortune :-( Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#29
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Going off trail
gr wrote:
Dan wrote: gr wrote: New in the past couple years wax grip tape also works very well, lasts hundreds of km, has a very wide temp range, and was what finally worked for me and wax. Where do I get some? I used to wax, but don't go quite often enough (and have to contend with Sierra changing conditions) to bother any more, but that sounds like it might work. It would be fun to resurrect the old Fishers! Dan I got some from here I think! http://www.skinnyskis.com/P_Start_Wax_Grip_Tape.aspx gr Thanks, I'll give it a try. I hate the sound waxless bases make, though I do like the skis well enough. Dan |
#30
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Going off trail
Ken Roberts wrote:
Terje Mathisen wrote Afaik all the fastest traverses of the "Haute Route" has been done with nordic touring skis. Interesting claim. Never heard it before. I assume you mean some route between like Argentiere and Zermatt. How about some details and support? I have no personal experience of this, which is why I put the name in quotes, but I've been told so by people I trust. OTOH I have my own experience which is that it is perfectly possible to climb up & down _very_ steep mountains in competition xc gear, even if the snow varies between glazed, packed drifts and sudden powder pockets. Yes, you have to either go _very_ slow, which would exhaust you, or just be a good skier willing to take a few falls. For the rest, let's just agree to disagree, OK? Terje -- - "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
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